IG Index - getting greedier and greedier...

[ns1000]

You haven't been reading the 'NFA - Dead Firms Walking' thread then.

Forex in the US was the home of every dodgy tick and tactic in the book of all until the NFA decided to clean it up last year.

I also wholly disagree with your statement that US companies are somehow more trustworthy or necessarily better value than British ones. Some might be, but to condemn a whole nation's industry on the back of your evident dislike of spread betting is bordering on the absurd.

 

[bennie83]

In the UK we are used to (having) to deal with companies and organisations who view their customers as ripe for ripping off. There are exceptions of course, but we are so used to being ripped off in this country we don't even notice it. This applies across most sectors.

In the US, it is (generally speaking) very different. Although companies aim to make serious profits, they are also there to serve their customers, and provide genuine customer service.

I have been trading since '96. The US firms I have dealt with (and continue to do so) offer far better customer service and value for money than the British ones I have had the dealings with - the spreadbetting companies being the biggest joke of all.

I am thinking about opening an account with a US broker such as Interactive Brokers. As a British citizen would my capital be well protected? I note their commissions (US brokers) are a million times better than here. Given your experiences I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[bennie83]

I'm not sure about this thing where Spread Betters want their customers to lose or go broke. They make their money through spreads etc. I can't understand how they make money from people losing and never trading again?

 

[SvenFoster]

I'm not sure about this thing where Spread Betters want their customers to lose or go broke. They make their money through spreads etc. I can't understand how they make money from people losing and never trading again?

If they really wanted everyone to win then they wouldnt give such big leverage.
Since a lot of people open accounts with a couple of hundred quid to try it out the only way to get the dosh is to encourage you to lose. Leverage and lack of knowledge is a great way to lose.

Now if someone with a big pot turns up and knows what they are doing, they will put you on dealer and give you pants quotes and pass your play through to the market. If you try and do this on a short timeframe they get upset.

of course all of this is speculation. Since my experience of SB firms has been great. open account, trade carefully, lose, start to win, things go wrong, spikes/requotes, pants prices/stops not executing and the best bit... close account.
If i get back to longer Timeframes i'll head on back to SB as they will be limited in what they do. till then...

Most people dont make any profit so why worry about tax? in the uk you can have nearly 10k tax free. Why suffer on execution.

 

[bennie83]

If they really wanted everyone to win then they wouldnt give such big leverage.
Since a lot of people open accounts with a couple of hundred quid to try it out the only way to get the dosh is to encourage you to lose. Leverage and lack of knowledge is a great way to lose.

Now if someone with a big pot turns up and knows what they are doing, they will put you on dealer and give you pants quotes and pass your play through to the market. If you try and do this on a short timeframe they get upset.

of course all of this is speculation. Since my experience of SB firms has been great. open account, trade carefully, lose, start to win, things go wrong, spikes/requotes, pants prices/stops not executing and the best bit... close account.
If i get back to longer Timeframes i'll head on back to SB as they will be limited in what they do. till then...

Most people dont make any profit so why worry about tax? in the uk you can have nearly 10k tax free. Why suffer on execution.

So what would you recommend instead of SBs? standard brokers?

 

[Trader333]

I am merely pointing out that IG are squeezing their remaining customers, probably due to falling margins

Why would charging for charts have anything to do with margins ? and I would bet that they post an even more profitable year this year than last. Since the credit crunch started there has been a massive increase in new SB accounts being opened.


Paul

 

[SvenFoster]

So what would you recommend instead of SBs? standard brokers?

I dont recommend anything. I think that there is a place for everyone, SB, brokers,futures,bucketshops.

It obviously depends on what your doing. My experience with 1 SB firm wasnt good maybe the rest are great.

If your into stocks and want to trade more frequently then head to the US brokers or open a futures account.

if your into FX find a retail broker that treats you right.

If you've got a big pot, profitable and trade swing or positionally then SB would probably be a good match.
They are not a good place to learn unless your massivly disiplined and trade less volitile instruments.

People chase the the tax free-ness-ness of SB but aint profitable. whats the point in that?

Simples. JMHO

 

[bennie83]

I dont recommend anything. I think that there is a place for everyone, SB, brokers,futures,bucketshops.

It obviously depends on what your doing. My experience with 1 SB firm wasnt good maybe the rest are great.

If your into stocks and want to trade more frequently then head to the US brokers or open a futures account.

if your into FX find a retail broker that treats you right.

If you've got a big pot, profitable and trade swing or positionally then SB would probably be a good match.
They are not a good place to learn unless your massivly disiplined and trade less volitile instruments.

People chase the the tax free-ness-ness of SB but aint profitable. whats the point in that?

Simples. JMHO

I would like to trade futures (indices) with a decent sized pot, so I guess it would be better to go for a conventional broker? I'm a day trader. Cheers.

 

[Pippppin]

You haven't been reading the 'NFA - Dead Firms Walking' thread then.

Forex in the US was the home of every dodgy tick and tactic in the book of all until the NFA decided to clean it up last year.

I also wholly disagree with your statement that US companies are somehow more trustworthy or necessarily better value than British ones. Some might be, but to condemn a whole nation's industry on the back of your evident dislike of spread betting is bordering on the absurd.

