Does anybody really make any money?

[Splitlink]

It's time for my usual cast of doubt over the markets. I usually get irritated replies - so here goes again.

Please put me straight, I once again need it -

Hi Tubbs,

This is a good question. Most of the guys here, I suspect, are mediocre at day trading but there
are, no doubt, a few good ones. I have been a lousy day trader, especially with indices. I have always been surprised at how much my investment share portfolio has grown, unattended, while I have been trying to justify my reasons for day trading.

It is possible to make money on UK shares and I do so with a fair amount of success. But, I always enter a trade with the intention of staying with it for, sometimes, ten days. Therefore, I cannot term myself a day trader, it's just that I see an opportunity and close out, but I prefer the idea of a trend lasting a week or so,

Regardless, of what others may think, day trading is a get rich quick idea and does not justify the amount of time one has to spend in front of the computer.

So there you are. You have an ally and great minds think alike!

Split

 

[Trader333]

Regardless, of what others may think, day trading is a get rich quick idea and does not justify the amount of time one has to spend in front of the computer

Shouldnt the above say "In my opinion"

In my view most of the successful day-traders that I know spend 2 hours a day at it and that is all but they are trading US stocks and not indices.


Paul

 

[Mr. Charts]

"Regardless, of what others may think, day trading is a get rich quick idea and does not justify the amount of time one has to spend in front of the computer "


Mmmmmmm.................well I have been day trading US shares for more than five years for my family's living. I start my preparation around 1.45pm and sometimes am finished by 3.30pm, but usually by 5pm.
Richard

 

[Roberto]

Regardless, of what others may think, day trading is a get rich quick idea and does not justify the amount of time one has to spend in front of the computer.

"Regardless of what others may think", this is opinionated nonsense.

 

[nine]

LOL Splitlink,


You seem to have raise the other side of the opinion you offered. I will offer a couple of extra "facts" for the thought mill.

- Most of the index futures day traders I know enjoy the time they spend in front of the screen. Its a little like watching a fire or a stream; quite enjoyable.

- I have seen a lot more "get rich quick" amongst system traders and money management enthusiasts who see wealth at the end of 30 minutes or less a day. I know a lot of day traders who have a "I like to earn $ccc a day" mentality; just a more enjoyable job.

- I can get 10 trades or so in the morning HSI session in 2.5 hours. The only reason I tune in for most afternoon sessions (1.75 hours) is that I enjoy it. The only other time I spend each day is working on myself as my strategy is simple and adaptive to changes in the market.

It may be that these things come at the end of developing oneself to be a successful daytrader rather than at the beginning so there could well be two or more populations out there.

Edit: FWIW the thing I most like about daytrading is you can usually get your drawdowns over in a day so it provides a nice living. Longer term trading drawdowns make this harder in my experience.

 

[donaldduke]

It's time for my usual cast of doubt over the markets. I usually get irritated replies - so here goes again.

Firstly, can anyone daytrade. I'm trying with the S&P & it looks pretty random to me. I read on this board so many times that you shouldn't predict the market but react to it. But surely reacting to the market is just predicting a follow through of what just last happened - a valid premise - but still predicting the market. Once a trade is placed are we not all just predicting the market.

Dont trade the S&P, its one of the hardest markets to trade you are competing against the
biggest hedge funds and best pit traders around, these guys have more information and
discipline than you have and they are also alot better capitalized than you are. You can
make money trading the S&Ps but its very hard and should attempt it only if you are too big to
play in the smaller & easier markets.

Also the spread on ES is a lousy 2.5 thats crap for daytrading, your better off trading the
Dow mini (YM). But make sure you have game plan otherwise youll just end up gambling
the money away, look at Sidinuks free trading system for dayting YM, its a great place
to start.

Prediction, its not prediction if you know that you will only be right around 50% of the time or
less. You let your winners run and cut your losers, you dont predict anything.

 

[stevespray]

DD - Would you have that link to Sidinuk's thread on trading the YM's - I can't seem to locate it in the search.

Many thanks,
Steve.

 

[Splitlink]

LOL Splitlink,


You seem to have raise the other side of the opinion you offered. I will offer a couple of extra "facts" for the thought mill.

- Most of the index futures day traders I know enjoy the time they spend in front of the screen. Its a little like watching a fire or a stream; quite enjoyable.

- I have seen a lot more "get rich quick" amongst system traders and money management enthusiasts who see wealth at the end of 30 minutes or less a day. I know a lot of day traders who have a "I like to earn $ccc a day" mentality; just a more enjoyable job.

