Best SB firm for limited risk account ?

[cshieldsx]

Does anyone know of any other SB firms other than IG that do limited risk accounts ? I'm a student (with no income and high debt) and for that reason no firm will give me an account unless its limited risk. I've been using one with IG, but I trade the ftse mainly and at a 4 point spread (due to 2 point spread + 2 points extra for compulsory guaranteed stop), which is pretty huge compared to a 1 point spread of Capitalspreads. But they don't do a limited risk account. Anyone know of any other limited risk accounts I could use ? Thanks

 

[Slorm]

T D Waterhouse do a limited risk SB account.

I've no idea what their spreads are like and (from memory) the minimum is £3 per point.

I've only used them for purchasing equities so I don't know how reliable their SB platform is.

 

[lurkerlurker]

Does anyone know of any other SB firms other than IG that do limited risk accounts ? I'm a student (with no income and high debt) and for that reason no firm will give me an account unless its limited risk. I've been using one with IG, but I trade the ftse mainly and at a 4 point spread (due to 2 point spread + 2 points extra for compulsory guaranteed stop), which is pretty huge compared to a 1 point spread of Capitalspreads. But they don't do a limited risk account. Anyone know of any other limited risk accounts I could use ? Thanks

Try TradIndex - they seem to have quite modest account requirements, and also small margin requirements. Their platform isn't the best out there, but they were the first account I opened, and I have always received excellent customer service. They have a 2 point spread on the FTSE, however the spreads on other instruments are quite wide. I think around £1k liquid should be enough with them.

Good luck with your trading. If you can't get an account, there is no point handicapping yourself with limited risk insurance - it is hard enough to break even as it is. I would suggest you paper trade until you become good enough on paper to give it a try with real funds, or perhaps manage a very small amount of Other Peoples Money. Perhaps you could have a more solvent friend or relative open a deposit account with your money, and you could trade for them if you get a Power of Attorney for the account?

 

[shadowninja]

I think reliability is an important thing. I'd rather have wider spreads but know I could bail out quickly if I realised I'd made a bad decision. IG's new system is pretty reliable.

 

[lurkerlurker]

I think reliability is an important thing. I'd rather have wider spreads but know I could bail out quickly if I realised I'd made a bad decision. IG's new system is pretty reliable.

TradIndex have answered the phone almost immediately the few times I have had to call them. IG seem fairly reliable too, but I haven't placed any live trades with them yet. I keep puredeal open as it is the best Linux friendly SB platform.

You can place market orders with TradIndex, which means if you need to cover a position you won't miss the price. No other SB firm offers this in a fast moving market. Naturally slippage may apply.

 

[shadowninja]

I use IG Index regularly with real money. With guaranteed stoplosses, they do run through but the positions are closed at the agreed stop.

 

[compare bets]

limited risk

Are you a serious trader?

If you are, I'm not sure why you need a limited risk account. Disapline and good money management are probably more important. Guaranteed stop losses andtrades that close automatically at the end of the day. CMC do this I think and have really tight spread - which is really important if your day trading - appologies if your not!

comments welcome.

 

[jkplay]

Don't advertise yourself as the SB comparison expert.

ok mate, if you went long on partygaming before the legislation came in and the share price dropped by 50% or wateva with a normal stop you would loose alot of money. With a guaranteed stop you would have been filled at the price you specify. Its like an option, and of course you pay for the privilege.

A guaranteed stop is a must IMHO if you take any kind or long term trade or need to be 100% about how much money your risking.

You don't know what you're on about so don't call yourself ''compare spreads''. Guarenteed stops arn't closed out every night by CMC, or any other SB firm I know of. Are you thinking about a MOC order?

If you day trade and will be infront of a screen most the time them you prob wont need limited risk, but for any kind of long term speculation it's a very hand bit of insurance.

You don't need a ''limited risk account'' but a standard one with the option of guarenteed stops so you can have a choise. Don't be tied into placing all trades with GS orders.

