Brexit and the Consequences

counter_violent said:
That's excellent news, well done May ! The less talking heads involved in the process the better, especially if they are experts.
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And in my experience the civil servants only ever want more money, more staff and more committees in order to get less done at bigger cost and more slowly. That's my story from the trenches!
 
sminicooper said:
And in my experience the civil servants only ever want more money, more staff and more committees in order to get less done at bigger cost and more slowly. That's my story from the trenches!
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Your post is very sad and tells me along with CV, Brexiters have very wide discrepancy on what it will cost UK to leave the EU and how or what the future road map will be?


“The civil service is either going to have to be given more resources to deal with Brexit and its usual work or it will have to change its priorities,” Penman was cited by the Guardian as saying.


You see by being a member of the EU we do not need to replicate laws and regulations which are covered by membership of the EU. There are REAL benefits and COST SAVINGS on membership which have not been told to people like you by politicians who simply do not know what they are talking about but only pamper to get popular votes.

These laws and regulations, many presented and passed by the UK will need to be brought in to UK law and delegeated to departments in UK government.

So for you to come out with your blurb above shows the LEVEL of DISCONNECTION between what you think you are going to get and what you really are going to get!


No don't listen to the experts. Listen to those politicians who sit and manage the establishment for you playing musical chairs.


:(
 
Atilla said:
Your post is very sad and tells me along with CV, Brexiters have very wide discrepancy on what it will cost UK to leave the EU and how or what the future road map will be?


“The civil service is either going to have to be given more resources to deal with Brexit and its usual work or it will have to change its priorities,” Penman was cited by the Guardian as saying.


You see by being a member of the EU we do not need to replicate laws and regulations which are covered by membership of the EU. There are REAL benefits and COST SAVINGS on membership which have not been told to people like you by politicians who simply do not know what they are talking about but only pamper to get popular votes.

These laws and regulations, many presented and passed by the UK will need to be brought in to UK law and delegeated to departments in UK government.

So for you to come out with your blurb above shows the LEVEL of DISCONNECTION between what you think you are going to get and what you really are going to get!


No don't listen to the experts. Listen to those politicians who sit and manage the establishment for you playing musical chairs.


:(
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I was going to let it go, but seeing that you are persisting.

Dave Penman is NOT a civil servant, he is a union man. So his opinion isn't worth jack !

For all you or I know, May could be talking to senior civil servants in regard to their manning levels re Brexit.
Also this is a typical Guardian story, just about the only newspaper where remoanians have a voice.

HNY

Brexit means Brexit :LOL:
 
counter_violent said:
I was going to let it go, but seeing that you are persisting.

Dave Penman is NOT a civil servant, he is a union man. So his opinion isn't worth jack !

For all you or I know, May could be talking to senior civil servants in regard to their manning levels re Brexit.
Also this is a typical Guardian story, just about the only newspaper where remoanians have a voice.

HNY

Brexit means Brexit :LOL:
Click to expand...



No matey, my source is the Parliamentary Committee debates not the Guardian. The blurb comes from Institute for Government. Listen up.

Try watching freeview channel on 131 and hear it from the horses mouth.

If you recall I wrote about it in the past. You may also remember the 30,000 new recruits to manage the Brexit work load but let's call it a rumour for now. That's just an estimate.

As I say, some of the work maybe absorbed into existing departments and institutions adn bodies but not all. This doesn't even scrape the barrel in terms of debating which laws will be incorporated, which will be rejected by MPs and the Lords. That's not going to be cheap either.

As the UK farming union chappy said 80% of regulations relating to animal and food trade was introduced by the UK into the EU. That's going to take some doing seeing as how all Brexiters moaned about EU regulations - which has turned out to be an own goal.


Let it go you say??? Don't ask the experts, just get on with what you think you know and see where that'll lead you. :whistling
 
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Remainers and leavers both had strong arguments and many people, including myself, had understanding and sympathies with the arguments on both sides. I wanted, on balance, to remain despite many reservations. After all, it's only at rhe extremes where the blindness of certainty lives, most things having both pros and cons. However, what is done is done and let's make the best of the situation and get on with it. Maybe Atilla and c_v could bury the hatchet (not in each other's backs) and their relationship morph into a grudging mutual respect - I don't expect to see a love fest though !
Happy New Year.
Richard
 
Mr. Charts said:
Remainers and leavers both had strong arguments and many people, including myself, had understanding and sympathies with the arguments on both sides. I wanted, on balance, to remain despite many reservations. After all, it's only at rhe extremes where the blindness of certainty lives, most things having both pros and cons. However, what is done is done and let's make the best of the situation and get on with it. Maybe Atilla and c_v could bury the hatchet (not in each other's backs) and their relationship morph into a grudging mutual respect - I don't expect to see a love fest though !
Happy New Year.
Richard
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I like CV, never said otherwise. He knows it. ;)

Am getting on with it. Consequence of Brexit will transfer EU costs back to UK and plus some more whilst losing benefits.

The external non-quantified benefits of the EU will become real transaction costs of WTO trading to the UK. Simple cost benefit exercise.


How does don't listen to experts, let's get on with it help the situation?


Perhaps you guys are right as dealing with Brexit will create so many more jobs in London. Not quite what was promised but it should compensate for loss from the city in part. :rolleyes:
 
Exiting year ahead of us with the Brexit situation. Should see a lot of developments and the enevitable consequences. I think that it won't make much different to the actual GDP of the UK or Europe, there are bigger factors at play in the global economy
 
So, a new year and an old set of problems for the EU, which they show no signs of dealing with.


Redwood as usual talking a lot of common sense.


 
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Boy CV this is keen. Watched all three clips and made me laff. Redwood is a waste of space. Ignore.

