Current events

[Atilla]

I don't understand your point.

They are simply just different systems.

Russians and Chinese less subtle than UK or US that's all. Those leaders still had to work up the ranks and get elected by their system. In some respects I don't blame them. It is difficult to rule a common mob of ill educated numpties. We have a few non-thinking let's just get on with it kind our selves.

They are not like tyrants as in Korean Leader Kim Jong-un.

Then there is the fact that US and UK have supported all kinds of sick and vile fascist regimes and juntas all over the place torturing people as long as they buy our weapons or carry favour with our interests.... Saudi family being one of them.

US staunted democracy in Latin America for years. UK & US in the ME.


All a load of tosh to me. Which I accept and swim along with all the other fish but when peeps like you make out we are so much better than any of them thats rubbish. Simply that after centuries of wars and two big wars we've realised as long as we don't kill each other but kill others against our interests it's ok.


Simply that - different socia-political systems and I'm not sure if any one is better than the other depending on which step of the ladder you're on. :whistling

 

[dbphoenix]

Also, you're rather de-valuing the very correct opposition to true dictatorial government by implying that if Trump and May are as truly as bad as real dictators, the real dictators are only as bad Trump and May.

The two sets of people are not comparable. I'm sure its better to live under a government you can demonstrate against and vote out in a few years time, than die under one you can't.

Everybody has to start somewhere. Nazi Germany didn't just happen. Nor did the Soviet Union. Plenty of examples.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few.

--Wendell Phillips

 

[Pat494]

There are plenty of examples from the past of " how to impose it ".
Take over security
Take control of the press, TV etc.
Take over the military
etc.
I remember reading somewhere that Stalin used to give his City chiefs the authority to liquidate 10% of the population under their control just to make that point and get rid of any nuisances.

Dictatorship is not for the squeamish.

 

[counter_violent]

I think TM prefers no debate and much secrecy, makes parliament a bit of a nuisance along with the HoLs to her. This should be obvious with her conduct and behaviour but not obvious enough.

She rules out early elections and then no sooner as opportunity rears head opts to use the Fixed Term Parliament Act to call elections when both Labour and LibDems putting up little opposition.

She wishes to squash opposition from within her own party ofcourse but states it's the SNP and the others trying to undermine her hard Brexit negotiations.

Evades TV debate knowing she'll be shown up and will look silly answering tough questions with soundbites.

Clearly, Theresa May has decided on a snap general election because she wants to secure a big parliamentary majority before the full consequences of Brexit become 'obvious' to voters. Will the deal be put to parliament or another referendum for the people to vote knowing more precisely what they are voting for? Unlikely. Let the experts in her cabinet decide.

Whatever you want to believe, both US and the UK heading towards some uncharted and very risky times ahead, taken there by two hand holding schmuts imo. Leaders unite. These two have managed to split their two nations in half.

Go figure.

She stayed quiet on this most outrageous headlines because it suits her to do so. She's just another pure egotistical politician - wannabe dictator same as Trump contained by the constitutions and our parliamentary systems. For now anyway.

May's realisation is simply that in order to stand up to the EU machine, she needs to have the clear backing of the UK people. Everyone and their dog is out to undermine the UK. Calling for a stronger position is her only option and if things don't go well in the upcoming negotiations, she will simply tell them all to naff off. Most people realise the position and by backing her up front, give her permission to excersise the naff off option. As long as the Lib Labs get decimated, all is well

 

[tomorton]

They are simply just different systems.

Russians and Chinese less subtle than UK or US that's all. Those leaders still had to work up the ranks and get elected by their system. In some respects I don't blame them. It is difficult to rule a common mob of ill educated numpties. We have a few non-thinking let's just get on with it kind our selves.

They are not like tyrants as in Korean Leader Kim Jong-un.

Then there is the fact that US and UK have supported all kinds of sick and vile fascist regimes and juntas all over the place torturing people as long as they buy our weapons or carry favour with our interests.... Saudi family being one of them.

US staunted democracy in Latin America for years. UK & US in the ME.


All a load of tosh to me. Which I accept and swim along with all the other fish but when peeps like you make out we are so much better than any of them thats rubbish. Simply that after centuries of wars and two big wars we've realised as long as we don't kill each other but kill others against our interests it's ok.


Simply that - different socia-political systems and I'm not sure if any one is better than the other depending on which step of the ladder you're on. :whistling

I suspect there's a huge difference between living in a democracy and living under a dictatorship. That said, its not the job of democracies to spread the democratic system: that's up to the people of each non-democratic state themselves.

