daytradetowin

[konabean]

Review of At The Open - An E-Mini S&P 500 Trading Course
Day Trade To Win – "At The Open" Trading Course
About.com Rating four out of Five


By Chuck Kowalski, About.com


Many traders often spend years trying to find a trading strategy or trading system that actually works consistently over time. There is no shortage of vendors offering trading systems for sale that make claims of spectacular profits, which may or may not be true. Even worse, many of these trading systems are “black box” where the trading rules are not revealed. I have been following a trading system that looks promising and is certainly worth a review. All the trading rules of the system are completely revealed.

DayTradeToWin.com offers an e-course or trading methodology, At The Open, which I have followed for a couple months and the results have been very positive. The trading strategy only trades the e-mini S&P futures contract and it usually wraps up trading early in the day. The trading signals are not overly complicated, which is an added plus. Actually, I had a good working knowledge of the methodology within a couple hours.

At The Open tends to get you into the market in the direction of the daily trend without chasing the market. Many of the trades are completed within a short timeframe for a quick profit. Discretion is left to the trader on whether he wants to take multiple signals throughout the day and use multiple exits on each trade.

The system has a high percentage of winners, which I always like. There is also a risk management component to the trading rules that keeps you in most of the trades, but you will occasionally get stopped out. DayTradeToWin.com provides a daily performance history of trades since June 2008 on their website.

The cost of At The Open is $397 and full disclosure of the trading rules are included. I was able to personally speak with the developer of the system, John Paul, and I like how his research disregarded many of the highly publicized indicators in favor of techniques used by professional floor traders. The cost of the course seems more than reasonable, especially if you find a system that stands the test of time. That remains to be seen, but I like what I have seen thus far. When you understand the logic behind these trading rules, it should also help you better understand how the markets work, as well as improving your trading.

 

[pedro01]

Review of At The Open - An E-Mini S&P 500 Trading Course
Day Trade To Win – "At The Open" Trading Course
About.com Rating four out of Five


By Chuck Kowalski, About.com


Many traders often spend years trying to find a trading strategy or trading system that actually works consistently over time. There is no shortage of vendors offering trading systems for sale that make claims of spectacular profits, which may or may not be true. Even worse, many of these trading systems are “black box” where the trading rules are not revealed. I have been following a trading system that looks promising and is certainly worth a review. All the trading rules of the system are completely revealed.

DayTradeToWin.com offers an e-course or trading methodology, At The Open, which I have followed for a couple months and the results have been very positive. The trading strategy only trades the e-mini S&P futures contract and it usually wraps up trading early in the day. The trading signals are not overly complicated, which is an added plus. Actually, I had a good working knowledge of the methodology within a couple hours.

At The Open tends to get you into the market in the direction of the daily trend without chasing the market. Many of the trades are completed within a short timeframe for a quick profit. Discretion is left to the trader on whether he wants to take multiple signals throughout the day and use multiple exits on each trade.

The system has a high percentage of winners, which I always like. There is also a risk management component to the trading rules that keeps you in most of the trades, but you will occasionally get stopped out. DayTradeToWin.com provides a daily performance history of trades since June 2008 on their website.

The cost of At The Open is $397 and full disclosure of the trading rules are included. I was able to personally speak with the developer of the system, John Paul, and I like how his research disregarded many of the highly publicized indicators in favor of techniques used by professional floor traders. The cost of the course seems more than reasonable, especially if you find a system that stands the test of time. That remains to be seen, but I like what I have seen thus far. When you understand the logic behind these trading rules, it should also help you better understand how the markets work, as well as improving your trading.

No offence - but why is it that newbies keep popping up with this stuff ? It does more harm than good.

There's just a couple of unanswered questions that the owner could come on with his own id & answer for his more inquisitive prospective clients.

I would be interested myself - but I have a few nagging questions such as

1) why is there never any slippage shown on the results, I know that the ES has little slippage - but never any ? 2) What is the win rate ? With the 5:2 stop loss to profit ratio, there is a statistical likelihood that you will have a 71.4% hit rate on a random entry. Does the system outperform this ? If so - by how much ?

Evidence of it being traded live by the owner would be nice but I can understand both sides of that argument.

