Is a good track record enough for market maker prop firms/hedge funds?

[DionysusToast]

Hi DionysusToast,

I trade off the daily, 4h and 1h timeframes. I trade 2 strategies both 100% based on TA. Other one is a trend following system and the other is based on price action.

On average I take 2-3 trades / week. Holding time depends on the timeframe the trade is based. From few hours to days.

I trade forex, UK equities and futures. I live in Finland atm.

What is a CTA? Somekind of autited account?

Thanks for the reply

CTA - Commodity Trading Advisor - let's you basically trade other people's money for them.

The way you trade won't suit a lot of prop shops - the frequency is too low and with straight outrights. no hedging and multi-day positions, it might give their risk department a few headaches. Still, there is lots of money out there looking for a return and all sorts of ways to get at it.

Your first port of call is to figure out whether you want to do this as a business, working to attract individual investors or try to get some sort of institutional funding.

If you want to attract individuals, you need to set yourself up with the appropriate legal entity. CTA is American, I don't know if you could apply for that being Finnish but you would almost certainly need to get some sort of Finnish certification too.

To go for institutional money is going to take networking & research - something you appear to have not yet started.

I often quote the case of a friend of mine that was given $100k of fund money to trade - even though he had never placed a single trade in his life. He had worked for a very successful trader and when he left the fund offered him $100k on the off chance that some of the success might have rubbed off.

Of course, my friend wasn't walking in off the street - but all this stuff about it being impossible is nonsense. It's just a matter of developing the right contacts. Something that will take a lot of work.

That or starting up on your own.

 

[zbojnik]

Late-4, Check out fundseeder.com - It looks like a scam at first, but looking closely, I believe it's real. It's run by Jack Schwager, the author of the market wizards books.

I am excited to be a founding partner of Fundseeder.com, the new website whose mission is to identify undiscovered trading talent and link promising traders with seed investors. Jack Schwager

 

[ffsear]

That looks dodgy to me! I have asked Jack on twitter if its real. No mention of it on his official site.

 

[zbojnik]

That looks dodgy to me! I have asked Jack on twitter if its real. No mention of it on his official site.

yeah it does look dodgy. I watched an interview though of him and he talks about it:

http://www.opalesque.tv/hedge-fund-videos/jack-schwager-3/1

 

[ffsear]

ah cool, Whoever designed that site should be fired. Its got that sleazy look to it!

 

[zbojnik]

ah cool, Whoever designed that site should be fired. Its got that sleazy look to it!

Yeah lol.

 

[Late-4]

CTA - Commodity Trading Advisor - let's you basically trade other people's money for them.

The way you trade won't suit a lot of prop shops - the frequency is too low and with straight outrights. no hedging and multi-day positions, it might give their risk department a few headaches. Still, there is lots of money out there looking for a return and all sorts of ways to get at it.

Your first port of call is to figure out whether you want to do this as a business, working to attract individual investors or try to get some sort of institutional funding.

If you want to attract individuals, you need to set yourself up with the appropriate legal entity. CTA is American, I don't know if you could apply for that being Finnish but you would almost certainly need to get some sort of Finnish certification too.

To go for institutional money is going to take networking & research - something you appear to have not yet started.

I often quote the case of a friend of mine that was given $100k of fund money to trade - even though he had never placed a single trade in his life. He had worked for a very successful trader and when he left the fund offered him $100k on the off chance that some of the success might have rubbed off.

Of course, my friend wasn't walking in off the street - but all this stuff about it being impossible is nonsense. It's just a matter of developing the right contacts. Something that will take a lot of work.

That or starting up on your own.

Thanks Dionysys, that makes sense to me.

 

[Late-4]

That fundseeder.com maybe something I am looking for. I will contact them after I get my record and let you know what happened!

 

[zbojnik]

That fundseeder.com maybe something I am looking for. I will contact them after I get my record and let you know what happened!

Good luck!

 

[joselopezde]

Yes - your track record will absolutely help you get a prop position or funding.

Can you tell me what sort of trading you are doing? It does make a difference. How many turns per day, outrights vs spreads, markets, holding times....

I know of 2 prop shops setting up right now and for both I know the people setting them up. As well as the type of trading, what is your physical location?

You should also look into registering as a CTA if you want to solicit individuals for funds.

@DionysusToast which are those two prop shops?

 

[Late-4]

@DionysusToast which are those two prop shops?

Just to let you know I was asked to join a new 'prop' firm about a year ago that was supposed to connect traders through internet and trade the firms money. I joined with a thought that as long as I don't send my money or credit card credentials anywhere I'm safe. So I joined with caution just to see if something good was about to come out of it. It seemed like the guy that ran the whole thing had really something set up. He did months of preparations and had maybe 10 traders with different approaches to the market joined the group. It seemed like a legit thing but all of a sudden I didn't hear from the guy anymore. I don't know if it was scam or the guy just lost faith for the project. At least I didn't lose any money lol!

