Greece may exit the Euro ?

[Splitlink]

The eurozone will not exist in 5 years. It is a game that has already ended.

That's quite a prediction. Can anyone studying for a career at a university say whether he'll be following his career in 5 years?

 

[Pat494]

The French and Germans treat the EU as theirs.
Why they won't even consider the vital reforms needed to make it a fairer and more internationally competitive place, I don't know. The Tories who are likely to be the next Govt here have to honour their pledge for a referendum on Britain's continued presence. The likely result is to leave imho. What a wasted opportunity, I feel. The hard work has been done and the members aren't very happy.

Cameron was noticeably absent in the talks in Moscow recently about The Ukraine. Nato crowding into Russia's backyard is a recipe for major problems. They should have honoured the referendum in Eastern Ukraine and let it go.

The EU parliament seems superfluous as all the major decisions are being made by Hollande and Merkel.

 

[amazingfx]

Of course, if Greece doesn't leave the eurozone would be just because they reach an agreement with Merkel, the rest of countries has not much to say about this, as always. This is how EU works.

 

[Atilla]

Of course, if Greece doesn't leave the eurozone would be just because they reach an agreement with Merkel, the rest of countries has not much to say about this, as always. This is how EU works.

No it isn't. All countries have veto rights.

Without Spain, Italy, France and Portugal and all the other countries Germany would not be much on its own. Including the constantly moaning UK which does have a big say and is listened to by the others when she has something meaningful to say.

However, as with the largest contribution and best economy, along with the fact - German's are good at managing, it's a tribute to have natural leaders.

Point being rest do have a say. Nothing stopping them leaving if they want to. Let them manage their own exits and economies and have done with it.

 

[2be]

No it isn't. All countries have veto rights.

Without Spain, Italy, France and Portugal and all the other countries Germany would not be much on its own. Including the constantly moaning UK which does have a big say and is listened to by the others when she has something meaningful to say.

However, as with the largest contribution and best economy, along with the fact - German's are good at managing, it's a tribute to have natural leaders.

Point being rest do have a say. Nothing stopping them leaving if they want to. Let them manage their own exits and economies and have done with it.

Socialism has never been good for Europe, and indeed for the rest of the world too.
It certainly is not going to be any different this time around, why should it.
Socialism is a well proven path to ruin and pain, once again it looks this lesson has not been learned.
Aa far a Europe is concerned, sadly lot of hard work has been destroyed, and is being continually undermined and destroyed in Brussels by the appointed butchers of common sense.

 

[Atilla]

Socialism has never been good for Europe, and indeed for the rest of the world too.
It certainly is not going to be any different this time around, why should it.
Socialism is a well proven path to ruin and pain, once again it looks this lesson has not been learned.
A lot of hard work has been destroyed, and is being continually undermined and destroyed in Brussels by the appointed butchers of common sense.

Beg to differ. After fascism and capitalism socialism did much to drive distribution of incomes, raising of living standards and much better society to live in.

Europe is the place to be at and name another if not the case.

Any other half decent place like the US, Auzzi land or NZ or HK etc are all off-shoots from Europe and socialism to considerable extent with similar policies.

We need balance either way.

Happiest countries...

 

[Pat494]

Socialism used to be about fair distribution of the country's wealth until Blairism ( sucking up to the rich ) came along. The Union bosses now live in the lap of luxury in rent free mansions paid for by the long suffering workers ( Scargil, Crowe etc. ). The very word FAIR seems to have been dropped by Labour.
The other extreme Capitalism is most unfair as the rich hog ever more to themselves ( my next door neighbour now has over 1,000 acres and counting).

 

[Atilla]

Socialism used to be about fair distribution of the country's wealth until Blairism ( sucking up to the rich ) came along. The Union bosses now live in the lap of luxury in rent free mansions paid for by the long suffering workers ( Scargil, Crowe etc. ). The very word FAIR seems to have been dropped by Labour.
The other extreme Capitalism is most unfair as the rich hog ever more to themselves ( my next door neighbour now has over 1,000 acres and counting).

There is a strange disparity here...

The rich are getting richer with the poor, poorer. Can be be debated if this is a valid perception or not.

The well off paying less tax whilst the poor getting more benefits. This is also a perception and is open to debate.

We have a polarisation of two extremes with the brunt of the tax burden falling on a shrinking middle income working popullation with an aging popullation who don't pay tax and live soooo much longer.