Margaret Beckett spoke on the ball. Ignore her too coz she's an expert with all her past experience.

King spoke well. He too is an expert but is now rooting for the Brexit camp so listen to what he says. ;)

Yes we do know the Euro currency has issues. Cut to the chase. Euro currency member states will need to either take decision to harmonise fiscal policy or step away from the single currency.

King is right when he says the Euro currency is flawed and probably premature in its introduction.

However, as UK not member of the single currency, so what if EU has issues. Carry on as you were imo. That's my tuppance worth :)


As for Redwood, he says you should be more ambitious and optimistic and there is no need for transition process or UK to contribute any money to maintain any membership of the Union.

What ever floats your boats, wishing you all a delightful 2017 :clap::clap::clap:


Here is a Spaghetti Post card to start us off in our EU shaninigans.
Fugazy probably heard this one before... ;)

For several years, a man was having an affair with an Italian woman.
One night, she confided in him that she was pregnant.

Not wanting to ruin his reputation or his marriage, he paid her a large sum of money if she would go to Italy to secretly have the child.

If she stayed in Italy to raise the child, he would also provide child support until the child turned 18. She agreed, but asked how he would know when the baby was born.

To keep it discrete, he told her to simply mail him a post card, and write ‘Spaghetti’ on the back. He would then arrange for the child support payments to begin.

One day, about 9 months later, he came home to his confused wife. ‘Honey, ‘she said, ‘You received a very strange post card today.’ ‘Oh, just give it to me and I’ll explain it later,’ he said.

The wife watched as her husband read the card, turned white, and fainted.

On the card was written:

‘Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti.

Three with meatballs, two without. Send extra sauce.’
 
My goodness, first day back, legs under desk and POW!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839


Civil servant resigning from a most critical post at this point in time. Shocking. Don't forget Carney's departure is on the cards too.

To reiterate the political mugs in the Brexit camp do not appreciate the complexities of departure, unwrangling past deals and agreements and subsequently securing a new one. Or the costs internal and external for that matter.

You may not like to hear it from me, yours trully, but now hear it from a most respectful and well experienced Civil Servant Sir Ivan Rogers. Moreover, he was discreet about his messages, sadly his reports back to the PM were leaked to the BBC.

One should also bear in mind with any project there is Time, Cost and Quality to consider and all three objectives play-off against the other. So if one chooses to reduce departure time frame from 10 to 2 years, then that'll in due course impact cost of departure and the quality of the deal obtained.

I'm sure Gove, Redwood and IDS would like a simple Brexit and they sure talk a good shop. Sadly it's all a load of rollicks as soon they'll find out.


Feck it, I'm sure we are being too pessimistic here. Let's be more ambitious and optimistic about our future. There that should fix it. :whistling
 
Atilla said:
My goodness, first day back, legs under desk and POW!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38498839


Civil servant resigning from a most critical post at this point in time. Shocking. Don't forget Carney's departure is on the cards too.

To reiterate the political mugs in the Brexit camp do not appreciate the complexities of departure, unwrangling past deals and agreements and subsequently securing a new one. Or the costs internal and external for that matter.

You may not like to hear it from me, yours trully, but now hear it from a most respectful and well experienced Civil Servant Sir Ivan Rogers. Moreover, he was discreet about his messages, sadly his reports back to the PM were leaked to the BBC.

One should also bear in mind with any project there is Time, Cost and Quality to consider and all three objectives play-off against the other. So if one chooses to reduce departure time frame from 10 to 2 years, then that'll in due course impact cost of departure and the quality of the deal obtained.

I'm sure Gove, Redwood and IDS would like a simple Brexit and they sure talk a good shop. Sadly it's all a load of rollicks as soon they'll find out.


Feck it, I'm sure we are being too pessimistic here. Let's be more ambitious and optimistic about our future. There that should fix it. :whistling
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you think there is to negotiate.

EU has stated there will be no negotiations around the 4 freedoms, (previously 2).
So our negotiating position is very simple. We propose tariff free trade with all the members....the EU says sod off, so then we leave. If they want to trade with tariffs, then we do the same. The losers with be the member states who export more to us than we do to them. Politically across Europe, this will not play well and the villains will be the EU top brass. :)
 
counter_violent said:
I have no idea what you think there is to negotiate.

EU has stated there will be no negotiations around the 4 freedoms, (previously 2).
So our negotiating position is very simple. We propose tariff free trade with all the members....the EU says sod off, so then we leave. If they want to trade with tariffs, then we do the same. The losers with be the member states who export more to us than we do to them. Politically across Europe, this will not play well and the villains will be the EU top brass. :)
Click to expand...
Don't forget the fishing grounds and German car manufacturers... EU lobbying will hit new extremes.
 
counter_violent said:
I have no idea what you think there is to negotiate.

EU has stated there will be no negotiations around the 4 freedoms, (previously 2).
So our negotiating position is very simple. We propose tariff free trade with all the members....the EU says sod off, so then we leave. If they want to trade with tariffs, then we do the same. The losers with be the member states who export more to us than we do to them. Politically across Europe, this will not play well and the villains will be the EU top brass. :)
Click to expand...

I think you're underestimating just how much politicians can drag out and mess up something as simple and common sense as your post. What you posted is right and how it should be. But I think it could drag out for years, either because of incompetence, self-interest or corruption. Some politicians will get fat off it. There will be large scale 'studies' taken up, investigating a million and one things all to tell us the obvious that we knew before the study, huge amounts of money will be spent and wasted. And while this goes on, the City of London could slowly be reduced and outsourced.

In the end, UK will be ok. But Brexit was decided quite some time ago now. What has actually been done? 6 months later, there's a timetable to execute article 50...in some months...so that we can exit in some years from then. Everything is pathetically slow.
 
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