Anyway - win rate & slippage aren't attacks - just question from an interested person.

 

[John Paul]

Answers to some valid questions

No offence - but why is it that newbies keep popping up with this stuff ? It does more harm than good.

There's just a couple of unanswered questions that the owner could come on with his own id & answer for his more inquisitive prospective clients.

I would be interested myself - but I have a few nagging questions such as

1) why is there never any slippage shown on the results, I know that the ES has little slippage - but never any ? 2) What is the win rate ? With the 5:2 stop loss to profit ratio, there is a statistical likelihood that you will have a 71.4% hit rate on a random entry. Does the system outperform this ? If so - by how much ?

Evidence of it being traded live by the owner would be nice but I can understand both sides of that argument.

Anyway - win rate & slippage aren't attacks - just question from an interested person.

Without getting to deep into the course the reason why we don't have slippage is because we use Limit orders. We don't use Market orders. We don't want the slippage that comes with market orders and so we teach traders to use Limit orders only. Some people ask for statements, others don't care. I don't believe putting out private finances to show profit is a smart thing to do. And I wouldn't recommended anyone do that either just because someone on the internet asks. There are consequences such as tax implications, Identity fraud, and Privacy concerns that are huge issues. I would not ask of anyone to play show me yours and I'll show you mine type of game. This is good advice to everyone to keep your finances private in this day and age. especially form the Ex's. lol
The win profit ratio everyone speaks about is better explained in the course. We move our stops and we protect our profits. So the money management aspect and win ratio are not so black and white. I believe that we are doing much better then 71% No-one likes large stops, and i definitely don't. But the market does need to breathe and the volatility that we have seen makes it impossible to trade with tight stops. Getting stopped out is not a fun thing, believe me, but the direction of the trade is what we are after. Sure there are going to be losing trades. We reenter to recover part of that loss usually within the same day they occur. Our theme is not to over trade. the Last 14 Trades have all been winners. That equates to 10 days. Stop loss to profit ratio may not make sense to some, but that is only part of the method. Nothing is random in our trading style. And the course explains the method in detail, completely objective. Month to month these ratios will vary, but for the last years this price action strategy hasn't failed.

 

[Malus]

Ok so I am a newbie, don't post as a rule, but have been following this forum with interest.

I notice that the Vendor posts here so presumably welcomes questions?

I understand not being willing to post financial stuff. However, you could offer a trial or better still trade live for a few days, most Vendors do this !

 

[John Paul]

Ok so I am a newbie, don't post as a rule, but have been following this forum with interest.

I notice that the Vendor posts here so presumably welcomes questions?

I understand not being willing to post financial stuff. However, you could offer a trial or better still trade live for a few days, most Vendors do this !

We do offer on occasion free trials and free webinars. If you opted into our mailing list and received the free e book then you should get an email for the next round of freebies.

 

[mswguitar]

Just wanted to post my results for the week. There were more signals than this but I only take the first one of the day (if I can, some of them happen too late in the morning). Results are with 1 contract:

3/2/2009 +2 $100
3/3/2009 +2 $100
3/4/2009 +2 $100
3/5/2009 -5 $-250
3/6/2009 +2 $100
Total: $150

 

[neil]

Just wanted to post my results for the week. There were more signals than this but I only take the first one of the day (if I can, some of them happen too late in the morning). Results are with 1 contract:

3/2/2009 +2 $100
3/3/2009 +2 $100
3/4/2009 +2 $100
3/5/2009 -5 $-250
3/6/2009 +2 $100
Total: $150

Anybody can post figures - but what proof does one have apart from your word

 

[sw9]

Anybody can post figures - but what proof does one have apart from your word

Nobodies asking you to believe it , obviously you would have to try it for yourself!

If it doesnt work, TRASH it, get your money back and move on!

 

[mswguitar]

Anybody can post figures - but what proof does one have apart from your word

I'm simply trying to give interested parties a non-objective, non-vendor perspective on this system. I get no benefit or kickback from posting these stats. If I did, I'd probably post an affiliate link back to his site. Take them for whatever you want them to be.