JK

 

[compare bets]

Granted it's difficult to cross wires if talking about somthing in general terms viz trading....long, short term....day or whatever.

I see your point about having the choice between guaranteed stops and limited risk.

The point I was trying to make was that these things tend to be swing and roundabouts. If you have both GS and limited risk your probably missing out on someting more important......like tighter spreads. I've found CMC to have quite tight spreads that's all.

I assumed the author of the original post was day trading.

bit touchy arn't we. anyway, you sound like you know what you're talking about.

Has the author of this post found a solution?

 

[jkplay]

lol, no im not being touchy but your name and signature irritates me and perhaps makes me more skeptical of what you are saying. Sorry if I cam accross that way CompareSpreads.

I have to agree that the best sb provider is CMC at the moment for what I do, but can see why IG would appeal. Its all a matter of taste between those two. Spreads are around about the same, cmc platform is much more advanced imho but IG has an excellent education package and when you place a guaranteed stop your margin is based on how much you stand to potentially loose while CMC stick to their NTR's or percentage margin requirements and doesn't change with a guarenteed stop in place. So you still need to deposit more money than you are actually risking (as far as I know - I do all my GS business with IG, but that certinaly used to be the case)

Personal taste really but wouldn't venture out of the two. The reason is as when you trade FX you need a firm that is open through the asian session and they are the only two with active dealing desks out there, please correct me if im wrong compare. City Index might do but their crappy java platform is useless and margin requirements and spreads too high.

To all the SB snobs - ITS SIMPLY A TAX FREE FINANCIAL DERIVATIVE. Don't let the word betting put you off (some banks (Natwest, RBS and Barclays) call it spread trading to get around it!)

JK

 

[lurkerlurker]

lol, no im not being touchy but your name and signature irritates me and perhaps makes me more skeptical of what you are saying. Sorry if I cam accross that way CompareSpreads.

I have to agree that the best sb provider is CMC at the moment for what I do, but can see why IG would appeal. Its all a matter of taste between those two. Spreads are around about the same, cmc platform is much more advanced imho but IG has an excellent education package and when you place a guaranteed stop your margin is based on how much you stand to potentially loose while CMC stick to their NTR's or percentage margin requirements and doesn't change with a guarenteed stop in place. So you still need to deposit more money than you are actually risking (as far as I know - I do all my GS business with IG, but that certinaly used to be the case)

Personal taste really but wouldn't venture out of the two. The reason is as when you trade FX you need a firm that is open through the asian session and they are the only two with active dealing desks out there, please correct me if im wrong compare. City Index might do but their crappy java platform is useless and margin requirements and spreads too high.

To all the SB snobs - ITS SIMPLY A TAX FREE FINANCIAL DERIVATIVE. Don't let the word betting put you off (some banks (Natwest, RBS and Barclays) call it spread trading to get around it!)

JK

I know - I want to throw up when I hear "financial spread trading". It just sounds like a totally invented phrase - I know they don't want to call it betting, but it is and that is how it is taxed. All trading is essentially gambling if you take the definition that you are wagering your funds against another based on the outcome of an uncertain event. People need to get over themselves. Unfortunately, some of the tactics used by the bucket shops make it fairly impossible to profit if you are a short term trader, and I think it is these tactics which cause problems with the perception of SB.

 

[jkplay]

Thats right Lurker, couldn't agree more. I also want to repost something I have posted in another section of t2w but feel it should be under spreadbetting for newby's doing their research and perhaps help people who are loosing money:

1. If you can help it don't place market orders with them. Do your analysis, place a limit in place (if done would be ideal) and they can't f*** you over.

2. DEAL WITH A BIG FIRM!! CMC/IG would be the only two worth trading with IMHO. WS is a scam with constant dealer approval required (as far as I've been told!) and City are really dropping behind the competition with their platform, spreads, margin... you name it.

