If you want to fail as a trader, study TA

[Traduk]

It doesn't eliminate in the favour of your arguement, if anything, the broker makes.

So what is in the 'favour' of the trader?

There are traders who are on the 'make', how do they do it?

I'll give you a clue.

Up and down.

I do not have an argument.

This thread was both long and spoilt by an individual who in the end had nothing of consequence to say. I have no wish to continue it in same manner although that apparently is not a problem for you.

I see you joined today (welcome ). Have a good read of this thread and enjoy the cryptic writings of The Expert but perhaps you don't need to?.

 

[kimo'sabby]

I do not have an argument.

This thread was both long and spoilt by an individual who in the end had nothing of consequence to say. I have no wish to continue it in same manner although that apparently is not a problem for you.

I see you joined today (welcome ). Have a good read of this thread and enjoy the cryptic writings of The Expert but perhaps you don't need to?.

You need this thread. You are angry and confused.

 

[The Expert]

I do not have an argument.

This thread was both long and spoilt by an individual who in the end had nothing of consequence to say. I have no wish to continue it in same manner although that apparently is not a problem for you.

I see you joined today (welcome ). Have a good read of this thread and enjoy the cryptic writings of The Expert but perhaps you don't need to?.

Mr T, I can assure you, I have said plenty of consequence, but, only those with a brain can see beyond the chaff, which, obviously, puts you in the half brain league

Continue to talk your rubbish with others, for, you lot will never help anyone make money, as, that is how it is, for, I know all about you lot and what you can and can not do:cheesy:

:smart:TE:smart:

 

[rathcoole_exile]

i hope you can keep your promise this time
and don't keep coming back again and again like other threads you supposedly "quit"

but I doubt that your overblown ego, which is obviously over-compensating for some serious deficiencies in your life, will permit you to stay away for long ....

well that didn't take long did it ?

 

[wistundra]

the problem with TA is that it's right to often for us to ignore it and
wrong to often for us to rely on it.

kinda like weather forcasting isn't it ?

 

[kimo'sabby]

the problem with TA is that it's right to often for us to ignore it and
wrong to often for us to rely on it.

kinda like weather forcasting isn't it ?

TA is never wrong, traders can be wrong, but not TA.

 

[The Expert]

TA is never wrong, traders can be wrong, but not TA.

And you think you are a trader

I think you have been watching too many cowboy and indian movies:cheesy:

 

[kimo'sabby]

And you think you are a trader

I think you have been watching too many cowboy and indian movies:cheesy:

Cowboys!?

You must be John Wayne!

Why won't you post a trade? I'm not even interested if it's right or wrong, just post one. Buying and selling penny shares with your redundancy/pension is fine, nothing to be ashamed about.

Come on, do yourself a favour, and give us a peep at what you are really all about.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Such an immense fear of posting one trade....that is not the mindset of an expert. Tut tut!

 

[timsk]

TA is never wrong, traders can be wrong, but not TA.

Hi kimo'sabby,
I think I know what you're driving at but, as it stands, I think your statement requires clarification. TA is subjective and does not, can not and never will contain a set of hard and fast prescriptive rules that state 'if conditions A and B are met, then condition C will result 100% of the time'. That's Holy Grail territory. The best it can do is to say 'if conditions A and B are met, then condition C is likely to result X% of the time'. In a sense, TA can be wrong because, as traders, we can all point to examples where the theory suggests something should happen - yet it doesn't - based on our understanding and application of the discipline. That's slightly different from the trader being wrong. If the trader adheres to and executes their strategy perfectly, such that the losing trades are 'good' trades - entered, managed and exited for the 'right' reasons, then I think it's reasonable to say in such instances that the TA failed, rather than the trader. If the strategy is profitable overall and the trader would take the same trade again given the information available at the time, then I think I would agree with the sentiment in wistrunda's post that TA can indeed be 'wrong'. Where I agree with you is that my understanding and application of TA will be different to yours. So, my losing trades that are 'right' according my understanding and application of TA may be 'wrong' according your understanding and application of TA.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

timsk, kimo'sabby,

There's always a lot of talk about whether TA "works" or "doesn't work" or is "right" or " wrong". To my mind it's an incidental question and diverts attention from the primary focus which should be the trade(s) itself. However anyone chooses to get into a trade - TA or not - it is how they have set it up in terms of risk (money management) and how they manage the trade(s) once in it that really sorts out the good from the indifferent over the long term.

The decisions that need to be made in managing the trade may be informed by TA but it's the trade itself that matters, not the TA. (If you see what I mean )

just my tuppence

jon

 

[kimo'sabby]

Mmmm,

I'm absolutely sure it's possible to make money from a chart without even having price on the chart, just indicators. What's the point of having price on the chart if it's not being used?

