Best Thread Capital Spreads

capitalspreads said:
pip star/tar/chief

as you sit in front of one pc screen and have no real information to back up your statements i will just refer any readers back to previous comments. Scalper/latency trading is not acceptable to Market Makers not just SB companies but also to Market Makers in all offerings (banks will not give their FX price feeds to toxic flow customers) LCG has probably the most liquid FX platform in London with the 16 biggest FX banks on the planet adding liquidity and still they will identify individual clients and refuse to quote their prices to them. I do not know how often I can say this before some of the more persistent threaders get the point.

in any market if you are frequency trading you will lose sometimes. FACT. if I have a client who trades 30 times in a day and either makes or scratches EVERY SINGLE time then statistically this is impossible. Try tossing a coin and ending up on heads 30 times out of 30 (a market can only go up or down, 50/50 at any given moment). That is why people get put on dealer acceptance

if a client is a 'good trader' then he will be a good trader on any platform. If we have put a trader on Dealer acceptance and this is unacceptable then there are numerous other providers out there. I suspect though that most find that they lose on the 'faster' platforms or get put on Dealer approval pretty quickly with the smaller providers.

chief

as i have no idea who you are your question is pretty irrelevent. TF and DD are trading names of LCG and so all trades come via our dealers.

Simon
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Simon no new here i know this already , all what i said that u use latency scalpers , as an excuse to shutdown all profitable scalpers , y ? because u cant hedge their trades . period.
 
Simon

Mate no need to get so touchy. Was a fair question.

'As you sit in front of one pc screen and have no real information to back up your statements'....

Pardon me what? I am not talking about latency issues - I am talking about what happened to me with Tradefair. So excuse me sir, but I have real information to back up my statements.

"chief

as i have no idea who you are your question is pretty irrelevent."

Wow goodness, just because you do not know who I am, my question is now pretty irrelevant?

I merely asked you if Tradefair and DD used Caps dealers. Simple question. What does my identity have to do with it and why does that make my question pretty irrelevant? How rude.

As for your idea that good traders, don't go elsewhere cos they find it hard to win as much with faster platforms. Give me a break will you. What utter nonsense. I like using Tradefair because of the fixed stop losses and non-debiting rolling daily system, which IG et al do not offer.

No other reason.

Might want to learn how not to be unnecessarily rude to people mate. Very unprofessional.
 
Geez I'm actually still shocked by how rude your response was Simon. Only asked two very fair and simple questions. Didn't realise a listed company CFO would take such a tone.
 
Arabian lol - I was. I asked fair questions.

I never called him irrelevant.

I never accused him of not having the right information in front of him.

I never skirted around my questions.

He did.
 
It is very simple, according to the MiFID discrimination of clients is not allowed. And flagging certain clients to be on constant referral to a dealer is plain is discrimination, as you are not able to trade on equal terms. CS have signed up for the MiFID financial directives so they should apply to the regulation at hand. Apparently this is a very small problem for CS but a big problem for traders, you never know when it is your turn to get hit, branded and this causes uncertainty. For most part CS is a good company but this issue keep casting a dark shadow over the company. Many of the other SB have the same client policy, but they are very quiet about it. To his credit Simon is open about it, causing him to get criticized over the treatment of certain clients. However, I shouldn't be too worried though, there are signs that competition will take care of this problem in the very near future.
 
chiefchimpanzee said:
Geez I'm actually still shocked by how rude your response was Simon. Only asked two very fair and simple questions. Didn't realise a listed company CFO would take such a tone.
Click to expand...

Come on, you've been trying to wind him up.

You've accused him of lying about his experience, and have generally posted with a confrontational tone. What comes around goes around. You can't play the injured party when you're looking for an argument.

And while your question about whether 'Nick was right' and should you have been referred to dealer isn't irrelevant, how is Simon supposed to answer when he doesn't know who you are and knows nothing about your issue.
 
Ns - the experience thing was not me winding him up! I was genuinely suggesting that he's achieved a lot and that he should take on prospreads. Geez - look at the context of the convo will you. Hardly am stupid enough to think that a listed CEO/CFO is going to lie about their experience in an annual report am I?! So why would I even think that or worse still even say it.

Secondly - yes the nick question was correct. Nick is works at Tradefair and said that it was Caps who dealt with the trading side of things - and it was their dealers who put me on refer to dealer. The question merely was asking whether this was correct - ie did Caps dealers deal with Tradefair customers, or was it just the platform that caps was responsible for.

Nobody is looking for an argument - merely answers.

People interpret what they want in the way want.

ps...also as others have pointed out - I have every right to be annoyed if I am being penalised as a customer, just cos of a handful of traders who abuse the system. You'd be confrontational in that context to - if you'd been accused of gaming the system when you had done no such thing. Also again the reason for asking whether Nick from Tradefair was correct in saying that the dealers I speak on the phone, are from Caps directly - as they were the ones who were talking down to me, as if I was lying.

