Best Thread Capital Spreads

[Phil Mibbutz]

Just a theory, but if the Dow, for instance, is actually quoted to two decimal places, if the SB price is quoted to no decimal places, doesn't that mean there's a potential spread of almost two pips (1.98?) 'built in'?

 

[capitalspreads]

Phil Mibbutz

the Dow is not actually 'quoted' it is just an average of the prices of all its component shares. You cannot go out and 'buy' the dow except via its derivative which is the Dow Future. The dow future is not actually 'quoted' either as it is an exchange into which traders place their bids or offers which are a minimum of 1 point wide. The only place where you can get a 'quote' is from a spread betting company.

The only time the decimal places come into play is on the settlement of the daily markets, which we do not quote anyway as we only do the 'rolling daily' markets, which some spread betting companies quote.

Simon

 

[Staples]

Phil Mibbutz

the Dow is not actually 'quoted' it is just an average of the prices of all its component shares. You cannot go out and 'buy' the dow except via its derivative which is the Dow Future. The dow future is not actually 'quoted' either as it is an exchange into which traders place their bids or offers which are a minimum of 1 point wide. The only place where you can get a 'quote' is from a spread betting company.

The only time the decimal places come into play is on the settlement of the daily markets, which we do not quote anyway as we only do the 'rolling daily' markets, which some spread betting companies quote.

Simon

How do you work out your charts then? Are they based on the real market price or just your quote as it is with the midpoint quote on finspreads charts?

 

[Jbat001]

Quick question Simon - are you planning on offering Standard Life plc as an equity contract on your platform as soon as it goes public in July, or are there no particular plans?

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

Thanks for the reply, Simon. 'Quoted' may have been the wrong word for me to use!

 

[capitalspreads]

jbat

yes we will be adding standard life as soon as it is quoted (thanks for reminding us as we would probably have forgotton about it!)

Staples

charts for the rolling wall street are taken from 'our bid price' not from any dow market feed. All the charts on our site are taken from our own prices. For instance the Setember share prices do not actually exist ouside of the spread betting companies (in most cases) and therefore the charts must come from our own quotes or just be charts of the underlying product (as on our demo platform).

Simon

 

[Jbat001]

Many thanks Simon.

 

[eatontrade]

jbat

yes we will be adding standard life as soon as it is quoted (thanks for reminding us as we would probably have forgotton about it!)

Staples

charts for the rolling wall street are taken from 'our bid price' not from any dow market feed. All the charts on our site are taken from our own prices. For instance the Setember share prices do not actually exist ouside of the spread betting companies (in most cases) and therefore the charts must come from our own quotes or just be charts of the underlying product (as on our demo platform).

Simon

Interesting !!!!

So perhaps you could explain why I was stopped out of a short cable position at 1.8476 this morning when your chart showed the high on "your quote" as being 1.8472 bid.

When I queried this with your help desk I was told that the charts don't "always show" your quote and shouldnt be relied on.

GREAT !!!!

 

[capitalspreads]

eatontrade

I am sorry that this has happened BUT the charts do say that they are 'indication only' they do not give absolutely every single price tick as the charts are provided by a third party taking the feeds from our price engines. We are not unique in this respect.... it is unfortunate but nobody can state that charts (which are there for information purposes) will give exactly every 'quote' made. The exchanges can give out charts showing actual prints because they have the real trade data to go on.

I have to say when it happens to me I am also p****d off (having been taken out at both highs and lows many times in my career) but i can assure you that our computers MUST get a 'quote print' at that level to activate stops/limits/new orders.

Simon

 

[Jyde]

eatontrade

I am sorry that this has happened BUT the charts do say that they are 'indication only'...

But Simon, it is not just the charts, as an open trade window will often not reflect these 'outer' prices either, thus making it very difficult to manually trade on these better prices, and effectively snipping pips from the punter here and there. It all adds up... or rather: subtracts down...

I assume this is down to technology, though it can be a royal pain, I must admit... Is there anything you, realistically, can do to address this?

All the best...
CJ

 

[capitalspreads]

jyde

the bid / offer does show on the deal ticket (albeit for small moment) .... I looked at the trade history and I was hoping for a sell bet at 1.8473 to prove my point but unfortunately although we had some 71's there were no sellers higher than this. It is difficult to assure clients over this matter because the natural response is to say " well he would say that wouldn't he".

There was a comment from one client a while ago who did indeed mention that he was filled in a limit 'take profit' order when he did not actually see the print go through so it does work in clients favour as well.