 

[kimo'sabby]

What are the two most basic elements that a chart reader needs? I'd say it was time and direction, this can give the chart trader enough for a basic gauge, the rest is as Jon says...management.

Price used to be king years ago, now it's old hat, a technical dinosaur, not even needed. Lol!

 

[wackypete2]

Who even looks at price anymore? Thats so yesterday. I just use my latest greatest indicator: SuperOscillatingTripleSmoothedDynamicFourTimeframeEMA.

Eventually I hope to be profitable with it.

Peter

 

[dealer911]

I like the title of this thread! If you want to fail as a trader, study TA..
I think there could be some truth in this statement.. altough it should read If you want to fail as a trader, study only TA and dont bother to even look at the fundementals!
the attraction of T.A is that you dont need to bother doing any homework.. it's all there in the price,volume etc.. why not study both ?.why do people feel the need to sit in 1 camp or the other ??

 

[jon1971]

I like the title of this thread! If you want to fail as a trader, study TA..
I think there could be some truth in this statement.. altough it should read If you want to fail as a trader, study only TA and dont bother to even look at the fundementals!
the attraction of T.A is that you dont need to bother doing any homework.. it's all there in the price,volume etc.. why not study both ?.why do people feel the need to sit in 1 camp or the other ??

Why over complicate the issue?

If TA doesn't work, or rather only works on a statistical percentage of trades, then I think that most of us here agree that it should be used with very rigid trade execution and pre-defined risk management.

Why then make life harder for yourself?

Fundamentals are of course very useful in a long term investment strategy, but really to what extent do they affect short term price action?

Especially for the novice trader, what you want is as rigid a system as possible which removes subjective interpretation.

THIS IS HOW I SEE THE USE OF TECHNICAL ANALYSIS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting

 

[The Expert]

OK then, let me try again!

When we say "to fail as a trader, study TA", we mean the TA rubbish that is available in all the rubbish books, which are just copies of more rubbish that was written many years ago.

People are not stupid, and, every time you place a trade you must have a bias, otherwise you are really a fool and should not be gambling at all.

If you now have a bias, you must have made a conscious decision as to what might happen next.

It is the process of making this decision that is the KEY, and, you know you have the process optimized if you are making money each and every day, week or month, depending on your trading time frame/s.

With that, if you fail to develop the correct process, which is very easily verified by your bank account balance, then, you will never make it as a profitable trader, full stop.

TE

 

[rathcoole_exile]

what a load of bollox.
anyone who thinks he has some sort of insight into the day's bias is a FOOL

the kind of FOOL that clings on to losing positions simply because they believe they know what the bias is.

Instead of having NO bias, and letting the market auction activity dictate the action -
IN and stay IN
or
IN, OUT; IN, OUT; IN, OUT
ad infinitum
until one finally reaches
IN and stay IN

 

[jon1971]

IN and stay IN
or
IN, OUT; IN, OUT; IN, OUT
ad infinitum
until one finally reaches
IN and stay IN

Agree, when you put on a trade based on your chart pattern, indicator signal or whatever analysis methodology you use. Don't have ANY expectation of movement, bias or anything, you cannot predict with certainty what the market will do, at least on an individual trade-by-trade basis. If you think you can, then you are kidding yourself, you will move your stops and you will sit there suffering emotional pain because the market is not doing what you thought it would do (you never knew). The market doesn't care about your analysis, it will do what it's going to do, all you can do is manage the risk in your position and execute your entries & exits impeccably.

It only takes one fund manager to decide to drive price in a certain direction, coz he wants to run stops, create an instant pool of demand or supply and then dump his huge position. (A,B,C patterns and all the times your stop got hit, then price reversed and smoked or tanked in the original direction of your trade).

This happens more often than you probably realise and it has got absolutely ZERO to do with your chart analysis.

That is an example of an individual operating, TA is not the study of individual psychology, but it IS the study of mass psychology.

Moreover mass human psychology has not changed. Sure the way people place trades has changed, we now use high speed fibre-optics rather than speaking to a broker over the phone, but fear and greed sure as heck haven't changed. So even if today's TA methods are just ripped off from stuff that was developed years ago, it still works because what it is analysing has not changed.

Rathcoole, the one thing I would question in your statement is your use of the words, "ad-infinitum" I would suggest trade a sample size and re-evaluate your signals at the end of each sample.

 

[Trader333]

Based on all the conversations, study and everything else trading related that I have had involvement with, I am now at the point where, as I understand more, I seem to know less and at this rate I will soon understand everything about nothing.


Paul