Brexit and the Consequences

Atilla said:
Quite the contrary. Nothing else is more likely to impact the strategic direction of the UK for good many years to come impacting real jobs and real living standards.

How does your comment reflect on the 4000 jobs supported by Bombardier? They are not politicians are they?

Sadly, the decline of the British Empire and Industry is based on fools resting on their past laurels.

As the saying goes, past performance is no indication of future returns.


I fear if Brexit fiasco deteriorates, hard times will ensue and Labour will get in to power. Whilst I support their policies the greed spectrometer will swing from fat cats to fat union bosses. I don't mind that either, better to have many fat trade unions than few fat bosses.

I dunno, maybe it'll be a good thing with wages rising, inflation falling and houses becoming more affordable. All this obviously makes good sense in some peeps worldly views. :whistling

Much tosh of course each to his own.
Click to expand...


It sounds like even you half agree with me. There'll be some upside and some downside but brexit doesn't mean either we all die or we all get rich. Some ordinary people will be a bit better off and some a bit worse off. But that's always the case no matter who's in power, no matter what their policies are.

At least the prospect of political union with the EU is now off the shelf. Or is it really, if Labour get into power?
 
The US and Boeing have already had their answer to tariffs. There will be no future UK govt contracts if they continue down this road.
 
tomorton said:
It sounds like even you half agree with me. There'll be some upside and some downside but brexit doesn't mean either we all die or we all get rich. Some ordinary people will be a bit better off and some a bit worse off. But that's always the case no matter who's in power, no matter what their policies are.

At least the prospect of political union with the EU is now off the shelf. Or is it really, if Labour get into power?
Click to expand...

Sorry Tomorton, that's my bad attempt at sarcasm.

Wages rising, inflation falling and houses becoming more affordable is much bull touted by the likes of Brexiters and Moggy fool which is clearly not what's happened at all.

As jobs leave the UK along with key industries, rates and jobs will decline couple with some hard times ahead from loss of trade.

Inflationary pressures have been imported due to fall in the pound.

With loss of jobs, inflation and rising interest rates, peoples ability to buy houses will not be helped but on the contrary further made impossible.

There are no thinkers or experts as the Brexit camp is full of wannabeee great politicians, hope and glory boys touting past history and flag waving who's a bigger patriot crap.

I mean look at CV's response - no future UK government contracts!!! Shocking. Name of the game is to increase trade.

We'll send the US of A to the back of the queue and keep the Auzzies and NZ at the front. No worries. We also have Mr Dyson who says we can do this.


I reckon Corbyn sees Brexit as an opportunity to get in to government. Is this not clear to people? :-0


Once again LibDems are the only real sensible option for the people to see how negotiations unfold and then have another referendum or get parliament to have a vote on it. (y)
 
Atilla said:
Sorry Tomorton, that's my bad attempt at sarcasm.

Wages rising, inflation falling and houses becoming more affordable is much bull touted by the likes of Brexiters and Moggy fool which is clearly not what's happened at all.

As jobs leave the UK along with key industries, rates and jobs will decline couple with some hard times ahead from loss of trade.

Inflationary pressures have been imported due to fall in the pound.

With loss of jobs, inflation and rising interest rates, peoples ability to buy houses will not be helped but on the contrary further made impossible.

There are no thinkers or experts as the Brexit camp is full of wannabeee great politicians, hope and glory boys touting past history and flag waving who's a bigger patriot crap.

I mean look at CV's response - no future UK government contracts!!! Shocking. Name of the game is to increase trade.

We'll send the US of A to the back of the queue and keep the Auzzies and NZ at the front. No worries. We also have Mr Dyson who says we can do this.


I reckon Corbyn sees Brexit as an opportunity to get in to government. Is this not clear to people? :-0


Once again LibDems are the only real sensible option for the people to see how negotiations unfold and then have another referendum or get parliament to have a vote on it. (y)
Click to expand...

