Bob Volman Price Action Scalping

[johnwolf]

No, I trade only futures. But price action principles will be applicable to any market. In fact, I had some email exchanges with Bob Volman, who suggested I stick with futures rather than learn another market.

I just looked through Al's books, and he recommends emini futures over forex because he says they offer more entries (on a 5 min. chart).

I'm no expert, but my feeling is to choose a market you are interested in and then learn it. The PA principles are universal.

John

Hi John,

I searched in Al Brooks's website, only found a few people trading forex using his method, not much discussion there. A few people in this thread mentioned books by Brooks here and planned to blend it with Volman's approach. Have you ever traded forex using Brooks price action principle?

I came across YTC Scalper by Lance Beggs one day. He scalps futures, not spot. I haven't got a chance to read his articles yet (the ebook is not free).

Best regards,

 

[shotgun77]

I searched in Al Brooks's website, only found a few people trading forex using his method, not much discussion there. A few people in this thread mentioned books by Brooks here and planned to blend it with Volman's approach. Have you ever traded forex using Brooks price action principle?

A friend of mine tried Volman's approach on EURUSD but he had better results with Brooks. So he went back to using Brooks on a 5 minute EURUSD. But he doesn't look for scalps. He looks for potential swings.

I use Volman on stocks with an equivalent 70 tick (30 second) chart. Seems to work ok except days where price meanders/sideways. I use a few of Brooks setups also and have found a few nice combos of Brooks/Volman.

Price action is price action. You have to find what works for the instrument you trade. The DD doesn't work that well on stocks. I haven't traded a DD in months.

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

Hi, these are my trades today. All four of them failed. What do you think, valid/invalid trades?

1/ BB
2/ DD
3/ RB
4/ RB

 

[BLS]

Hi, these are my trades today. All four of them failed. What do you think, valid/invalid trades?

1/ BB
2/ DD
3/ RB
4/ RB

1. I don't think the first one was invalid. I missed this one myself because I wasn't quite ready to trade. It was nice to see prices test the breakout level of the previous block. It would have been better if some dojis had formed on the bottom barrier before the break but I don't think this was a bad trade.

2. I skipped this one because of the pullback; it's was broken to the upside and it was short relative to the with-trend move. It's probably okay to be a bit more aggressive with a strong trend behind you but I've been burned too many times before so I opted to skip this one.

3. I had my barrier one pip higher for this one. I skipped it because I wanted to see more buildup; my stop would've have been 8 pip which was a bit steep for me. The pressure it clearly bullish but I think there was a bigger fight going on (we haven't reached these highs in awhile). There was an ARB opportunity after this one but I skipped it after seeing how quickly prices were slapped back from the 40 level. This feels like...uncharted territory. I mean the setup itself was pretty good but the context just...confused me so I thought it was better to sit on my hands and watch.

4. This one was cutting it close with the 10 pip target seeing as how there was that double bottom at the 1.2829 level; that was partly why I skipped this one. Today just seems like a weird day to me. You've got a bunch of news/announcements coming up Wed/Thurs so you think a lot of traders are probably going to wait like they did on Monday but then Moody's threatens to downgrade US debt and the market goes wild. I don't think this setup was bad it's just that today was weird.

I think you were just unlucky today.

 

[samich1262]

Hi, these are my trades today. All four of them failed. What do you think, valid/invalid trades?

1/ BB
2/ DD
3/ RB
4/ RB

Here are my thoughts,

1. I think I would have moved my entrance up 1 pip and treated some of those breaches as false breaks. The other level seems more significant. Then you could have treated the top of that next arch as your tipping point which would have gotten you out for a break-even.

2. This didn't reach the target? On my chart it looks like it has a clean 10 pips to work with and slippage shouldn't have been an issue. Are you going for 10 pips plus commission?

3. Not sure

4. I would not have taken this one for sure. It's an RB into ranging price action which could mean serious resistance.

I didn't do very well today either. Both today and yesterday, I was like one little decision away from ending the day with a profit. It is frustrating but I guess we will learn more from mistakes.

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

Here are my thoughts,

1. I think I would have moved my entrance up 1 pip and treated some of those breaches as false breaks. The other level seems more significant. Then you could have treated the top of that next arch as your tipping point which would have gotten you out for a break-even.

2. This didn't reach the target? On my chart it looks like it has a clean 10 pips to work with and slippage shouldn't have been an issue. Are you going for 10 pips plus commission?

3. Not sure

4. I would not have taken this one for sure. It's an RB into ranging price action which could mean serious resistance.

I didn't do very well today either. Both today and yesterday, I was like one little decision away from ending the day with a profit. It is frustrating but I guess we will learn more from mistakes.

1/ My thinking was, would the trade work out, it'd most likely hit the target anyway, so I didn't want to front run the entry, but I agree with you.
2/ Just 10 pips, I got slipped about 2 pips.

Anyway, thank both, you and BLS, for the input, I appreciate it.

 

[cha-ching]

Hi, these are my trades today. All four of them failed. What do you think, valid/invalid trades?