So be cautious with these internet trading groups and don't send your money/credentials anywhere.

I kind of lost my interest in prop firms since I graduated as a mechanical engineer and have been working for 1,5 years now as an R&D engineer. Still trading of course, and feeling very lucky to have the luxury to trade from work. Trading doesn't take a lot of time, I just scan the charts once in a while. A little over 2 years of profitable trading now. 2 month ago I set up a twitter (@RabbitSignals) with myfxbook and mql5 to automatically follow my progress through MetaTrader. See if I get enough followers, I might go for a signal service.

-Lauri

 

[Late-4]

A profitable track record with decent pro metrics (not my fx book lol) is very valuable.

An old post that got my attention I read the thread again 1,5 years later. I use only myfxbook, mql5 and forex factory to automatically track my MT4 actions. Don't you think those are enough? What do you mean by decent pro metrics?

-Lauri

 

[wallstreet111]

An old post that got my attention I read the thread again 1,5 years later. I use only myfxbook, mql5 and forex factory to automatically track my MT4 actions. Don't you think those are enough? What do you mean by decent pro metrics?

-Lauri

Hi Lauri
Not posted here for a while but i went through the same phase 6 or 7 years ago so thought i'd post.
If you can trade short term & consistently make more than you lose, then you simply need to scale up your positions.
I did this by taking out a loan - rates these days are c3.5% now so very inexpensive.
I traded a small account to the point where my winning trades were averaging roughly double my losing trades for 2 years & i could manage risk correctly.
There is simply no better way to trade than for yourself & if you can trade consistently profitably in a liquid product - scaling up via cheaply borrowed money is the answer.
Any investor who backs you will want more than the very modest 3.5% interest that a loan will cost you, but you need to have absolute confidence in your ability obviously….
Hope this helps.

 

[Late-4]

Hi Lauri
Not posted here for a while but i went through the same phase 6 or 7 years ago so thought i'd post.
If you can trade short term & consistently make more than you lose, then you simply need to scale up your positions.
I did this by taking out a loan - rates these days are c3.5% now so very inexpensive.
I traded a small account to the point where my winning trades were averaging roughly double my losing trades for 2 years & i could manage risk correctly.
There is simply no better way to trade than for yourself & if you can trade consistently profitably in a liquid product - scaling up via cheaply borrowed money is the answer.
Any investor who backs you will want more than the very modest 3.5% interest that a loan will cost you, but you need to have absolute confidence in your ability obviously….
Hope this helps.

Hi Wallstreet,

Glad things are working for you. For me, trading a loan wouldn't work. That would affect my psychology and make do bad decisions. I'm pretty sure I in the end of the month, I would be seeing potential trades where there is none if I was trading a loan and down for the month.

Some people can do this and I really envy those guys!

-Lauri

 

[Uranus]

7 month track record isn't going to get you anywhere. Most prop firms require at least a 1-2 year track record. Hedge Funds 5-20.

 

[rawrschach]

I know for a fact that you can walk into futex with a track record and unless you're doing something stupid like averaging down they will put you on the sim. If your performance matches your record they'll give you a couple of lots to play with.

Hi,

I have a successful live trading track record from the last 7 months. Not a single losing month. I am considering applying to a trading company after I have total of 12 months of successful trading (if I get there).

The reason for wanting to work for a prop firm is to trade with bigger money. I have a couple k's account atm and making around 4-5% a month. I don't have the capital to trade full-time from home and it would take ages for me to get there with my salary.

I have read that prop firms (like futex, optiver) love to do gazillion stages of interviews, speed math, logic tests and my favorite: riddles. Have I really need to go through this crap? I can prove that I can trade successfully, all I need is:

A) an individual investor willing to give me money for trading
B) a trading company.

Are these firms (like futex) taking mainly young sharp guys with no trading experience only, because they see the potential for training them, while the real proven traders go somewhere else?

Thanks, I appreciate every answer very much.

Lauri

 

[rawrschach]

Considering you think you can't trade on a low interest loan from a Finnish bank, reconsider how successful you'll be in a prop shop where someone will be breathing down your neck pushing you to make money. Especially at first. More especially when the risk department forces you to change your risk profile to suit themselves (they only care about their own jobs, of course), making your approach unprofitable in the process and getting you fired.

 

[rawrschach]

Also consider that if you have a low frequency strategy you should expect to sit on the sim for months, after which you should expect to have only a couple of lots to play with for months.

If you have a few thousand now then you're better off trading for yourself. Get a night job and start saving into the account to add margin.

 

[Late-4]

7 month track record isn't going to get you anywhere. Most prop firms require at least a 1-2 year track record. Hedge Funds 5-20.

Hi Uranus,

I have a track record of almost 2 years now. Look at the start date of the thread.

 

[RISTO167]

20 days is enought if you pass their 20 day simtrading programs.
http://www.futuresprofile.com/
https://www.topsteptrader.com/