Why would anyone want to continue trading with a company that imposes a 200% tariff? Come to think of it, this is why Africa is being held back because the EU imposes the same sort of nonsensical tariffs on them. All this is done in the name of protectionism. The EU are experts in this arena.

Just when are you going to face the facts instead of trotting out your nonsensical version of economics?

If the UK want's to get back in the fast lane, then it needs to lead on free trade, not stay part of some outdated protectionist regime who's demise is imminent.

I'll bet you any money you like that the US will not follow through with this 200% tariff nonsense.

btw, you have seen the German election result. You have seen the trends in play across the EU. Still going to bury your head in the sand and pretend none of it is happening? :LOL:
 
Atilla said:
I reckon Corbyn sees Brexit as an opportunity to get in to government. Is this not clear to people? :-0


Once again LibDems are the only real sensible option for the people to see how negotiations unfold and then have another referendum or get parliament to have a vote on it. (y)
Click to expand...


Corbyn doesn't care about the EU, its just he sees a chance to get into No.10.

If the LibDems cared about EU they wouldn't be talking about another referendum. That's what got us where we are now, two main parties who didn't really care whether we're in the EU or out of it so thought they might as well pass the buck.
 
Atilla said:
Once again LibDems are the only real sensible option for the people to see how negotiations unfold and then have another referendum or get parliament to have a vote on it. (y)
Click to expand...

It's great to see you retained your sense of humour...:LOL:
 
counter_violent said:
Why would anyone want to continue trading with a company that imposes a 200% tariff? Come to think of it, this is why Africa is being held back because the EU imposes the same sort of nonsensical tariffs on them. All this is done in the name of protectionism. The EU are experts in this arena.

Just when are you going to face the facts instead of trotting out your nonsensical version of economics?

If the UK want's to get back in the fast lane, then it needs to lead on free trade, not stay part of some outdated protectionist regime who's demise is imminent.

I'll bet you any money you like that the US will not follow through with this 200% tariff nonsense.

btw, you have seen the German election result. You have seen the trends in play across the EU. Still going to bury your head in the sand and pretend none of it is happening? :LOL:
Click to expand...


You are like a scratched record - just keep repeating same old rubbish.

First it was the Italian banks, then it was the far Austrian right, then the Dutch, then the French and now 11% of Germans. The far right ain't getting nowhere. UK now has the National Action. Big deal. Wannabee Nazi's barking about same ol sh1t.

EU is ascending. UK has committed to security of EU already whatever the negotiations.

As for UK, US and protectionism, you dig your head into the sand. If you can't reach a negotiated agreement over a simple one industry deal with the one country where we have our special relationship WHAT FREAKING CHANCE DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE, STRIKING DEALS, FREE TRADING DEALS WITH REST OF THE WORLD.

I'm left speechless by the daft stupid foolish belief so much hope is placed on a few words contrary to all evidence. TMay got nada from the Indians, Chinese and the Japanese and now the Yanks.

Trump said he'd put the UK first in the queue. If you believe that, then you have a role cut out for you on the muppet show.

How many more U-turns you reckon the Tory party and Brexsh1tters going to make before you wake up to reality. ROTFLMAO ;)


Here enjoy :)

 
tomorton said:
Corbyn doesn't care about the EU, its just he sees a chance to get into No.10.

If the LibDems cared about EU they wouldn't be talking about another referendum. That's what got us where we are now, two main parties who didn't really care whether we're in the EU or out of it so thought they might as well pass the buck.
Click to expand...


That's because his indicated he would like to go back to nationalisation and supporting regional policy to tell business where to setup shop. This is something EU Treaty of Rome will not allow him to do if UK remains member as it is contrary to EU competition policy.


Would you rather this very important strategic decision is left to a split cabinet with very narrow political interests?

Nothing wrong with referendum or parliamentary votes if it is constructed well. It is democratic and imo far better way forward.
 
Atilla said:
You are like a scratched record - just keep repeating same old rubbish.

First it was the Italian banks, then it was the far Austrian right, then the Dutch, then the French and now 11% of Germans. The far right ain't getting nowhere. UK now has the National Action. Big deal. Wannabee Nazi's barking about same ol sh1t.