So come off it - don't have a go at me for asking fair questions.
 
chiefchimpanzee said:
Ns - the experience thing was not me winding him up! I was genuinely suggesting that he's achieved a lot and that he should take on prospreads. Geez - look at the context of the convo will you. Hardly am stupid enough to think that a listed CEO/CFO is going to lie about their experience in an annual report am I?! So why would I even think that or worse still even say it.

Secondly - yes the nick question was correct. Nick is works at Tradefair and said that it was Caps who dealt with the trading side of things - and it was their dealers who put me on refer to dealer. The question merely was asking whether this was correct - ie did Caps dealers deal with Tradefair customers, or was it just the platform that caps was responsible for.

Nobody is looking for an argument - merely answers.

People interpret what they want in the way want.
Click to expand...

You really know how to charm people.

Don't know why you've come here with the attitude, but you clearly have an issue with CS.
 
ns1000 - yep I do have an issue with CS - I've just stated it several times. Having an issue with CS is the entire reason for posting the questions on here...kinda the point of posting in a thread which is titled 'capital spreads'. Apologies - didn't think I'd wind up someone else, when I'm asking Simon a question.

Look simon, I'm sorry if you felt I was questioning your experience. I was not. Was genuinely suggesting you're a smart guy -so why not take on Prospreads and do what arabiannights suggested but you've explained the answer to that, so that's cool.

For everyone else who I've annoyed. APologies.

My only gripe was being accused of being a cheat by the dealers...and if that reflected in my tone - then I apologise.

Only meant to ask two straight and serious questions.
 
tar said:
Yeah they have their own clients , but still same office , they r introducing brokers , check the address at the bottom of the page compare it with CS's

http://www.tradefair.com/
http://www.capitalspreads.com/public/
Click to expand...


What Simon said appears to support your view, but I wonder if he oversimplified the situation for the sake of brevity.

Because if you look at Betfair's corporate website:

http://corporate.betfair.com/corporate/company-history.html

you see that:
2007

DECEMBER
Betfair creates a new business, Tradefair, to provide a range of financial products to the retail market.
Click to expand...

So unless CS/LCG have actually taken over Tradefair, they are separate companies.
Just that, as a "white label partner", CS/LCG runs Betfair's SB operation (known as Tradefair').

Betfair's corporate address is not the same as LCG/CS. I can only think that the reason that CS/LCG's address is shown on Tradefair's website is that CS/LCG run the SB operation for TF; i.e. it's an operational address, rather than a corporate address for Tradefair.

Betfair
Waterfront
Hammersmith Embankment
Chancellors Road (access on Winslow Road)
London, England W6 9HP
United Kingdom
Click to expand...


Capital Spreads
12 Appold Street
London
EC2A 2AW
Click to expand...
(Also the registered address of LCG).


From the Tradefair website:
Tradefair® Spreads is a trading name of London Capital Group Ltd (LCG) which is a company registered in England and Wales under registered number: 3218125. LCG is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA), a member of the London Stock Exchange. Registered address: 4th Floor, 12 Appold Street, London EC2A 2AW.

Tradefair® is part of the Betfair Group. TRADEFAIR® and the TRADEFAIR LOGO are trademarks of The Sporting Exchange Limited. Data on all Betfair Group website(s) (including pricing data) is protected by © and database rights. It may not be used for any purpose without a licence. Parental supervision (e.g. using NetNanny, CyberPatrol) is advised and encouraged.
Click to expand...

Well tricky corporate stuff that I don't pretend to fully understand, but perhaps LCG own the trading name/brand Tradefair, but they are only doing it on behalf of Betfair, which is a separate company, under this partnership agreement.

It's all a bit hazy really, but what I think supports me in my view is that LCG's website talks about CS and then them aquiring Prospreads (Furesbetting). It does not mention Tradefair by name, just refers to having opened 2 SB platforms. One of these could be Tradefair, but it would be as a "white label partner" and not as a wholly owned subsidiary, like CS or Prospreads. That's my theory, anyway. [EDITED]
 
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Got it mate. Thanks for being decent enough to try to help with the answer :) Appreciate it.

I guess my aim for asking the question was

1) To check if Tradefair were just blaming Caps own traders and if so, then obviously I'd get back in touch with Tradefair

2) If Tradefair were correct, then I wanted to get across to Simon that Caps ought to have a better procedure in place. Which i outlined in previous posts - ie just tell the client that this happens and that they would be tested by dealer acceptance for a defined period of time

This provides some sort of certainty to clients who are genuinely not gaming the system. I was lucky that Nick saw my trading patterns and decided to get me taken off the refer to dealer thing and back on to normal trading. However, like I said I know someone who has been on it since Feb and they just will not tell him when they will give him normal trading back.