- I can get 10 trades or so in the morning HSI session in 2.5 hours. The only reason I tune in for most afternoon sessions (1.75 hours) is that I enjoy it. The only other time I spend each day is working on myself as my strategy is simple and adaptive to changes in the market.

It may be that these things come at the end of developing oneself to be a successful daytrader rather than at the beginning so there could well be two or more populations out there.

Edit: FWIW the thing I most like about daytrading is you can usually get your drawdowns over in a day so it provides a nice living. Longer term trading drawdowns make this harder in my experience.

I expected, and am glad of, some reaction! But, with all the help offered on these boards I would have expected more indignation than the two or three posts offered. Sorry, if I trod on a few corns. As one poster suggested my post should have included "IMO". Whatever, I haven't changed it, rubbish or not!

I don't do US stocks or indices, because of the unsocial hours- at least, for me. Maybe that is one of the reasons that I am no good as a day trader. Having admitted that, I had to find another method of making a crust.

I, too, only trade for a few hours a day and not even that when I am on a good trend but it was not like that as a day trader and I am very wary of that 5% success rate statistic. It crops up too many times to be just talk and the other 95% are not all stupid. I, certainly, have no intention of passing my capital over to the successful minority.

Split

 

[robq]

"Would you have that link to Sidinuk's thread on trading the YM's - I can't seem to locate it in the search."



http://www.online-futurestrading.com/

 

[nine]

I, too, only trade for a few hours a day and not even that when I am on a good trend but it was not like that as a day trader and I am very wary of that 5% success rate statistic. It crops up too many times to be just talk and the other 95% are not all stupid. I, certainly, have no intention of passing my capital over to the successful minority.

Split

Self knowledge is a great thing to have. I don't know if 95% is correct or only specific to day trading - I think it might have been futures trading overall - but it was certainly my experience that day trading was much harder to do well than swing/long term trading. If error and increased transaction costs don't get you then there is a high chance that your own discipline and psychological issues will - issues that don't show up or are easily overcome on longer timeframes. But then the challenge of overcoming those issues is another good motivation.

Good choice Split - but welcome back if you decide you might be able to overcome the hurdles some time. You might try Asian or European futures for a better time match.

Kiwi

 

[Splitlink]

Self knowledge is a great thing to have. I don't know if 95% is correct or only specific to day trading - I think it might have been futures trading overall - but it was certainly my experience that day trading was much harder to do well than swing/long term trading. If error and increased transaction costs don't get you then there is a high chance that your own discipline and psychological issues will - issues that don't show up or are easily overcome on longer timeframes. But then the challenge of overcoming those issues is another good motivation.

Good choice Split - but welcome back if you decide you might be able to overcome the hurdles some time. You might try Asian or European futures for a better time match.

Kiwi

I doubt that I shall come back to day trading, I've found my niche and am happy with it . Apart from that, ruffling a few feathers is fun, too.

Thanks for posting.

Split

 

[Tubbs]

Thanks everybody for the advice - it's much appreciated & taken. That's the beauty of these boards. I used to try the FTSE but just ended up getting hit by what the US market did at 14:30 so I though I would go straight to the horses mouth. I obviously still got a lot of hard work to do. I just wanted to check it was worth doing.

 

[Salty Gibbon]

There are many different ways to day trade and you need to find the way that suits your personality and temperament best.

If you are a naturally impatient person you may find that short term scalps lasting only a few minutes are the best way to go. Or if you are a more sedate person with the patience of Job, then you might go in for the longer intra day swing trades which may last a few hours.


To make money, there has to be a good fit between your trading methodology and what goes on inside your head.

Do not try to copy other traders' methods - but try to adapt what you see to suit your own personal psychology.

Having dawned on me that it's all in the mind, I believe that I have now found my little niche and my little edge and I'll just play it out from here.

Understanding your own mindset, training your mind to follow your intended methodology, getting into a rhythm - these are all important in my view.

Get your head right and day trading becomes a piece of the proverbial p***.

 

[des44]

Well said, Salty. BTW, what is a Salty Gibbon?

There are many different ways to day trade and you need to find the way that suits your personality and temperament best.

If you are a naturally impatient person you may find that short term scalps lasting only a few minutes are the best way to go. Or if you are a more sedate person with the patience of Job, then you might go in for the longer intra day swing trades which may last a few hours.


To make money, there has to be a good fit between your trading methodology and what goes on inside your head.

Do not try to copy other traders' methods - but try to adapt what you see to suit your own personal psychology.

Having dawned on me that it's all in the mind, I believe that I have now found my little niche and my little edge and I'll just play it out from here.

Understanding your own mindset, training your mind to follow your intended methodology, getting into a rhythm - these are all important in my view.

Get your head right and day trading becomes a piece of the proverbial p***.