EU is ascending. UK has committed to security of EU already whatever the negotiations.

As for UK, US and protectionism, you dig your head into the sand. If you can't reach a negotiated agreement over a simple one industry deal with the one country where we have our special relationship WHAT FREAKING CHANCE DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE, STRIKING DEALS, FREE TRADING DEALS WITH REST OF THE WORLD.

I'm left speechless by the daft stupid foolish belief so much hope is placed on a few words contrary to all evidence. TMay got nada from the Indians, Chinese and the Japanese and now the Yanks.

Trump said he'd put the UK first in the queue. If you believe that, then you have a role cut out for you on the muppet show.

How many more U-turns you reckon the Tory party and Brexsh1tters going to make before you wake up to reality. ROTFLMAO ;)


Here enjoy :)

Click to expand...

All these European countries must be making it up :LOL:

Go ponder this latest poll in Italy.

http://www.ansa.it/english/news/201...aly_1cdf5057-5e71-44bb-991c-d807a11d2e33.html
 
Atilla said:
That's very desperate of you!

Migrant invasion, put country on war footing.

National Action needs you.

Latest numbers in UK... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-to-uk-drops-to-lowest-level-for-three-years
Click to expand...

Nothing desperate about it. All EU countries have issues and all of those issues stem from freedom of movement and uncontrolled migration. None of the external borders are secure and that's why we are off. They can't be trusted to keep the UK safe, so we must do it ourselves.

Pick any member country and canvass the people. The trends in these countries are clear. They have had enough of the EU and being told what they should think about migration.
 
counter_violent said:
. . . Pick any member country and canvass the people. The trends in these countries are clear. They have had enough of the EU and being told what they should think about migration.
Click to expand...
Hi c_v,
Whilst I completely agree with you (no surprises there, lol!), there is one aspect in all of this that I find both surprising and disappointing.

IMO, what has emerged since the referendum and the election of Trump is the idea that anyone who supports Brexit (or Grexit in Greece and Frexit in France etc.) is that on the political spectrum they sit at or near the far right. If it were possible to wind the clock back to just before last year's referendum and tell all the people who were thinking of voting leave that they would now be considered by some to be on a par with Nazis - they may very well have voted to remain. It could even have tipped the balance the other way. I've never sympathized with far right parties or organisations and I would not have voted for Le Pen in France or the AfD - or whatever they're called - in Germany. I suspect there are many people in those countries who feel more or less the same way.

To say the least, it's extremely unfortunate that the only parties that appear to embrace the main tenets of Brexit are the far right extremists. I think there are many more people in France and Germany that are anti EU and would vote leave if those countries held respective referendums but, understandably, they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Le Pen or the AfD in the general elections. It amazes me that the parties occupying the centre to left ground don't spot this massive void and attempt to fill it. When (and it's surely only a matter of time) the mainstream parties wake up to the massive lost opportunity and provide a cohesive and unified approach that acknowledges and adopts the main reasons people voted to leave - they will do extremely well. In the meantime, the EU hierarchy must be thanking their lucky stars that this hasn't happened (yet) and be very fearful of the day that it does.
Tim.
 
Atilla said:
That's because his indicated he would like to go back to nationalisation and supporting regional policy to tell business where to setup shop. This is something EU Treaty of Rome will not allow him to do if UK remains member as it is contrary to EU competition policy.


Would you rather this very important strategic decision is left to a split cabinet with very narrow political interests?

Nothing wrong with referendum or parliamentary votes if it is constructed well. It is democratic and imo far better way forward.
Click to expand...


I'm not motivated to oppose nationalisation policies. They have some upside e.g. in infra-structure development, but they will all eventually be eliminated by market pressure.

The proof that politicians believe a course of action is irrelevant to the country's well-being is when they hand it over to the electorate to decide in a referendum. I'll never vote in another referendum, they're a con.
 
