Everybody hurts...sometimes...

[spreader_legger]

I thought that in Mr Chart's superb thread, you mentioned you wern't even profitable intraday trading his method

Consequently, I hardly think that you would be in the best position to give advice on this matter

Hi BS,
I'm afraid I'm not sold on this argument either.
By implication, if a longer term timeframe is better in as much as there's a greater probability of success - then all of us ought to knock this trading lark on the head and become long term buy and hold investors. We all want to maximise profits in the quickest and easiest way possible. None of us are deliberately going to chose a harder route to consistent profitability - if there's an easier and more direct route that we can take. After all, none of us are masochists, right?

To the best of my knowledge, there's only anecdotal 'evidence' to suggest that the fast short term players aren't as successful (or lose more than) the slower longer term ones. Clearly, the nano second scalpers doing hundreds - if not thousands - of round turns each day are in a class of their own and need state of the art kit and the best feeds etc., etc. Leaving those peeps aside, I see no real reason why the typical (whatever that is) retail day trader doesn't stand the same chance of success as the typical retail swing or position trader. Each style has inherent characteristics, but I'm not aware of one having inherent advantages or disadvantages favouring the slower style in preference to the faster one. As always IMO, it's horses for courses, based on the style, character and objectives of the individual trader. Personally, I can't abide swing trading and, unsurprisingly, I'm lousy at it, and I take my hat off to those of you who are any good at it!

Tim.

 

[MrGecko]

Toast, why don't you just keep quoting make believe buddies you conjure up out of thin air to bolster up your nonexisting arguments, while I keep quoting real life people with verifiable track records who know about moving size in the real world, some of whom are even on this board.

I have never seen you write anything even remotely worthwhile reading, which really makes sense from someone who claims to daytrade yet doesn't believe in technical analysis, which really should make putting a danger sign on all your posts mandatory as everything you post here is just seriously misleading nonsense, a classic case of attention deficit disorder coupled with a total disability to see the woods for the trees.

That's a bit rich coming from you, don't you think?

 

[DionysusToast]

Toast, why don't you just keep quoting make believe buddies you conjure up out of thin air to bolster up your nonexisting arguments, while I keep quoting real life people with verifiable track records who know about moving size in the real world, some of whom are even on this board.

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is?

Let's put in $5K each - we'll get Timsk to hold it. I trust the fella.

I'll take Gary AKA Rathcoole_exile from this board to one of the trading rooms so he can chat with the fund guys and see part of the setup. I'll do this within 5 days of Timsk getting the funds - as long as Rath is available. He'll also go over the things they look at when trading. It will be a revelation to see all the things they are not using.

If you want to come over yourself or you want to nominate someone to come and see, then that is fine too. Also - if you have another way to have the money held, I'm fine.

If after 10 days, I haven't taken someone to meet the fund guys - you can keep the cash. If I have, I'll keep the cash.

Of course, if $5K is a bit rich for you, I will happily lower the stake.

I have never seen you write anything even remotely worthwhile reading, which really makes sense from someone who claims to daytrade yet doesn't believe in technical analysis, which really should make putting a danger sign on all your posts mandatory as everything you post here is just seriously misleading nonsense, a classic case of attention deficit disorder coupled with a total disability to see the woods for the trees.

Coming from you, I take this as a compliment.

The fact is that I have different views from you, which are obviously not the same as the books you have been reading.

I bring these views to the forum and I debate them. Sometimes I come off as being extremely egotistical & arrogant (no, really, I do). I put this down to my love for winding people up :whistling

You bring textbook views here and cut & paste. To be honest, I'd be horrified if you agreed with anything I said.

Still - real people making real money that don't write books are making money daytrading without any oscillators, fibs, candlestick patterns, bollingers or MACDs.

I hope this helps.

 

[squall321]

omgggg why don't you just gets your cocks out now and settle it

happy birthday jebus

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Because I've got the worst pl but the biggest cok so the competition is always redundant.

 

[BSD]

Dan Zanger (who turned 10 k into 42 million in two years) holds over days, because anything below that and he can't enter positions large enough to make it worth his while:

"Dan: I mostly use daily charts. You just can't buy 70000 shares off of a 5 minute chart. Most institutions don't use 5 minute charts, they are using 30 or 60 minute and certainly daily charts."

http://www.chartpattern.com/cf/image...world-2010.pdf



Couple of good reads here from real life Dan who provided Forbes with his tax statements to prove that he's the real deal:

http://www.chartpattern.com/media.html

Toast buddy get a life lol, like Socrates you are just one gigantic waste of time who contributes absolutely nothing of substance here, only misleading nonsense.