1/ BB
2/ DD
3/ RB
4/ RB

Is it possible to trade the small doji's in your first setup as either a DD break or SB? The entry bar would've been eight bars earlier than your BB entry. In this case the trade-equals-trend rule applies perfectly here: 14 pip decline from 13:20 to ~13:32, and 15 pip decline from ~13:38 to ~13:50.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

Is it possible to trade the small doji's in your first setup as either a DD break or SB? The entry bar would've been eight bars earlier than your BB entry. In this case the trade-equals-trend rule applies perfectly here: 14 pip decline from 13:20 to ~13:32, and 15 pip decline from ~13:38 to ~13:50.

Thanks for your opinion.

That would be low odds because right below the dojis you can see the block of price action blocking the path. If you trade DD then you want to have clear path (little or no resistance) on your way to target. The same applies for SB, at least in this case.

 

[cha-ching]

Hey samich1262,

I found that you used to use free MBTrading data and free NinjaTrader charting, which is exactly what I'm doing. However today I got pissed off by their bad data, very very bad: please look at the attachments, one is from OANDA live account the other's from NinjaTrader/MBTrading. I don't know whether MBTrading's live data server would've had the same problem as the demo data server. Any ideas?

Also you said you do visual backtesting bar by bar. May I ask what software and what data you use to do that?

Regarding ProRealTime, I wonder how its charting functions are compared with others, say, NinjaTrader. Is it easy to draw all kinds of lines, shapes, etc.? Do it have measuring tools, cross hair, etc.? What's its main drawbacks? Can you import data from other sources and display only pip not pipette to do visual backtesting (or market replay)? Does it have 30 second chart? Have you ever had data problem like the one I had today?

Sorry that's a lot of questions. I know I could sign a free demo with ProRealTime but I would love to hear opinions from you and others like BLS.

Thanks and best regards,

 

[samich1262]

Hey samich1262,

I found that you used to use free MBTrading data and free NinjaTrader charting, which is exactly what I'm doing. However today I got pissed off by their bad data, very very bad: please look at the attachments, one is from OANDA live account the other's from NinjaTrader/MBTrading. I don't know whether MBTrading's real data server would've had the same problem as the demo data server. Any ideas?

Also you said you do visual backtesting bar by bar. May I ask what software and what data you use to do that?

Regarding ProRealTime, I wonder how its charting functions are compared with others, say, NinjaTrader. Is it easy to draw all kinds of lines, shapes, etc.? Do it have measuring tools, cross hair, etc.? What's its main drawbacks? Can you import data from other sources and display only pip not pipette to do visual backtesting (or market replay)? Does it have 30 second chart? Have you ever had data problem like the one I had today?

Sorry that's a lot of questions. I know I could sign a free demo with ProRealTime but I would love to hear opinions from you and others like BLS.

Thanks and best regards,

Hi,

I did have that problem with NinjaTrader. I liked MBT Desktop but it didn't plot in 1 pip increments. ProRealTime has been by far the most accurate for me. It's pretty easy to draw shapes in. I'm using a pointer with a cross-hair. You can set the chart to plot in more time variations than any of the other programs that I've used. It has an (x) seconds or (x) ticks feature so you could set it to something obscure like 37 seconds or 89 ticks if you wanted. I'm really not sure about market replay, I haven't messed with that. I just scroll through the last 7 days of market data on the 3 main pairs that I watch. I wouldn't go back to NinjaTrader or MBTrader after using ProRealTime. Although, MBT Desktop would've been just as good if it had a 1 pip increment feature. Hope this helps!

 

[BLS]

No trades for me today. The market was consolidating around the 00 level after the German court ruling on the ESM. I missed out on that price action because I was still asleep. Anyone catch some pip during the first half of the NY session? I'm not sure if I'm being too conservative/being too fearful to trade or not.

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

So this is what was happening on my side today. One trade with profit, one came a 1 pip short and ended a loser, one was invalid and a loser (not shown in the charts), one scratched for zero. Overall it's +5 pips today and just one pip positive this month :clap:

The difference between big profits and small losses is usually so thin, I am starting to think abou cutting my position in half, because lately most of my trades go about 7-9 my way and then they often turn around.

I'd love comments from you guys on my trades, as always

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

Hey samich1262,

I found that you used to use free MBTrading data and free NinjaTrader charting, which is exactly what I'm doing. However today I got pissed off by their bad data, very very bad: please look at the attachments, one is from OANDA live account the other's from NinjaTrader/MBTrading. I don't know whether MBTrading's live data server would've had the same problem as the demo data server. Any ideas?

Hi, the thing with tick charts is that it will differ with any two providers. MBT being a market maker can't really offer you solid tick data unless they would stream them from someone else. Just try the Prorealtime trial, you'll immediately get an edge (that's what trading is all about, right?). Prorealtime gets it's data from inter-bank market, so every tick you get is probably some significant transaction, while at market maker a tick can mean virtually anything. At least that's how I understand it. Bob Volman's strategy is universal, but it is explained on data from Prorealtime and I think it works with them the best.

However, there is a major disadvantage that you won't get much historical data, so be ready to make screenshots when you register for your trial.