If a trade war erupts between the UK and the USA then the whole dynamics of the UKs position becomes much more precarious.
Trump is no friend of any country other than the USA. He has consistently stated his ultra nationalist position and I regret to say means it. All the US's efforts for decades are being trashed until the US is left with no allies or trading partners.
Clearly mad.
 
timsk said:
Hi c_v,
Whilst I completely agree with you (no surprises there, lol!), there is one aspect in all of this that I find both surprising and disappointing.

IMO, what has emerged since the referendum and the election of Trump is the idea that anyone who supports Brexit (or Grexit in Greece and Frexit in France etc.) is that on the political spectrum they sit at or near the far right. If it were possible to wind the clock back to just before last year's referendum and tell all the people who were thinking of voting leave that they would now be considered by some to be on a par with Nazis - they may very well have voted to remain. It could even have tipped the balance the other way. I've never sympathized with far right parties or organisations and I would not have voted for Le Pen in France or the AfD - or whatever they're called - in Germany. I suspect there are many people in those countries who feel more or less the same way.

To say the least, it's extremely unfortunate that the only parties that appear to embrace the main tenets of Brexit are the far right extremists. I think there are many more people in France and Germany that are anti EU and would vote leave if those countries held respective referendums but, understandably, they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Le Pen or the AfD in the general elections. It amazes me that the parties occupying the centre to left ground don't spot this massive void and attempt to fill it. When (and it's surely only a matter of time) the mainstream parties wake up to the massive lost opportunity and provide a cohesive and unified approach that acknowledges and adopts the main reasons people voted to leave - they will do extremely well. In the meantime, the EU hierarchy must be thanking their lucky stars that this hasn't happened (yet) and be very fearful of the day that it does.
Tim.
Click to expand...

It is no surprise to me that "super race" people in their own country consider that they are too good to be anything but on their own.

Personally, I am more of a liberal than socialist but they are unpopular, at present. Therefore, who should I vote for? My obvious choice, in Spain, has to be for Sanchez (PSOE ), although I prefer Rivera (Ciudadanos). The reason is that Libdems came out badly, after their pact with the Conservatives and I fear that the same is going to happen here.

Here, we have a minority right-wing party (PP) in minority , governing with Cs. Rajoy is a typical "get the debt down" PM and he is successful and, therefore, popular with Brussels and Germany, etc. but there are, still, milllions unemployed and those in work have a poor standard of living. Improvement in that sector has to be"in spite of", rather than "because of" PP, I'm afraid, and that bodes ill for PP in the next elections.
 
Splitlink said:
It is no surprise to me that "super race" people in their own country consider that they are too good to be anything but on their own.

Personally, I am more of a liberal than socialist but they are unpopular, at present. Therefore, who should I vote for? My obvious choice, in Spain, has to be for Sanchez (PSOE ), although I prefer Rivera (Ciudadanos). The reason is that Libdems came out badly, after their pact with the Conservatives and I fear that the same is going to happen here.

Here, we have a minority right-wing party (PP) in minority , governing with Cs. Rajoy is a typical "get the debt down" PM and he is successful and, therefore, popular with Brussels and Germany, etc. but there are, still, milllions unemployed and those in work have a poor standard of living. Improvement in that sector has to be"in spite of", rather than "because of" PP, I'm afraid, and that bodes ill for PP in the next elections.
Click to expand...

Macron showed some initiative by taking the best of the left and the right to make a popular centre party out of nowhere. It could happen in Spain.
 
timsk said:
Hi c_v,
Whilst I completely agree with you (no surprises there, lol!), there is one aspect in all of this that I find both surprising and disappointing.

IMO, what has emerged since the referendum and the election of Trump is the idea that anyone who supports Brexit (or Grexit in Greece and Frexit in France etc.) is that on the political spectrum they sit at or near the far right. If it were possible to wind the clock back to just before last year's referendum and tell all the people who were thinking of voting leave that they would now be considered by some to be on a par with Nazis - they may very well have voted to remain. It could even have tipped the balance the other way. I've never sympathized with far right parties or organisations and I would not have voted for Le Pen in France or the AfD - or whatever they're called - in Germany. I suspect there are many people in those countries who feel more or less the same way.