In FX it is very hard to acsertain highs/lows as there is no exchange, and price providers swarm like flies giving one set of charts a higher high than others. Our other three chart providers all have 1.8473 as the high bid which shows that we were not being perverse or manipulative. A few small stops were activated at 1.7476 (and 75 , 74 ,73 etc) but we real truly /honestly / hand on heart have no input into the prices we display other than our choice of price feeds.

Simon

 

[Jyde]

jyde
the bid / offer does show on the deal ticket (albeit for small moment) ....

Simon, this is not always the case (for me). The above mentioned situation can happen in a slow market as well (and not FOREX), where the price is actually staling at ex. a higher price than you are showing in the trade ticket. One of three things will happen: 1. The price continue up and CS climbs after it; 2. the price stays where it is for quite a bit and CS mostly catches up; or 3. the price turns around and CS has never been there (on chart or trade ticket). This latter situation is obviously the most frustrating).
I do believe that you mostly have the right price (i.e. 'have been there') behind the scenes for stops and limits (and logs), though if it does not filter through to the trade ticket, I cannot trade manually off it.

As for 'he would say that...', I do understand, but having observed this lacking in many (!) an instance, I really do not think it a case of the ticket being faster than the eye.
If you, just for the sake of argument at least, would consede that this might happen, you can also see why it is a problem: The range to trade manually off has been narrowed, thus cutting pips at the edges. Conversely, as you do activate stops when the underlying market is there, the opposite situation is not of equal benefit.

I would be interested to know - given Simon's above assurances - if any other CS customers are observing this, as I would like to know whether it is something Simon might not be fully aware of or if it boils down to a problem with my setup/account/conx.

Simon, I am sorry to harp on about this, but as it has actually stopped me from trading actively with your good selves, it is something of regret to me. I have absolutely no reason to think you not sincere on this matter, and appreciate your feed-back.

Thanks for your answers.
CJ

 

[peto]

Why not just feed your charts with the same figures you show on your deal ticket?

How is anyone supposed to work out areas of support or resistance (or anything else) if your charts aren't printing the true tops and bottoms?

 

[eatontrade]

eatontrade

I am sorry that this has happened BUT the charts do say that they are 'indication only' they do not give absolutely every single price tick as the charts are provided by a third party taking the feeds from our price engines. We are not unique in this respect.... it is unfortunate but nobody can state that charts (which are there for information purposes) will give exactly every 'quote' made. The exchanges can give out charts showing actual prints because they have the real trade data to go on.

I have to say when it happens to me I am also p****d off (having been taken out at both highs and lows many times in my career) but i can assure you that our computers MUST get a 'quote print' at that level to activate stops/limits/new orders.

Simon

OK and thanks for the reply but could I suggest that the feed to the third party is enhanced to send prices actually traded as well as those from your pricing engine ?
Your customers would greatly appreciate an accurate representation of where your market has been and I'm sure that it would save you a lot of time in explaining stops/limits hit/not filled.

 

[capitalspreads]

mmmm

i have to say if our prices were 12 pips out we would just get slaughtered ... if the price is too low then buy it...are you actually watching an opened trade ticket or the overall trade platform.

jyde

i assume you are talking about the market page and not the open bet ticket price which is a streaming price. The market page updates about once every 5 secs but an open ticket updates continuously.

Simon

 

[wasp]

It would just be nice to know the price ticket is showing the same as the chart.

 

[Jyde]

jyde

i assume you are talking about the market page and not the open bet ticket price which is a streaming price. The market page updates about once every 5 secs but an open ticket updates continuously.
Simon

Simon, unfortunately not. I must admit I have never seen a 12 pip lack - I notice it often between 2 - 5 pips at its worst - but I trade the dow as well. Maybe the problem is more expressed with this instrument?

I also find, with few exeptions, the open trade ticket is pretty much in line with your charts. Even though this is obviously a good thing, it does mean that where your charts lag or never get to the peak/bottom of the underlying, your open ticket will not have reported the prices either.
Once again, I really don't think it a matter of it showing too fast for the eye, as per my previous posts.

Thanks again, Simon.

 

[eatontrade]

Simon,

If I am long the market with a stop in place and the market gaps down through my stop I will get filled at the first tradeable price right ?

If I have a limit order to buy and the market gaps down through this level will I also get filled at the first tradeable price ?

 

[wasp]

Simon,

I always use the same size stoploss on every trade. You have an automated stop set at 80% of the account now. Is there any way I can change this to set the stop automatically to my requirements instead.

thanks

 

[zuke]

CS has gone "telephone only" on Cable. "Plus ca change, plus la meme chose"