 

[JDDallas]

I'm undiplamatically going to say "looks like CRAP"
my reason? look at the name "Don't Be Left Out!" that's attempting to create emotional FEAR to force you to buy it. A cheap sales trick.
like UKtradergirl said this forum will teach you as much,or a lot more.
it can feel emotionally comforting to think spending money for information,make the information better, that free information. don't be one of those people who think that just buying a book on diets, magically makes you thin.
cheers B.

I agree "don't be left out!"..this is a dead give away on 2 levels..first that they have something that NO ONE else has and 2nd that they are a bunch of amatuers..talk like this is bascially a red neon sign stating "I'm a con artist"

no..no.. the REAL tricky ones are the ones that come across as genuine

 

[pedro01]

Anybody can post figures - but what proof does one have apart from your word

What's your problem exactly ?

Surely if someone was going to post bull**** numbers, they wouldn't be as decidedly average as the one's posted.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

as decidedly average as the one's posted.

saucer of milk, table two .......

 

[ymanly]

hones t

I must comment on John Paul's methodology. It is very late, very much scalping, but is basically very simple, and accurate. I just viewed a few videos. He is near where I have arrived by deleting lines and using candlesticks. He is using trends, although he does not have trendlines visible. He is buying low in trend and selling high in trend, again with no lines seen, but visible to his eyes. Through experience. I differ with his entries, but can say that he is taking high % probabilities. Very high. His simplicity is obvious. No lines, no thinking. He is employing mechanical setups//signals. I can say based on 8 years emini experience, his trades look very solid. I will say they are not the "edge" of entry signals but they are good enough to beat most to be found. I am enjoying the journey into his trading methods. Will I buy anything from him? NO. Why. I have already paid my dues and could not benefit from anything anyone else has to offer. Have seen it all and understand anything on the chart everyday. But, will say for newbies, it looks very interesting. The ultimate is no indicators...Just plain old standalone candles. Yes, you can still enjoy the benefit of buying low selling high with the trend. You can see the trend. It is usually 45 degrees in severity.

 

[ymanly]

no news

By the way, another advantage for JP's stuff is no news, no times, no s/r/.....nada..my conclusion....just plain old price action...volume is always lagging, no volume for me and I think for him. I do much prefer the 15 min chart and the tick chart together...tick needs lines for me to read with entry signals which are too early to discuss.

 

[ymanly]

far from random entry

 

[konabean]

By the way, another advantage for JP's stuff is no news, no times, no s/r/.....nada..my conclusion....just plain old price action...volume is always lagging, no volume for me and I think for him. I do much prefer the 15 min chart and the tick chart together...tick needs lines for me to read with entry signals which are too early to discuss.

I traded e-mini and currencies about a decade back using various technical indicators. It was more complex than I wished, and being a newbie, I ended up folding up my tent and leaving after succumbing to enough losses.

Scene 2: I'm older, hopefully wiser and certainly tougher. I did scarf up the cash for JP's e-book and have been following the trial on Ninja Trader. I like the simplicity. Having been in the financial news business, I know how that works. Trading on it is playing with more fire than you know.

I am skeptical about indicators in general, and more skeptical about lagging indicators. When JP promoted price action, I liked it immediately. It's current and right in front of you.

While nothing will ever be 100%, this system so far is looking pretty good for entries. Down side is the wide stops. But one can tweak those one's liking. Every situation is different and you have to play with what suits you.

There is no magic bullet. This system does not promise to be one. But as I said, it is a good start and promising. I am not affiliated in any way with JP or the system. I am a skeptic by nature, having been there and done that. I've paid several thousand $$ for my first course, and lost more. At $397 I consider this a low risk investment.

 

[rockyIII]

I also purchased Mr.Pauls book. It is simple and logical. You'll read it and say "why didn't i think of that", but you didn't and that's why he gets the $397. The trades posted by mswguitar for last week are accurate, I know, I took them also. The one discrepancy i see with the performance history listed on the website that i am now checking out is total profits. There are two ways to trade the ATO trade. Using Mr. Pauls 10 contracts as an example, you can take off all 10 at 2pts ($1000), or take off half (5 contracts at 2pts. which is $500) go to breakeven and take the other half at 4 pts ($1000) if it is hit for a total of $1500. The losses in both cases would be 5pts or $2500 on the 10 contracts.