Unlike you I don't invent people, nor do I care about people who have allegedly made a couple of million, heck daytrading Marty Schwartz did that, my entire point you aren't comprehending is that I am talking about the TOP performers in our field who make BILLIONS, Schwartz tried that but couldn't get his short term trading to work when trading size in the hedge fund he founded, as obviously the fact is that you cannot trade size off of short term time frames, as people who are walking the talk like Dan Zanger or our very own twi who is at a hedge fund or GammaJammer who heads a bank fx desk will readily verify.

Just pure common sense anyway.

Can't believe I'm wasting time on this, no wonder a lot of good posters and above real traders doing size keep disappearing from boards, the bs factor is simply way too high.

 

[BSD]

In the face of all evidence to the contrary Toast holds the ludicrous belief that technical analysis doesn''t work yo, well while he's not getting that trading is just a probability game others simply get a move on and make money, Dan Zanger turned 10k into 42 million in two years using nothing but the simplest technical analysis in the form of chart patterns, holding trades for as long as they are trending up, understanding that short term time frames aren't what makes you really rich, and that you cannot trade size off of them anyway.

Paul Tudor Jones thinks daytrading is a losing game.

Our very own bank trader GammaJammer is saying the exact same thing:

" Don't trade 1 min or 5 min charts, and ditch 99% of those indicators and concentrade on price action plus basic support / resistance initially. Thats my advice

GJ"
__________________


So who you gonna believe has his head screwed on straight, guys doing size, or some invented friend who allegedly made a couple of million.

Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest respect for real people who verifiably made several million in their career, but it's all comparative, and in our field the benchmarks make billions, not millions, and you'll never get there if you get all your experience daytrading off 1 or 5 minute charts.

 

[BSD]

Bank trader GammaJammer again:

but rest assured far more serious traders trading serious money use 4h charts than 15 min ones. Fact! (as David Brent would say).

GJ

 

[new_trader]

Would you like to put your money where your mouth is?

Let's put in $5K each - we'll get Timsk to hold it. I trust the fella.

I'll take Gary AKA Rathcoole_exile from this board to one of the trading rooms so he can chat with the fund guys and see part of the setup. I'll do this within 5 days of Timsk getting the funds - as long as Rath is available. He'll also go over the things they look at when trading. It will be a revelation to see all the things they are not using.

If you want to come over yourself or you want to nominate someone to come and see, then that is fine too. Also - if you have another way to have the money held, I'm fine.

If after 10 days, I haven't taken someone to meet the fund guys - you can keep the cash. If I have, I'll keep the cash.

Of course, if $5K is a bit rich for you, I will happily lower the stake.



Coming from you, I take this as a compliment.

The fact is that I have different views from you, which are obviously not the same as the books you have been reading.

I bring these views to the forum and I debate them. Sometimes I come off as being extremely egotistical & arrogant (no, really, I do). I put this down to my love for winding people up :whistling

You bring textbook views here and cut & paste. To be honest, I'd be horrified if you agreed with anything I said.

Still - real people making real money that don't write books are making money daytrading without any oscillators, fibs, candlestick patterns, bollingers or MACDs.

I hope this helps.

Wow, fist time I visit in a while and who should I see posting his usual text book copy & paste crap... BSD! I doubt BSD will rise to your challenge DionysusToast because I don’t believe BSD is even a real trader. All he can do is quote various traders from this site or excerpts from trading books that he clings to like grim death. He can’t talk about trading in his own words because he doesn’t trade, simple as that. Now he is attacking and attempting to discredit the things you write about trading just like he did to me and SOCRATES.

All I can say is that I am glad I ignored everything BSD says and has ever said and I advise you do the same DionysusToast.

I will follow this thread or any thread in which BSD rises to your trading challenge, but I doubt he will. He hasn’t the guts to put his money where his mouth is.

 

[new_trader]

Socrates who lost money in the trading challenge he entered, newtrader and Toast haha, all of the same ilk, losers posting nothing but smoke, mirrors and BS, because they don't grasp the success relevant factors, that trading is simply a probability game where the only ways of making money directionally are buying low, selling high, or buying high, selling higher, that's it, no rocket science involved there anywhere as Dan Zanger amply proves.