As far as foreign policy of democratic countries is concerned, its aims are to secure the security, wealth and future of their own peoples. If that is achieved by trading with dictatorships, so be it: if by obstructing neutral states from aligning with a hostile power bloc, including through democratic routes, so be it. Naturally, the winners at games like these are the states with the more powerful militaries.

 

[Atilla]

May's realisation is simply that in order to stand up to the EU machine, she needs to have the clear backing of the UK people. Everyone and their dog is out to undermine the UK. Calling for a stronger position is her only option and if things don't go well in the upcoming negotiations, she will simply tell them all to naff off. Most people realise the position and by backing her up front, give her permission to excersise the naff off option. As long as the Lib Labs get decimated, all is well

I don't get your argument??? You saying, everyone wanted us to remain in the EU so they could undermine the UK and you lot the Brexiters are trying to save the Nation???

That's sooo rich and difficult to digest I need a bucket.


On the other hand Premier Xi has announced the project of the century heading to Europe and how will the UK be placed to reap some of the benefits of that project?

UK is heading in a very wrong direction the whole country is making a dramatic mistake that'll create lasting damage over decades and TM is fighting an election to get a big majority so she can tell the EU to naff off.


As for LibDems, they are the only party who are democratic and open enough, who trust the nation to vote on the final deal so everybody knows EXACTLY what Red Blue and White will look like.

I fail to understand why you would not want or want the British people to have their say on the final deal after all the lies and deceit brandished around the place by Brexiters.

As bankers, auto and pharmaceutical industries start packing and farmers feeling the heat you can tell the people don't listen to them they are only trying to undermine you by taking your jobs to Europe.

Is that your argument. Your get out of jail card. We could have, should have and would have worked but they undermined us. It was them. Not us.

 

[Pat494]

A UK General Election is coming up soon.
Having heard a few details from the parties on national TV. It seems that they are in desperate need for ideas.

So I google each in turn of the major 3. Not one of them has an ideas section for us the voters to suggest anything !! No wonder, they are in a different world. They tell us what their ideas are. Like it or lump it, seems to be their agenda.

How wrong, arrogant and insensitive can they be ? No wonder Trump and Macron got elected and the old f*rts got beaten.

 

[Atilla]

I was listening to some of the debate and talk with Corbyn and Andrew Neil's questions were loaded to say the least.

He states Corbyn supported the IRA.

Corbyn says no I have never supported the IRA, I talked with the leader of Sinn Fein who nobody talked to before.

Andrew Neil - three times stated Corbyn's support for terrorists and each time he said he has never supported terrorism but only wanted to bring about change and peace.

Instead of saying he was right and ahead of his time Corbyn is projected as terrorist supporter (three times).

Some chap on Radio 4 this morning stated the same assertion that Corbyn's support for terrorists in the past... without stating what support he was referring to.


Now does anyone recall May being accused of supporting fascist regimes and selling them arms? Yemen is a country full of very poor, hungry and desperate people whilst Saudies rich and fat, using the state of the art weapons are bombing their funerals and weddings. Let's assume they've got their one or two targets but the collateral damage is staggering. You will not hear about the other events that goes on. Only what the Ruport Murdochs and the big wigs want you to hear and think.

People I think, are becoming familiar with the same stupid question format. It is mind numbingly obvious but do people really stop to think to assess just exactly what is being said or like sheep go with the flockers.

Think for your selves. It's about time fat cats, hidden agendas and vested interests are addressed putting country before personal interest. Tory infighting, eurosceptics and UKIP have done much damage and it is not too late to readdress damaging issues and reign back control to Parliament with strong opposition.

Support for Labour, LibDem and Green parties are growing. Nation is on the move.

Make your vote count.

 

[tomorton]

Its a matter of record that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have both spoken publicly in favour and honour of the IRA's terrorist campaign. Its a matter for each voter whether they think that's so serious that it might affect their ballot box decision. But there is no doubt of the facts.

 

[Atilla]

Its a matter of record that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have both spoken publicly in favour and honour of the IRA's terrorist campaign. Its a matter for each voter whether they think that's so serious that it might affect their ballot box decision. But there is no doubt of the facts.

Please provide evidence of this, if it is a matter of fact?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-neil-terrorism-election-latest-a7758556.html

I believe him, unless I see evidence to suggest otherwise.

Not supporting government policy is not the same as supporting IRA.

That's the way cowboys deal with issues. Your either with us or against us. Gets you nowhere fast. Are you a cowboy now?

 

[tomorton]

Please provide evidence of this, if it is a matter of fact?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-neil-terrorism-election-latest-a7758556.html

I believe him, unless I see evidence to suggest otherwise.