Is it? The "financial services" industry in the UK stinks. During the boom years of the 1980's when the FTSE went up, and up, and up, I had one of those savings plans with a big insurance company. You know the type...£50 a month, and they "invest" it on your behalf etc. I had the policy for 7 years (if I had cashed in "early" they would have stolen a large chunk of my money). I ended up with less than I would have got if I had stuck it in a building society.

It is not that they did not make money on my money. It is that they chose to give me back a fraction of what they made, and kept the rest themselves. What was I going to do about it? Complain to the useless FSA?

Of course, when the market turns sour, as in recent times, the converse does not apply. They do not keep the losses they have made. They take a chunk of your capital instead.

The spreadbetting industry in the UK (which does not exist in the US) is an extension of our ripoff culture. I am not pretending there are never any problems in the US, or sharks do not exist on the other side of the pond, merely that we are so used to being ripped off here we do not even notice any more. Especially in the "financial services" sector.

 

[bennie83]

I was thinking about this Spread Betting issue again and despite some good arguements I'm still finding hard to see why they'd want customers to lose. I've never experienced price spikes that stop people out and from what I can see their prices siimply mirror the underlying. Maybe I'm just looking at it in a different way. It is making wonder if should be with a Spread Betting firm if it has a rip the customer-off attitude.

 

[Pippppin]

I was thinking about this Spread Betting issue again and despite some good arguements I'm still finding hard to see why they'd want customers to lose. I've never experienced price spikes that stop people out and from what I can see their prices siimply mirror the underlying. Maybe I'm just looking at it in a different way. It is making wonder if should be with a Spread Betting firm if it has a rip the customer-off attitude.

bennie83...if you are new to trading, open a small direct market account with a reputable broker. Do your "apprenticeship" in a real trading environment. If you make losses in your first year, and you probably will, you can offset your losses against future gains for tax purposes. Learn to trade in an environment where it is you versus the market, not you versus the market versus the spreadbetting company.

If you succeed, and you have some money to play with, try spreadbetting so you can see for yourself.

Then you can decide the best way forward

 

[foredog]

If you search through the forums there is an open letter from alpari explaining how they get their prices.

They use 5 Market makers and ECNs and take the best from those and they get 1000 quotes a minute, it's all automated so they can't skew the prices.

 

[Pippppin]

If you search through the forums there is an open letter from alpari explaining how they get their prices.

They use 5 Market makers and ECNs and take the best from those and they get 1000 quotes a minute, it's all automated so they can't skew the prices.

they can't skew the prices?

They are a bucket shop. They can manipulate whether you can open a bet, close a bet, and at what price.....

 

[bottomdollar]

I have used City Index, Capital Spreads, Cantor Index, CMC and WorldSpreads besides IgIndex. Igindex are the most reliable and the best platform in my opinion. I like everything they offer and it works. I don't get the feeling that it's a big con unlike the others... I just hope it all remains this way as some of the others started out quite good and they did get greedy... running your stops through when the market prices haven't actually breached, re-quoting prices. However, I never used to ever get requotes through Igindex and I have had a couple in fast moving markets of late.
Can anyone comment on Futures Betting?

Thanks!

 

[jpapin]

hahaha - foredog, if you beleive that, then you are wrong.

Agree 100% with Pippppin!

IG index trading platform is INSTANT and reliable, Alpari is a bucketshop in compariosn (Plus IG is FTSE 250 company, whereas Alapri is a dodgy Russian outfit!) i know where i would rather keep my money with...

 

[foredog]

I was just pointing out how the SB's get thier prices, it's not someone sting there pushing the price around, they take the best bid offer from 5 or more others and because their system recieves so many prices every second it is automated.

TBH i personally feel it wouldn't be cost effective for them to be sitting there all day catching people's stops as that would be quite labour intensive, setting up the system so you're not offering any at the prices you're pushing it down to, then moving the price down 20pts/pips then resetting it, just to nick a couple of £10 per point trades.

Also if they are stop hunting etc, would you not have expected some disgruntled ex-employee to blow the whistle etc, for someone like IG i don't think they'd want the negative publicity that would create, true or not.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

For index prices I know for a fact that for most firms the price is derived from the futures and fair value price and is set automatically.Many times I have felt that they move the market just to take my stop, but they dont .What you never remember is the amount of times it doesnt take your stop or is 1 pt away and turns in your favour. Try trading US shares in quiet periods of the day then you will truely learn what stop hunting is. I saw the market move 100 cents just to take my stop.I looked at the times and sales and yes mine was the only trade at that price.

 

[Trader333]

Try trading US shares in quiet periods of the day then you will truely learn what stop hunting is. I saw the market move 100 cents just to take my stop.I looked at the times and sales and yes mine was the only trade at that price.

Did the underlying market also move by that amount because we are talking about SB companies here and the prices that they quote ?


Paul

 

[Lord Flasheart]

sorry. It was direct access I was refering to. Its never happened to me with SB.

 

[bennie83]

sorry. It was direct access I was refering to. Its never happened to me with SB.

you must have been trading a very illiquid stock?!