Anyway, I am definitely not gonna waste time on this ludicrous joke of a "chalenge" as it's completely irrelevant, my point, corroborated by common sense, people who verifiably trade size like Dan Zanger or GammaJammer or also exbanker meanreversion or other hedge fund managers here is that A: the big money is made in the big moves, B: you cannot trade size off of short term time frames because of liquidity issues.

5000 bucks is supposed to be size ???

Jesus I really feel I am talking with complete, utter and total loonies.

Unbelievable.

Donate the money to charity if it is small change to you. Anyway, I knew you wouldn't put your money where your mouth is when it comes to trading. You are all bluster and no substance, just like I thought. Stop talking about your forum 'buddies' and prove that YOU are a trader.

 

[BSD]

Socrates who lost money in the trading challenge he entered, newtrader and Toast haha, all of the same ilk, losers posting nothing but smoke, mirrors and BS, because they don't grasp the success relevant factors, that trading is simply a probability game where the only ways of making money directionally are buying low, selling high, or buying high, selling higher, that's it, no rocket science involved there anywhere as Dan Zanger amply proves with his simple trading and great success.

Anyway, I am definitely not gonna waste time on this ludicrous joke of a "chalenge" as it's completely irrelevant, my point, corroborated by common sense, people who verifiably trade size like Dan Zanger or GammaJammer or also exbanker meanreversion or other hedge fund managers here is that A: the big money is made in the big moves, B: you cannot trade size off of short term time frames because of liquidity issues.

Unbelievable.

5000 bucks is supposed to be size ???

Jesus I really feel I am talking with complete, utter and total loonies.

Unbelievable.

 

[new_trader]

BSD?....BSD....?

*tumbleweeds*

COWARD!

 

[MrGecko]

Just throwing this out there.

10 cognitive thinking errors

 

[BSD]

And another hedge fund trader of our very own here keeping it simple, without any smoke and mirrors losers keep hiding behind, making the simple complex is always a sign of not getting it:

D70:
I think most "strategies" come from book reading, self served research, self served marked views and finally, others.

Dont be fooled into thinking that "experienced" traders have anything extra. A lot of them employ the simplest strategy you could imagine.

Ask him about moving size haha.

One of market wizard and billionaire trader Bruce Kovners traders is on here too, doing, umm, size, and not off of short term frames.

 

[MrGecko]

BSD, my post above was aimed at you. Tick off the list how many of the 10 you are guilty of.

 

[new_trader]

And another hedge fund trader of our very own here keeping it simple, without any smoke and mirrors losers keep hiding behind, making the simple complex is always a sign of not getting it:

D70:
I think most "strategies" come from book reading, self served research, self served marked views and finally, others.

Dont be fooled into thinking that "experienced" traders have anything extra. A lot of them employ the simplest strategy you could imagine.

Ask him about moving size haha.

One of market wizard and billionaire trader Bruce Kovners traders is on here too, doing, umm, size, and not off of short term frames.

Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is BSD, it's all for charity. You can spare a few £thousand out of the £Millions you make each year, can't you?

 

[BSD]

Lol what you lot don't get is it ain't about me, it's about generically valid concepts that are verifiable and in the public realm, not hocus pocus from nobodies or invented friends.

I prefer provable facts from accessible people to fiction and smoke and mirrors from people who do not get the success relevant facts.

 

[new_trader]

Lol what you lot don't get is it ain't about me, it's about generically valid concepts that are verifiable and in the public realm, not hocus pocus from nobodies or invented friends.

I prefer facts to fiction.

I agree, what you say is never about you because you don't trade.

 

[BSD]

It still ain't about me haha

It's about generic truisms corroborated by people with real track records.

This by contrast is all you lot like Socrates or Toast etc have on offer:

 

[MrGecko]

Lol what you lot don't get is it ain't about me, it's about generically valid concepts that are verifiable and in the public realm, not hocus pocus from nobodies or invented friends.

I prefer facts to fiction.

Yes, you are right. In which case, I refer you to the Forbes list of Billionaires.

You will note that not one in the top 15 amassed their fortune from trading. So, when push comes to shove, we should all just ditch trading because it can't make you one of the richest men in the world.