I Stopped Using Stops

Wicked_Daddy said:
That's a bummer. And each would have been profitable if held a bit longer. That's gotta be frustrating. Did you get some winners?


I don't trade the DAX. But I trade the DIA and the QQQ occasionally using a formula of price returning to it's average when it has moved away in extreme counter trend movements. I can't tell what your MA is but it looks like were taking counter trend positions on a 1 minute chart. Man, more power to you! I never go counter trend on a micro time frame, unless range has been exceeded to the extreme or the momentum has gone flat. Even then, there are easier ways to make a buck.
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The thing is, it wasnt a bummer or frustrating. They were just 3 trades, that closed out - . The other 19 were + . They are the same with the exception of the result.
The point I was trying to make is that of a possible -106 that could have been taken on those 3 particular trades, I managed to book -19.5 .
Also it doesnt matter that they were losses, it matters that they were closed at a place that was favourable to me.
I know that today prices came back to higher levels than all of them but they may not have, and theres no way of knowing. 14 day ago dax was some 1300 plus points higher than it is now, would you still want those now? I agree with tar here, unless you are trading sub 1 to 1 you risk being carried out on a stretcher if everything is aimed at hold till profitable.

Re being countertrend.
Sure, how else can you find value? In any time frame, any instrument. To me its all the same.
 
tar said:
Its a commercial system with paid live subcribers .
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So, you are paying someone else for their ideas? Why would you do that? The picture said "hypothetical performance". Do someone actually trade or is someone selling a hypothetical performance package? :confused:
 
hhiusa said:
So, you are paying someone else for their ideas? Why would you do that? The picture said "hypothetical performance". Do someone actually trade or is someone selling a hypothetical performance package? :confused:
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Who is paying ? Others are paying him not me i am not a subscriber , his performace results are public he sends live signals to subscribers and autotraders from the platform . Its a regulatory requirement to add this "hypothetical performance" disclaimer .
 
tar said:
Who is paying ? Others are paying him not me i am not a subscriber , his performace results are public he sends live signals to subscribers and autotraders from the platform . Its a regulatory requirement to add this "hypothetical performance" disclaimer .
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Alright. Why is it a regulatory requirement to post "hypothetical performance" if he is actually making those returns?

I did not say that you were paying him. I asked why someone would pay him for this.
 
hhiusa said:
Alright. Why is it a regulatory requirement to post "hypothetical performance" if he is actually making those returns?

I did not say that you were paying him. I asked why someone would pay him for this.
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There are a lot of traders that would rather pay someone else to do their work then to do it themselves. The majority want the perceived easiest way to making money. They want to ride on someone else's supposedly proven method and (for reasons I can't understand) trust them with their money.

This is not much different than putting your money in a mutual fund and trusting a group of traders to grow it for you.

I have had people tell me that what I do is professional gambling. They think that any type of stock market trading (they include forex, etc in their limited view) is gambling. And I don't blame them. The vast majority lose money at trading because they treat it no differently than a player at a craps table. But my response is to ask if they have a retirement account that is invested in mutual funds (the stock market). The answer is always yes. Do they realize that their money is being "managed" by a group of traders who are speculating (gambling) on the future value of companies and market direction? This is perceived as perfectly acceptable to most people.

So pimping out your trading method to someone who wants to pay you to trade for them is probably a good way to pay for your trading habits, especially if you're not that good at it. It seems the lazy majority is ready to pay for that thing called hope.
 
tar said:
Re options he can protect each trade with OTM options ... but its not a solution .
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One of the best strategy is to buy long-term 3-4 years out puts or calls on commodities or FX that are overextended in their price move.

For example buy call options on WTI crude oil once it reaches 25 USD per barrel. It would be a very good asymmetric risk-reward trade.
 
Trading without stop loss can lead you towards heavy loss, in case the market moves in the opposite direction as expected and continue to do so.
 
mcrlogitech said:
Trading without stop loss can lead you towards heavy loss, in case the market moves in the opposite direction as expected and continue to do so.
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So you're saying a stop loss works by stopping losses. I think everyone who knows the meaning of the word stop and the meaning of the word loss understands what stop loss means and therefore what its for.

But if you've nothing better to do please could you increase our knowledge as to door kn0b, stop c0ck and pancake t0sser?
 
tomorton said:
. . . But if you've nothing better to do please could you increase our knowledge as to door kn0b, stop c0ck and pancake t0sser?
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Good game Tom - can I play!
By any chance, would they be synonyms for banker, hanker and tanker?
 
Wow, I had no idea this thread was still active. I don't post here much anymore... too busy trading without stops!
 
darktone said:
On the contrary, I see the other way, I accept fully:-

Ive no idea what the market will do next.
The market can do anything at any time.
My risk is my size x anything can happen.
That I know nothing.

-------------------------------

Two traders, both buying.

The markets at 500
Trader 1 has bought a line of 20 units at 500 with a stop at 480.
Trader 2 has stack 20 limits strung out down to 300.

The next price is 400!

Which trader has more realistic idea about what the can do and what risk they are actually at?
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I posted about what happened to me yesterday. It was not, too, serious and I got my money back afterwards. The reason for that was Windows Update Time. It took 50 minutes when I did not expect it to.

It can be anything. What about the fat fingers GBP, this morning?

My problem is where to put the stop. Because I might not get stopped but price may not go back into profit, in any case. and take all day to do it. So, time is lost, as well.
 
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