Solution seems to be get foreign workers in to supress inflationary pressures and wage growth whilst boosting the young popullation with foreign births accounting to 20% of all births in the UK. I suspect this is the same response Europe wide.


Can see both sides of the fence. However, as soon as one mentions raising taxes all hell breaks out.

Looking at some of the happiest countries, highest being in Northern Europe also have some of the highest taxes too and much better distribution of incomes.


People tend to look from their own perspectives.

 

[Pat494]

The Americans brain wash their poor to keep quiet, with the American dream. They have made Socialism and FAIR into dirty words spoken only by their opponents.

The Russians are in a mental chaos over this philosophy problem after 70 years of Communism and have just discovered Capitalism, or grabbing state assets cheaply. With the latter came the ills of corruption and greed.

 

[alexaherself]

Looking at some of the happiest countries, highest being in Northern Europe also have some of the highest taxes too and much better distribution of incomes.

This certainly seems to be so. Norway and Denmark spring to mind.

But let's not forget, too, that those are low-population countries (by comparison with most of the rest of Europe and the Western world), and this may well be a very significant factor. What works well in Norway with its population of about 5 million isn't necessarily going to be viable or practicable in countries with large multiples of that population number and density.

 

[Atilla]

This certainly seems to be so. Norway and Denmark spring to mind.

But let's not forget, too, that those are low-population countries (by comparison with most of the rest of Europe and the Western world), and this may well be a very significant factor. What works well in Norway with its population of about 5 million isn't necessarily going to be viable or practicable in countries with large multiples of that population number and density.

Yep agree, however, imagine what could be done if the same model is applied to countries with 50+m popullations or even 100+m???

Imagine all that extra-happiness with a greater workforce paying higher taxes. As a % of those needing help likely to be considerably less.

Oh dear - I now have got this sound in mi head...

 

[Atilla]

I'm on a roll guys - just thought of another BIG important consideration...

Reflecting on the Northern Europeans who have slightly less pop., than Greece but pay so much more tax and are so much happier?

I would go as far as to say given the climate and need to stay warm and cheery compared to glorious sunny Greece and its food and culture, the sea I would have expected events to be the other way around.

There's a key argument in favour of higher taxes.


Don't all shout at once now :cheesy:

 

[2be]

I wander how many people were offered a good job by a poor man?

Please also remember that Hitler, Mussolini, and other Nazis were above all else socialists, and that is precisely what all of them proclaimed to be.
We are all in big mess when "distribution" which can be widely misinterpreted, though totally politically correct is much treasured and put far above "generating" wealth by organised human activity.

It comes with great ease to print money, which is "legal" but nevertheless "illegitimate" in a sense that it has not been generated by wealth creation.
At that same time it comes so easy to tax, and tax again by the government/s any activity that is barely producing some wealth.
Please do not think that I am happy with tax avoidance, but I still have spread betting acc, wander how many "socialists" have them also :whistling
If one is so committed to pay all the possible taxes, why one would have a spread betting account?
I neither hold the view that money and capital are the most important things in live, some love money which they have (thought probably never enough) and others love money which they do not have but still desire it to be distributed to them. Tax is gathering, not wealth generating activity, distribution so loved by socialists, is also not generating any wealth.
What happens when we are so busy and occupied by gathering and distribution, and careless about generating wealth?
What happens if there is nobody to be taxed but the crowds are waiting to be distributed to? Mountain of national debt is being born.:-0:idea: TAX MORE:idea::idea::idea:

Entitlements to be distributed towards are becoming more important that a healthy and natural human desire to do things better and improve the lives of given individual/s.
The current situation promotes the unhealthy way of "victim mentality" upon which the politically correct build citadels of entitlement/s, the problem comes when affordability is mentioned.
It is worthwhile to be aware of Davy Crockett's quote," Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."

Keeping things in balance and agreeable to common sense is likely to be of more usefulness rather that defend undefendable.
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself." by Thomas Jefferson

 

[Pat494]

Looking at some of the happiest countries, highest being in Northern Europe also have some of the highest taxes too and much better distribution of incomes.


.

Just had a peek at the most unhappy countries, as judged by the suicide rates.
Greenland is the worst while the Carribean countries are amongst the lowest. Yet they come to the UK ? which is about middling. Strange really.

With travel now being easy, the old may migrate off to the sunny , stable countries more and the young, eager for work, come to the industrialised ones.

The jihaddis find fulfilment in The Middle East fighting. Just goes to show how nutty humans are sometimes I suppose.