To say the least, it's extremely unfortunate that the only parties that appear to embrace the main tenets of Brexit are the far right extremists. I think there are many more people in France and Germany that are anti EU and would vote leave if those countries held respective referendums but, understandably, they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Le Pen or the AfD in the general elections. It amazes me that the parties occupying the centre to left ground don't spot this massive void and attempt to fill it. When (and it's surely only a matter of time) the mainstream parties wake up to the massive lost opportunity and provide a cohesive and unified approach that acknowledges and adopts the main reasons people voted to leave - they will do extremely well. In the meantime, the EU hierarchy must be thanking their lucky stars that this hasn't happened (yet) and be very fearful of the day that it does.
Tim.
Click to expand...

It is indeed unfortunate that in order to be heard, One has to lurch further to an extreme than perhaps One would like.
 
Atilla said:
You are like a scratched record - just keep repeating same old rubbish.

First it was the Italian banks, then it was the far Austrian right, then the Dutch, then the French and now 11% of Germans. The far right ain't getting nowhere. UK now has the National Action. Big deal. Wannabee Nazi's barking about same ol sh1t.

EU is ascending. UK has committed to security of EU already whatever the negotiations.

As for UK, US and protectionism, you dig your head into the sand. If you can't reach a negotiated agreement over a simple one industry deal with the one country where we have our special relationship WHAT FREAKING CHANCE DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE, STRIKING DEALS, FREE TRADING DEALS WITH REST OF THE WORLD.

I'm left speechless by the daft stupid foolish belief so much hope is placed on a few words contrary to all evidence. TMay got nada from the Indians, Chinese and the Japanese and now the Yanks.

Trump said he'd put the UK first in the queue. If you believe that, then you have a role cut out for you on the muppet show.

How many more U-turns you reckon the Tory party and Brexsh1tters going to make before you wake up to reality. ROTFLMAO ;)


Here enjoy :)

Click to expand...

The far right might be getting nowhere, but I think you're missing something if you think there isn't a change of sentiment towards uncontrolled migration in the EU. I think you need to travel more and speak to the locals. It doesn't need to be the far right.

I was recently shocked while on holiday, talking to a local, a very nice (not far right) gentleman, who simply saw his future elsewhere, because he felt that the number of arabs coming to his country was too large, and that they were just too different in nature. I was not the same nationality or race as the gentleman, but he saw me as similar in attitude, and yet saw the arabs who had arrived as different. He didn't express any hatred or even suggest they shouldn't be allowed to come, he fully accepted it, he just thought that the peoples were too different to mix in a good way, the national culture was changing in a way he didn't like, and saw his future as having to leave his home country.

I know this doesn't fit with your views of the far-right, racist, anti-immigration folks, but I've found that it's not just one person who has feelings similar to this.


Personally I'm all in favour of immigration, free-movement, I was even in favour of staying in the EU until they have shown themselves to be less than they should be recently. But there is a growing population who are unhappy with the direction things are going in. It might show up as 11% of a vote, but it shouldn't be dismissed. It's real. And if 11% vote, it's more than 11% that feel.
 
seekingTruth16 said:
Personally I'm all in favour of immigration, free-movement, I was even in favour of staying in the EU until they have shown themselves to be less than they should be recently. But there is a growing population who are unhappy with the direction things are going in. It might show up as 11% of a vote, but it shouldn't be dismissed. It's real. And if 11% vote, it's more than 11% that feel.
Click to expand...

There has always been a segment of the population -- sometimes a large segment -- that has found refuge and comfort in the past, whether in response to the introduction of the tractor, the locomotive, the automobile, the aeroplane, racial integration, open borders, and so on. They have always been left behind, even those who like American Southerners hang on for more than a century, or those in England who yearn for a return to the class system as it was before WWI. But the rich have an ever-stronger stranglehold on society not seen since the days of Louis XVI. What we are going to do about that remains to be seen. But it is unlikely that events will unfold as usual.
 
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