That's all.

Sorry simon for any hassle I've caused.
 
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montmorencyt2w said:
What Simon said appears to support your view, but I wonder if he oversimplified the situation for the sake of brevity.

Because if you look at Betfair's corporate website:

http://corporate.betfair.com/corporate/company-history.html

you see that:


So unless CS/LCG have actually taken over Tradefair, they are separate companies.
Just that, as a "white label partner", CS/LCG runs Betfair's SB operation (known as Tradefair').

Betfair's corporate address is not the same as LCG/CS. I can only think that the reason that CS/LCG's address is shown on Tradefair's website is that CS/LCG run the SB operation for TF; i.e. it's an operational address, rather than a corporate address for Tradefair.




(Also the registered address of LCG).


From the Tradefair website:


Well tricky corporate stuff that I don't pretend to fully understand, but perhaps LCG own the trading name/brand Tradefair, but they are only doing it on behalf of Betfair, which is a separate company, under this partnership agreement.

It's all a bit hazy really, but what I think supports me in my view is that LCG's website talks about CS and then them aquiring Prospreads (Furesbetting). It does not mention Tradefair by name, just refers to having opened 2 SB platforms. One of these could be Tradefair, but it would be as a "white label partner" and not as a wholly owned subsidiary, like CS or LCG. That's my theory, anyway.
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it is very clear for me , tradefair is another trading name of LCG , same people will answer the phone ( CS , tradefair ... )
 
Here is another example , i found this from old emails :

Andreas Filschke
Customer Support

I saw this name at emails from both firms ( CS , Tradefair ) ...

Betfair only bring clients under the name of Tradefair and they take their cut form the spread i think , for example check this offer in the link from Intertrader ( another trading name for LCG ) :
http://www.intertrader.com/special_offers/tradeback.html
 
Cool got it. cheer Tar and MMT2W.

Really appreciated for clearing that up. I guess it comes down to customer service then.

Simon, I totally do understand that you have absolute idiots who will cheat the system. However, don't let them cause you to lose your long term customers. Like I said at the very least - customer service which explains it all, is more definitive and with a deadline for the refer to dealer test - would go a long way.

Cheers guys...much appreciated.
 
tar said:
Here is another example , i found this from old emails :

Andreas Filschke
Customer Support

I saw this name at emails from both firms ( CS , Tradefair ) ...

Betfair only bring clients under the name of Tradefair and they take their cut form the spread i think , for example check this offer in the link from Intertrader ( another trading name for LCG ) :
http://www.intertrader.com/special_offers/tradeback.html
Click to expand...


I don't think it is quite as simple as you are making out in your previous posting.

Betfair bring clients under the name of Tradefair but they are still Betfair's clients, and Betfair does appear to be a totally separate company from LCG or CS. I am a customer of Tradefair (and therefore Betfair), and my contract/agreement is with them and nothing to do with LCG or CS, even if the people who answer the phone, reply to the emails, and (if necessary) accept/deny/delay my trades, are the same does not affect the fact that the real owners of the business behind Tradefair are not LCG/CS but Betfair (or whoever owns them which is not LCG as far as I can see).

The fact that Intertrader use that same form of words
InterTrader.com is a trading name of London Capital Group Ltd (LCG)
Click to expand...
is neither here nor there. The alternative term (which you will see in various places on CS or LCG websites) is "white label partner" which I think is more helpful. It suggests that two independent businesses are collaborating to their mutual benefit, and in this case, are using a common underlying platform (although what the customer sees is different in each case).


Note that the special offer that Intertrader offers, is different to what Tradefair offers.
I haven't done so, but I will bet that if you dig into the corporate background of Intertrader, it is not LCG or CG but some other company at some other address.


I think the situation is analogous to (but not identical to) a franchise. e.g. Hartwells run a Ford dealership in many places, but that does not make them part of Ford - they may have a special relationship with Ford and use their logo all over the place, but they are still a completely separate business.

In other locations or areas, it might be another company who has the Ford dealership. The customer will just care that he is dealing with a Ford dealership and not care much who is behind the business. The "interface" will be much the same, even if not totally identical.

Put it another way: If Betfair suddenly went bust tomorrow, while the name Tradefair might disappear, LCG/CS wouldn't, not unless they had other serious problems. What would probably happen would be that LCG would take over the Tradefair business (as opposed to the trading name) as a wholly owned subsidiary, just like they took over Prospreads.

Well Simon is probably chuckling away at this, enjoying his "revenge" since we are now chasing our tails trying to work out the corporate relationships of the LCG "Trading names" or whatever, instead of giving Capital Spreads a pasting. :LOL:
 
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