Probably don't want to work in the warm, sunny countries like Greece. Their young could come North while our old migrate South ? A lot of elderly and work shy rich used to live in places like Monaco before the War.

 

[Pat Riley]

Greenland? Population the size of Enfield it's bound ta skew the data surely? Plus living in a country which has about 45 minutes of sunlight a year and which has a capital named Nuuk. You're expecting the mushroom cloud ta appear any old moment. I'd probably top meself too.

It's true about the Caribbean though. Whenever I get depressed I fly off in me private jet to me private Caribbean island.

 

[Pat494]

Greenland? Population the size of Enfield it's bound ta skew the data surely? Plus living in a country which has about 45 minutes of sunlight a year and which has a capital named Nuuk. You're expecting the mushroom cloud ta appear any old moment. I'd probably top meself too.

It's true about the Caribbean though. Whenever I get depressed I fly off in me private jet to me private Caribbean island.

Got a spare seat Pat ( great name ) ?

 

[2be]

Whom are they kidding again!
Why should poor Germans pay the rich Greeks?
Another disaster prepared by the "innocent" do gooders full of best wishes with nothing but wind in their pockets and" Das Capital" dusted in their brains.
Only some Greeks have fallen for it, nobody else is so stupid any more.
Current Greek government is an embarrassment to common sense, they seem to descent either eons to early or eons too late from the mount of Olympus. They do not fit to this present world too well.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ufakis-s-wings-as-it-reorganizes-bailout-team

 

[Splitlink]

Whom are they kidding again!
Why should poor Germans pay the rich Greeks?
Another disaster prepared by the "innocent" do gooders full of best wishes with nothing but wind in their pockets and" Das Capital" dusted in their brains.
Only some Greeks have fallen for it, nobody else is so stupid any more.
Current Greek government is an embarrassment to common sense, they seem to descent either eons to early or eons too late from the mount of Olympus. They do not fit to this present world too well.uk

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ufakis-s-wings-as-it-reorganizes-bailout-team

It's a popularist party. It was founded because most Greeks are desperate.

In the British press, yesterday, we heard that there are 13 new billionaires in the uk, this year. Apart from that the average wealth of the very rich has doubled?

Well, there are a lot of Brits who are very resentful about that, I'll bet. The Greeks are the same.

I doubt that this new Greek party will get much out of Europe but the man in the street had to give it a try.

In Spain, we are a bit better off, but not much. This government will be out at the next election or, at best, will have to pact with one of the others. Heaven knows what lies ahead but the man in the street will try anything new. We have 24% of the workforce unemployed, at present.

 

[2be]

It's a popularist party. It was founded because most Greeks are desperate.

In the British press, yesterday, we heard that there are 13 new billionaires in the uk, this year. Apart from that the average wealth of the very rich has doubled?

Well, there are a lot of Brits who are very resentful about that, I'll bet. The Greeks are the same.

I doubt that this new Greek party will get much out of Europe but the man in the street had to give it a try.

In Spain, we are a bit better off, but not much. This government will be out at the next election or, at best, will have to pact with one of the others. Heaven knows what lies ahead but the man in the street will try anything new. We have 24% of the workforce unemployed, at present.

It is a sad reality and many missed opportunities.
Wealth is to be managed well, whoever its owner is.
It happens that private wealth is managed better that a common wealth or a national wealth, take as example the UK gold reserves which used to be. Only a mad man would say it was great to sell the UK gold, and that at a lowest possible price. I wander if any private owner would sell it in that manner. But as it was "ours" so who cares. Such an act of total carelessness and irresponsibility. That same party is asking again to entrust the economy to them, what a joke.
I also do believe that rich and affluent should be good stewards of their wealth, talents and time, and that include responsibility to assist the genuine job seekers in providing employment opportunities, as many of them do in spite of the tax collector's continues efforts to exterminate them , slow them down, or simply cause them to close their shop and possibly emigrate.
Personally I have experienced the latest and can understand the frustrations of many able individuals who find it increasingly difficult to operate their businesses.
Socialists are keen to distribute wealth they do not posses,which apparently they cannot and are not able to generate, and when their goal of everybody having the same nothing is finally reached, they complain and everybody without a job agree with them in the common misery, forgetting that they have destroyed the job creating environment. Jobs are mainly created by the gifted individuals who by hard work might achieve and have more resources than nomenclature allows. This is tragic in every sense, but political correctness reigns undisturbed.

 

[Pat494]

All prospective MPs should have to take a lie detector test.
. Regardless what the sprouts in Brussells say.