3. Don't look at the pretty lights flash and be tempted to dive into markets you havn't done you TA/Fundamental analysis on.... it's easy to loose alot of money like that.

4. Work towards a target price and dont use stops according to the size of you account, place them at a distance where you are confident your opening view is wrong.

Something that irritates me is when people think the firm is against them. The big marketmakers hedge their overall exposure and not everybody's individual trades (notice I say BIG marketmakers). SB firms get a bad rep buy £5 a pointers who loose their cash with bad trades and start laying into the firm for manipulation, malicious stop filling and wateva else.

Deal with a big marketmaker, have discipline and if you loose a couple of grand don't blame them for your bad decisions (unless you have a good reason to of course)

If you trade size DMA is the only option, futuresbetting if you don't wana pay tax but I think the way to go is DMA CFDs as you can offset some of your CGT exposure and have pure transparency to the underlying market, check liquidity and participate in the book (effectivly!) This only applies to people trading SIZE or wanting to accurately hedge exposure btw

JK

 

[gle101]

Thats right Lurker, couldn't agree more. I also want to repost something I have posted in another section of t2w but feel it should be under spreadbetting for newby's doing their research and perhaps help people who are loosing money:

1. If you can help it don't place market orders with them. Do your analysis, place a limit in place (if done would be ideal) and they can't f*** you over.

2. DEAL WITH A BIG FIRM!! CMC/IG would be the only two worth trading with IMHO. WS is a scam with constant dealer approval required (as far as I've been told!) and City are really dropping behind the competition with their platform, spreads, margin... you name it.

3. Don't look at the pretty lights flash and be tempted to dive into markets you havn't done you TA/Fundamental analysis on.... it's easy to loose alot of money like that.

4. Work towards a target price and dont use stops according to the size of you account, place them at a distance where you are confident your opening view is wrong.

Something that irritates me is when people think the firm is against them. The big marketmakers hedge their overall exposure and not everybody's individual trades (notice I say BIG marketmakers). SB firms get a bad rep buy £5 a pointers who loose their cash with bad trades and start laying into the firm for manipulation, malicious stop filling and wateva else.

Deal with a big marketmaker, have discipline and if you loose a couple of grand don't blame them for your bad decisions (unless you have a good reason to of course)

If you trade size DMA is the only option, futuresbetting if you don't wana pay tax but I think the way to go is DMA CFDs as you can offset some of your CGT exposure and have pure transparency to the underlying market, check liquidity and participate in the book (effectivly!) This only applies to people trading SIZE or wanting to accurately hedge exposure btw

JK

You really got some good advice here that will help novice traders, very good, but throwing out worlds like scam for a SB company that you don't even trade with, is not very balanced. All SB's use means of securing a fixed spread (seen from the SB point of view). This doesn't necessarily mean that they are a scam outfit. However, we need more strict regulation in this industry and hopefully the MIFID "Best excecution" directive is a first step in this direction.

 

[jkplay]

yes, I apoligise for that, I like to give my points asif I was chatting informally and I supose that calling them a SCAM is very strong because of course they are a legitimate business with a few very irritating differences in the way they conduct their business.

I think MIFID will certainly clean up alot of the companies in terms of execution and we will see how the industry reacts from there...

 

[gle101]

yes, I apoligise for that, I like to give my points asif I was chatting informally and I supose that calling them a SCAM is very strong because of course they are a legitimate business with a few very irritating differences in the way they conduct their business.

I think MIFID will certainly clean up alot of the companies in terms of execution and we will see how the industry reacts from there...

Thanks a lot for your positive reaction to my post. Yes I kind of understood that you used that word just to emphasize irregularities that none of us like in this industry.
Yes traders do expect something to happen at the end of this year when MIFID directives is supposed to be implemented. There will probably also be an additional period of adjustment and transition for some companies.