Not supporting government policy is not the same as supporting IRA.

That's the way cowboys deal with issues. Your either with us or against us. Gets you nowhere fast. Are you a cowboy now?

I will provide details, happily, but if you won't believe the BBC, why would you believe me?

 

[Pat494]

I will provide details, happily, but if you won't believe the BBC, why would you believe me?

Any supporter of any terrorism doesn't get my vote.

 

[Atilla]

I will provide details, happily, but if you won't believe the BBC, why would you believe me?

What, Andrew Neil asking silly phrased questions on the BBC is your proof?

Didn't think you were that old needing to be spoon fed?

So what about the interview where he replies to his questions??? His lying is he?

If he did support the IRA, why didn't the police and security forces go after him?

A) Not enough evidence
B) Too clever for the security forces
C) One that got away
D) He had parliamentary protection to support terrorists

Do you think?

 

[Atilla]

Question from Andrew Neil: Asked if he had ever urged the IRA to end its murderous campaign when he met its “front people”, he insisted: “I never met the IRA".

Is he referring to Sinn Fein or who as the Front People?

This is a crafty question design to trick a less skilled politician into answering a loaded question.

So his lying is he when he says he never met the IRA? You and the BBC have evidence he indeed did meet the IRA?


I ask you once again, do you think for your self or just accept what ever tosh you hear in the news and go by your prejudice because everybody else does the same.


We are talking about UK elections and the media has you and trying desperately to get the rest of the population thinking as you do.

Like the Queen you need to move on with the times old boy.

 

[tomorton]

In 1984, two weeks after the Brighton bombing, Corbyn invited two members of the Provisional IRA, Linda Quigley and Gerard McLoughlin, to parliament. MacLochlainn was a close friend of Corbyn. In 1981 he served two and a half years in jail for conspiracy to cause explosions.

Corbyn joined a 200-strong audience at Conway Hall, London, in May 1987 in paying tribute to the terrorists. “He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ni...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

According to a report in the Sinn Fein/IRA newspaper An Phoblacht, in 2000 Corbyn shared a platform with Brendan McKenna at an event commemorating Bloody Sunday. McKenna was jailed for his role in bombing the British Legion hall in Portadown.

In 2005 Corbyn shared a platform with Raymond McCartney at a meeting about Bloody Sunday. McCartney was a member of the Provisional IRA.

In 2007 Corbyn spoke alongside Martina Anderson at an event organised by his CLP. Anderson was jailed for plotting a series of terror attacks in London and twelve English seaside towns.

In 2009, an An Phoblacht report places Corbyn at a Sinn Fein dinner with Diane Abbott and Ken Livingstone. The event was hosted by Gerry Adams and IRA member Gerry Kelly. Kelly was jailed for his part in the Old Bailey bombing which killed one and injured 200.

In July 2011, Jeremy Corbyn chaired a Sinn Fein event commemorating the Hunger Strikes. An Phoblacht says Corbyn shared a platform there with the IRA member Brendan ‘Bik’ McFarlane, who was a part of an IRA gang which killed four Protestant civilians and a UVF member in a pub bombing. Also present was Jennifer McCann, who was sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the murder of a RUC constable.

Diane Abbott can only confirm he shared platforms with IRA members at various public events - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XtlYSXdl1s&t=1s.

 

[tomorton]

Nearly forgot -

 

[Atilla]

In 1984, two weeks after the Brighton bombing, Corbyn invited two members of the Provisional IRA, Linda Quigley and Gerard McLoughlin, to parliament. MacLochlainn was a close friend of Corbyn. In 1981 he served two and a half years in jail for conspiracy to cause explosions.

Corbyn joined a 200-strong audience at Conway Hall, London, in May 1987 in paying tribute to the terrorists. “He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ni...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

According to a report in the Sinn Fein/IRA newspaper An Phoblacht, in 2000 Corbyn shared a platform with Brendan McKenna at an event commemorating Bloody Sunday. McKenna was jailed for his role in bombing the British Legion hall in Portadown.

In 2005 Corbyn shared a platform with Raymond McCartney at a meeting about Bloody Sunday. McCartney was a member of the Provisional IRA.

In 2007 Corbyn spoke alongside Martina Anderson at an event organised by his CLP. Anderson was jailed for plotting a series of terror attacks in London and twelve English seaside towns.

In 2009, an An Phoblacht report places Corbyn at a Sinn Fein dinner with Diane Abbott and Ken Livingstone. The event was hosted by Gerry Adams and IRA member Gerry Kelly. Kelly was jailed for his part in the Old Bailey bombing which killed one and injured 200.