Therefore if you decide to trade the all out method all the profits listed on the performance site should be $1000 with $2500 losses. If you decide to do the 2 and 4 pt method then the $1000 profits listed should be $500 and the $1500 profits would remain the same with the $2500 as losses. I have found his trades listed to be honest and accurate and the same as the ones I have checked out so you do the math and decide if it's worth your while.

 

[pedro01]

I also purchased Mr.Pauls book. It is simple and logical. You'll read it and say "why didn't i think of that", but you didn't and that's why he gets the $397. The trades posted by mswguitar for last week are accurate, I know, I took them also. The one discrepancy i see with the performance history listed on the website that i am now checking out is total profits. There are two ways to trade the ATO trade. Using Mr. Pauls 10 contracts as an example, you can take off all 10 at 2pts ($1000), or take off half (5 contracts at 2pts. which is $500) go to breakeven and take the other half at 4 pts ($1000) if it is hit for a total of $1500. The losses in both cases would be 5pts or $2500 on the 10 contracts.

Therefore if you decide to trade the all out method all the profits listed on the performance site should be $1000 with $2500 losses. If you decide to do the 2 and 4 pt method then the $1000 profits listed should be $500 and the $1500 profits would remain the same with the $2500 as losses. I have found his trades listed to be honest and accurate and the same as the ones I have checked out so you do the math and decide if it's worth your while.

Can I ask all of these new posters that are 'discovering' this site to back up daytradetowin - how are you finding this site to jump to John Pauls defense ?

 

[pedro01]

saucer of milk, table two .......

Lol !

Seriously though - Neil is saying those results are fake.

3/2/2009 +2 $100
3/3/2009 +2 $100
3/4/2009 +2 $100
3/5/2009 -5 $-250
3/6/2009 +2 $100
Total: $150

What is not clear is if Neil thinks these results have been posted to make the system look good or bad.

With a 5 point stop & a 2 point target. I would expect from 5 winners & 2 losers from 7 trades on a purely random entry. So if this system has an edge - it needs to outperform that. The above results neither make the system look good or bad.

There are some unknowns here. There is also a 4 point target in the system but no mention yet of when to appy the 4 point target, nor would there be 'cause it's not a free system. Obviously on a 4 point target and 5 point stop loss a random entry would see you winning 5 trades out of 9. On the face of it - this seems a more realistic win ration to outperform.

Curiosity is killing me. I am half tempted to bite just to see what it's about. I could in theory backtest the system in a couple of days & then run it forward to make back the $396 I put in (or whatever it is). Then it would kill the argument either way.

Thing is - I am not clear on what the guarantee is as I can't find the details on the web site.

So - John Paul
- can the guarantee be claimed after forward testing on an ES Sim Account on Tradestation ? I ask this because if my backtest doesn't show good results, I'd not want to run it on my live account and would therefore not be entitled to a refund.

- if I make $1000 but lose $1500 - does the guarantee still pay me back ? I ask because I would have actually made more than the course fee at that point but would also have lost more.

- does the guarantee apply if I only trade 1 or 2 contracts ? It seems 30 days is a rather small amount of time to become confident enough in a system to trade that 10 or 20 contracts.

- under what duristiction does the guarantee apply ? Offshore company or US company or other ?

PM me the answers if you don't want them here - I wont make them public.

PM me a coupon code too so I can get a discount. You know that makes sense a lot of sense.

 

[konabean]

Can I ask all of these new posters that are 'discovering' this site to back up daytradetowin - how are you finding this site to jump to John Pauls defense ?

I got to this site through a Google search when I was researching the feedback on John Paul's system before purchasing it. I found the review on About.com, which I posted here. I was then pounced on as being a newbie and you all tore into it.

I purchased the system and so far have been satisfied. Of course my results are only short term.

What you really want to know is if I am a shill for John Paul. No I am not. The At the Open system seems to work more than not.

As for the large stops, you can temper those to your liking. I have to agree that if you tighten them too much, you will be stopped out. Of course there are going to be days when you will lose at 6 pts., which is a lot. However it seems you will win more than lose.

If you don't like the system, don't buy it. But how does your trading system compare? You call JP on the carpet, but I don't see you comparing your trading system against his. How do your indicators stack up? What's your record for winning trades between 9:30 and noon ET ?