 

[jkplay]

Thanks a lot for your positive reaction to my post. Yes I kind of understood that you used that word just to emphasize irregularities that none of us like in this industry.
Yes traders do expect something to happen at the end of this year when MIFID directives is supposed to be implemented. There will probably also be an additional period of adjustment and transition for some companies.

I copied the post from a thread of pleople haveing problems with worldspreads so that was why it's in there. Very unjustifiable overwise!

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=25441

Glee I notice that you have a fair amount of experiance of trading with worldspreads from your worldspreads upgraded post. You said:-

''Worldspreads with their 1 point spread offer, on the most interesting instruments, instant execution and incredibly fast feed which follows the underlying asset, is an unbeatable combination in the spread betting business today. I would even say, that compared to direct market access brokers, their offer is hard to beat as one has to add the brokers commission to the spread obtained. On top of that, compared to DMA's, you can put much less money at stake in the trade thus minimize risk for better money management. Besides you also have the profit tax free (for professionals, I am unsure of this). Yes I know it sounds like a commercial, but I am trading with other brokers as well and can tell the difference upfront''

I have to say that I found your review very positive, are you still trading with worldspreads and are you still finding their execution and so on... excellent? What made you decide on worldspreads over the competition?

JK

 

[gle101]

I copied the post from a thread of pleople haveing problems with worldspreads so that was why it's in there. Very unjustifiable overwise!

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=25441

Glee I notice that you have a fair amount of experiance of trading with worldspreads from your worldspreads upgraded post. You said:-

''Worldspreads with their 1 point spread offer, on the most interesting instruments, instant execution and incredibly fast feed which follows the underlying asset, is an unbeatable combination in the spread betting business today. I would even say, that compared to direct market access brokers, their offer is hard to beat as one has to add the brokers commission to the spread obtained. On top of that, compared to DMA's, you can put much less money at stake in the trade thus minimize risk for better money management. Besides you also have the profit tax free (for professionals, I am unsure of this). Yes I know it sounds like a commercial, but I am trading with other brokers as well and can tell the difference upfront''

I have to say that I found your review very positive, are you still trading with worldspreads and are you still finding their execution and so on... excellent? What made you decide on worldspreads over the competition?

JK

Yes after the speed upgrade last year Worldspreads really had a great thing going. I had been trading with them before their upgrade. After the upgrade it was like a brand new company. Instant execution and notification, tightest spread in the SB industry, it was just great trading with them. The speed of the quotes (compared with live exchange feed) were just amazing. Not an issue for about a few months, I did hundreds of trades with the same brilliant result (I am not talking of profit). Not a re-quote or dealer intervention in sight. At the same time Worldspread was receiving as I saw it unjustified criticisms based on pre upgrade issue that were not valid. I started the thread in order to give a more balanced view of my trading experience with them. Good Lord, was I hammered on the board to start with, ha ha! Just imagine I was even accused by some guys for being employed by Worldspreads.

After a couple of months of trading, just before Christmas 2006, something suddenly happened at the company. The marketing director at the time got a new financial job in Hong Kong. In a flash, a lot of traders were put on intervention by the dealer, ironically enough, myself being one of them. The company policy clearly changed and there were new issues appearing weekly. One can notice this by reading the thread, my outlook for the company gradually started to change towards the negative side, this is also reflected in my late postings.

I still have an account with WS but I don't trade actively with them. The reason for this is that I am still on referral to a dealer. This is not a nice trading environment for any trader, even if they still got a tight spread on some instrument, there are far better options around to choose from. I have also stopped writing about them as trading actively with them has become impossible. I simply have nothing more to say about WS on the thread.

Today I really don't know where the company stands. I did contact them a couple of month ago, but they still firmly and politely refused to change my trading status. Right now it doesn’t bother me because I have moved on to other options. Worldspreads might today have cleared up some of these negative issues, although, this is for others to comment on. I am quite sure that there are a lot of traders around, who are trading actively with Worldspreads and even find their service to be up to good standards.