In July 2011, Jeremy Corbyn chaired a Sinn Fein event commemorating the Hunger Strikes. An Phoblacht says Corbyn shared a platform there with the IRA member Brendan ‘Bik’ McFarlane, who was a part of an IRA gang which killed four Protestant civilians and a UVF member in a pub bombing. Also present was Jennifer McCann, who was sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the murder of a RUC constable.

Diane Abbott can only confirm he shared platforms with IRA members at various public events - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XtlYSXdl1s&t=1s.

I think this is what is termed character assassination by association.

There is terrorism act of killing people for a political cause then there is fighting and trying to bring about peace between two sides without taking sides, peacefully.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/21/martin-mcguinness-timeline

1969 – He is identified as a capable and strategic operator and quickly appointed second-in-command of the Provisional IRA Derry Brigade.

1972 – McGuinness is 21 when British paratroopers shoot and kill 13 unarmed Catholic demonstrators on Bloody Sunday. The IRA is subsequently invited by the then Northern Ireland secretary, Willie Whitelaw, for secret talks with the British government. As rising figures in the republican movement, McGuinness and Gerry Adams are chosen to be part of the delegation.

Now below you see a picture of our Queen shaking hands with said second in command IRA leader. Whilst labelling our Queen a terrorist friend you can add Willie Whitelaw to that list too who held 'SECRET' talks with the IRA who were 'invited' by the British government.

Tomorton, I don't think you understand how this peace process and talks work. If left to peeps like you we would still be where we were back in the 70s.

How is Willie Whitelaw or the Queen different to Corbyn. Corbyn speaks in public in full transparancy trying to bring about peace. Wille Whitelaw speaks in secret so as not to embarrass the government.

Queen speech referring to history of 'heartache and loss' re: past relations comes as close to an apology as diplomatically possible.

Here you are still digging up dirt and sh1te to wooh your Tories on how bloody marvelous they are whilst tarnishing a true catalyst to peace and an honest upright man, whether you disagree with his views or not. Don't you see the similarities. They shared a platform you say, well how else are you going to take two warring sides to talk if you start off by blaming one side.

It's water under the bridge and look at their manifestos and what they can do for the country instead.

But you much like many other people are being fed days agenda and talk by the media who don't want you to think about how the Tories are starving the NHS or taking 3% off education in real terms whilst promoting selection based grammer schools. More like subsidising grammer schools at the expense of the National Education. Her pet project.

Real events and real lives and you carry on as you are. You might have learnt a thing or two at your grand age... Can't teach new tricks to old dogs eh?


Anyhow, I'm beginning to think an upset might be brewing as this Corbyn trashing is now working in his favour as - I'm hearing quite a few people stating the same manipulation by the press to set the agenda. Corbyn maybe elephant in the room but that TM is snake in the grass in my eyes.

 

[tomorton]

"Water under the bridge"? Or blood down the gutter?

It is well established that Corbyn was not a valiant and neutral peacemaker during the Northern Ireland troubles, he was an IRA sympathiser and supporter. You could say an ambassador for them, but he certainly wasn't seeking a peace accord.

In fact, why didn't he push further and seek the IRA's disarmament and surrender of weapons? This later became one of the key steps along the route to peace.

And why doesn't he defend himself by pointing out his equivalent efforts to negotiate with the Protestant groups in Northern Ireland when he's asked about this period? Of course, the answer is because he can't because wasn't talking to them. A peacemaker who only talks to one side? A little strange wouldn't you say?

 

[Pat494]

"Water under the bridge"? Or blood down the gutter?

It is well established that Corbyn was not a valiant and neutral peacemaker during the Northern Ireland troubles, he was an IRA sympathiser and supporter. You could say an ambassador for them, but he certainly wasn't seeking a peace accord.

In fact, why didn't he push further and seek the IRA's disarmament and surrender of weapons? This later became one of the key steps along the route to peace.

And why doesn't he defend himself by pointing out his equivalent efforts to negotiate with the Protestant groups in Northern Ireland when he's asked about this period? Of course, the answer is because he can't because wasn't talking to them. A peacemaker who only talks to one side? A little strange wouldn't you say?

The who did what and said what to whom will no doubt carry on for some time.

The main point is that the poor people of NI suffered quite enough.

 

[tomorton]

The who did what and said what to whom will no doubt carry on for some time.

The main point is that the poor people of NI suffered quite enough.

That is a fine point. But as the world is more complicated, we need to recognise 2 more -
1. a supporter of terrorists cannot claim credit for peace
2. there can be no true peace without truth.