Have you considered the reason they can't get people is because the pay is rubbish in the short and long term. Cheap labour from EU shrinks wages. An apprenticeship in the old days used to result in a bright future because the wages are competitive as employers compete for skills. These days employers are flooded with cheap labour and it is no longer an attractive opportunity when they looking at min wage moving to a living wage and nothing close to a wage that provides enough to save.
As I understand it the UK spends 800 billions on public services , such as trains, NHS, police, fire etc. per year. We pay Brussels 8 billions ie. 1%.
This week I heard that the government intends to spend 55 billion, alone, on HS trains to the centre of London.
Could anyone clarify to me how 8 billion pounds is going to make any difference in the general scheme of things?
This is not an argument, just a genuine question but, since I am still waiting for an answer to the ''veto'' post, a few days ago, on whether one country can stop another becoming a member, I may have to wait for the answer to this one, as well.
This week I heard that the government intends to spend 55 billion, alone, on HS trains to the centre of London.
Could anyone clarify to me how 8 billion pounds is going to make any difference in the general scheme of things?
This is not an argument, just a genuine question but, since I am still waiting for an answer to the ''veto'' post, a few days ago, on whether one country can stop another becoming a member, I may have to wait for the answer to this one, as well.
sminicooper
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"Could anyone clarify to me how 8 billion pounds is going to make any difference in the general scheme of things?"
It's the ability to decide how that money is spent - that's the point. EU is socialism at its finest - we give them lots of our money (all of it would be their ideal) and if we are good and behave ourselves (ie do their bidding) we can have some of it back to spend as they direct. I can't find any democracy in that - but there you go, I didn't get into trading through socialism!
Trader333
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Ah, i'm glad you are here.
What's the verdict squire....or are you saving it?
You know me well enough to already know the answer Jeff and I have deliberately stayed out of the debate
counter_violent
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It's all to do with how it is classified. ie, is it Spending or Investment.
BTW, our nett contribution is 10.6B
As to the veto question....who knows ! the EU has a nasty habit of keep moving the goal posts, so I think it probably depends !
barjon
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It's not as easy as that as you well know. Part of the problem is that we seem to have developed a culture of "the state must look after me" which leads people to look upon benefits as a right with no responsibility and therefore a job can be weighed against benefit and a choice made. It's not peoples' fault, it's the way the welfare state has been presented. The result is a far cry from little old men being found near starving because they regarded the dole as charity and were too proud to take it because they were brought up to fend for themselves. That was equally wrong btw, but just shows the difference in attitude between then and now.
From what I understand, you give them 1%. To avoid paying that, you are leaving a very lucrative trading block. It does not make economic sense.
Your point about democracy doesn't, either, if you take into consideration the fact that
most of us do as we are told, once we have cast our vote. All you are suggesting is that it is preferable ie. more democratic, to be told what to do by your lot, even if they are socialists. Being a poor democrat doesn't make sense to me but, anyway, thanks for your reply.
counter_violent
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The EU in it's current state is finished when we vote leave.
There are other countries within the organisation just itching for us to liberate them. They are not big enough to challenge the all powerful EU machine...but we are !
The EU has turned from what was supposed to be a free trade area into a horrible political beast that suits nobody but those who are on the gravy train.
Signalcalc
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Vote out for an interesting upheaval of a decade of uncertainty and change and sorting things out. Vote in for the same old boringness, more unrest about immigration and constant control by the elite.
Viva Les people (excuse my French).
Viva Les people (excuse my French).
I have dug this up
''Penny Mordaunt, armed forces minister, speaking on the BBC’s Andrew Marr show on May 22.
Turkey is not about to join the EU. The spectre of Turkish membership has long been used to rally eurosceptic sentiment. In 2005, it was a factor in the rejection of the EU’s draft Constitutional Treaty in France and the Netherlands. Turkey was nowhere near joining the EU then and it’s probably further away now.