 

[samich1262]

No trades for me today. The market was consolidating around the 00 level after the German court ruling on the ESM. I missed out on that price action because I was still asleep. Anyone catch some pip during the first half of the NY session? I'm not sure if I'm being too conservative/being too fearful to trade or not.

I did not take any trades today. I saw what I thought was a tricky BB and skipped it. I'm having a little bit of trouble with IRBs and BBs this week. Thought I had it figured out last week, but I had a rough Monday and Tuesday with those setups. Will be giving that some attention this week. This looked like a countertrend BB to me:



I had my eye on this because Monday I took a similar setup in the opposite direction and got whipsawed. I didn't see that IRB coming at all. I really couldn't tell which way pressure was going at that point. Any thoughts on it? The BB looks bearish, but this is why I thought it could be tradeable. Probably very aggressive but tradeable:
-The IRB cut through the lows of the range without respecting them.
-No retest of the range.
-The market does not start trending. Instead it puts in several bottoms and then a higher double bottom inside the BB. Yes, it could use the former lows of the range as resistance but that bottoming action and higher double bottom shows that buyers are still interested. Also forms a reverse head and shoulders pattern.
-Magnet effect of the round number.
-The ceiling retest theory. My assumption was that if it did not start trending, it would at least go back up and retest the ceiling of the last arch of the IRB, which it did.

This is aggressive I think, and I wouldn't be comfortable trying to trade it yet, but it is important for me to analyze these false range breaks because many of us keep getting trapped in them. Including me!




-

 

[samich1262]

So this is what was happening on my side today. One trade with profit, one came a 1 pip short and ended a loser, one was invalid and a loser (not shown in the charts), one scratched for zero. Overall it's +5 pips today and just one pip positive this month :clap:

The difference between big profits and small losses is usually so thin, I am starting to think abou cutting my position in half, because lately most of my trades go about 7-9 my way and then they often turn around.

I'd love comments from you guys on my trades, as always

Looks good. Yeah, skipping that SB looked like the right call, I wouldn't do that with that top right there. The Euro session looked great today. I am still thinking about getting on a schedule to trade the complete European session until I get good, because sometimes it looks really smooth. Although other days it does nothing at all... lol.

 

[cha-ching]

No trades for me today. The market was consolidating around the 00 level after the German court ruling on the ESM. I missed out on that price action because I was still asleep. Anyone catch some pip during the first half of the NY session? I'm not sure if I'm being too conservative/being too fearful to trade or not.

My first trade using Volman's method. Please let me know if I miss anything. One thing I can think of is the vacuum effect from 12900 level. Otherwise, there was a decent trend; lower highs in the box; pre-breakout buildup; and squeeze.

Thanks!

 

[samich1262]

My first trade using Volman's method. Please let me know if I miss anything. One thing I can think of is the vacuum effect from 12900 level. Otherwise, there was a decent trend; lower highs in the box; pre-breakout buildup; and squeeze.

Thanks!

Which session was this during? The box itself looks ok, but it looks like prices weren't in a very strong trend aside from that one 17 pip drop, and wanted to retest that previous level before the big break. I missed one just like this on Monday. I think the key here is figuring out when the market is going to do a retest and when it isn't. I am definitely seeing a lot of retesting of 00 and 50 levels. Once the market tests it 2 or 3 times it will move on, but if it's the first time its broken a level like that then there's often a retest. Unless it breaks into a complete freefall.

 

[BLS]

I did not take any trades today. I saw what I thought was a tricky BB and skipped it. I'm having a little bit of trouble with IRBs and BBs this week. Thought I had it figured out last week, but I had a rough Monday and Tuesday with those setups. Will be giving that some attention this week. This looked like a countertrend BB to me:

-

This one caught me off guard because there wasn't much build up on the top barrier itself. I did not notice that mini higher double bottom at the time so I wasn't sure about the pressure.

My first trade using Volman's method. Please let me know if I miss anything. One thing I can think of is the vacuum effect from 12900 level. Otherwise, there was a decent trend; lower highs in the box; pre-breakout buildup; and squeeze.

Thanks!

I was worried about the 1.2900 level as well so I wasn't too sure about this trade. I ended up missing this break because I had to use the bathroom.

Which session was this during?

This one broke at the start of the NY session.

I've only taken one trade so far this week so I'll have to be extra careful not to blow up like I did last Friday. I didn't take many trades leading up to last Friday and I think my urge to trade just built up over the days and led me to take more bad trades. I think this might be a recurring pattern for me.

 

[cha-ching]

Which session was this during? The box itself looks ok, but it looks like prices weren't in a very strong trend aside from that one 17 pip drop, and wanted to retest that previous level before the big break. I missed one just like this on Monday. I think the key here is figuring out when the market is going to do a retest and when it isn't. I am definitely seeing a lot of retesting of 00 and 50 levels. Once the market tests it 2 or 3 times it will move on, but if it's the first time its broken a level like that then there's often a retest. Unless it breaks into a complete freefall.

It's right after New York open (8:05 AM EST).

Never mind, BLS already answered this for me...

 

[stehlikpetrmsncom]

I guess september didn't bring the price swings we were looking forward to, I think the boredom will kill me.