Putting that to one side, Mordaunt’s comments raise the question of whether existing EU member states are able to veto new states joining. The answer is yes. Accession of a candidate state must be approved unanimously by the Council of the EU, which is made up of representatives from each member state, and ratified by all national parliaments. This gives each member state a veto over the process. So even if Turkey were to fulfil all of the eligibility criteria (it’s not even close), and even if all other member states favoured accession (they don’t), the UK would still be able to veto.''
As I see this, the UK, by not using its veto, has allowed other nations to become members. Why?
The whole immigrant question is a Brexit excuse because the UK allowed 180,000 non EU people to come in, last year. Legal or illegal, it does not matter. They are in. They will keep coming in because of world population increase. That is the nub of the whole question.
Brexit leaders have their own fish to fry. UK citizens are a means to an end, as far as they are concerned. All politicians are the same.
Please, please, vote for, or against, but look after your own interests.
barjon
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.....and on the basis of fact, not wishful thinking or scaremongering (from both sides).
Sonicscooter
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Well this thread is heating up, one side the self interest i'm alright Jack group, the other, The Britain for independence 1066 club......
Well this thread is heating up, one side the self interest i'm alright Jack group, the other, The Britain for independence 1066 club......
In my lifetime, I found that the self-interest vote is based on sound commonsense and works out to be in the interests of more than just the one voter.
Are you suggesting that all the "self-interest" voters" want to remain in the EU? I can assure you that that is not the case.
Sonicscooter
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That's what i said......self interest and members of the Spineless club......O'and people who's memories stopped working in 1973.
counter_violent
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You know what's really annoying.
I'm wrong side of 50 and have never had a vote on Europe. Over the yrs iv'e followed the politics, lab, lib, cons, v closely in the UK re the EU. I've watched the whole thing unfold, the lies, the treachery, the deceit, the double speak, all of it, and I deffo don't like what I see in any of it. This has been building up for a long long time.
Not only is my out vote against the EU and it wouldn't have mattered a jot which party gave me this vote. But I, and a lot of other people are going to give the UK establishment a damm good kicking into the bargain. Long overdue.
barjon
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Better than the bully boys brigade.
To be clear, 171k none EU visas where granted (including dependants) for work. Only a couple of these types lead to perm residence and the rest have a defined period before they would need to reapply. The government didn't block any of this because much of the areas covered represent business activity which they need to be seen as competitive on a global scale. Another large element to this is foreign student activity.
Sorry but your argument here regarding the out camp ignoring this is irrelevant.
Oh and here is a list of visas that allow work:
Work visas
Check a biometric residence permit
Domestic Workers in a Private Household visa
Get an exempt vignette
Representative of an Overseas Business visa
Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) visa
Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visa
Tier 1 (General) visa
Tier 1 (Investor) visa
Tier 2 (General) visa
Tier 2 (Intra-company Transfer) visa
Tier 2 (Minister of Religion) visa
Tier 2 (Sportsperson) visa
Tier 2 Priority Service
Tier 5 (Temporary Worker - Charity Worker) visa
Tier 5 (Temporary Worker - Creative and sporting) visa
Tier 5 (Temporary Worker - Government Authorised Exchange) visa
Tier 5 (Temporary Worker - International Agreement) visa
Tier 5 (Temporary Worker - Religious Worker) visa
Tier 5 (Youth Mobility Scheme) visa
Turkish Businessperson visa
Turkish Worker visa
UK Ancestry visa
UK visa sponsorship for employers
UK visa sponsorship management system
Working in the UK as a Croatian national
There was a lorry driver on the radio, today, who cannot drive until he gets an EU license. He's been driving for 42 years. Now he has to go on a course, which will cost him 500 pounds. He is voting out. Laudable, perhaps, but self interest, just the same.
I hope that more people vote for reasons like that when they do not understand what GDP and all the other economic terms are. Half the poiliticians don't know, either, so the voter may as well vote for a practical reasonn.
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Sonicscooter
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Yep......im sick the thought of how many people fought and died to make this country, from right back in history, for a group of people to think they have the God given right to throw it all away, this whole Brexit debate has made me think about peoples integrity and moral fibre, and how many spineless people there are........If we do remain, i hope the 5hit fest hits them first.
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