Hi lurker - good to see you again
I hardly slagged off mrmarcus in my post did I?
Yes, I was one of the moderators and cleaned any straight attacks on him as well as infracting the offenders. I also had many discussions with him but could not convince him that many of the posts raising questions or disagreement were quite legitimate, well within the guidelines and not the personal attack/insult that he took them to be. That is why he left.
So not ashamed of myself one jot - just sorry that he went, both from a personal view and T2W's.
Hi Jon,
Thanks for your replies. Not sure if it is good to see me as of the few times I've contributed since I stopped posting regularly in 2008, the last twice have been to have a pop at you about how you've represented mr.marcus!
I've (obviously) no issue with you bringing up the WOT threads, or the fact that you had a very talented member here in the past who gave some very good calls. Credit where it is due. I object to the personal comments and your interpretation of both the reason he removed some of his work from this site and also why he stopped posting altogether.
As most of the people reading your comment were not privy to any of the conversations which happened many years ago, both on and off forum, and as mr.marcus isn't posting here to give his own view, then people can get the
wrong impression. This is a little more sinister to me, as whatever the shortcomings of t2w are and were, you were in a special position once to influence it to be a better place.
I cannot help think that when you acknowledge Mark's trading prowess while at the same time suggesting that his departure was essentially a
childish temper tantrum rather than a considered decision, without giving any of the context, that you're leaving readers with less than the full facts. It also just seems a tiny bit
self serving - both for you and the site - to seek to sidestep the legitimate grievances that Mark and some other members had with how t2w was run.
There probably isn't a
single reason why Mark made the decision to remove his posts, and likewise for his decision to stop posting. So unless we want to burden the audience with a full discussion of a member they have never interacted with, we probably shouldn't include any personal comments or try to explain what we guess his motives might have been.
However, as you've already given your view of why he left, I'll share what I feel is relevant from discussions I have had with Mark, in person, about this very issue. Then with a more rounded view of his possible reasons for leaving, which don't unfairly characterise him is being in a fit of pique, childish, or taking his ball and going home because of legitimate disagreements, I think we can leave it at that.
#1 - members attempting to have a serious discussion were often interrupted by disruptive elements, with the result that threads became side tracked or consumed with bickering. Whether ordinary internet trolls, folks doing it for the lulz, or some slow witted members who didn't want to think but insisted on uncritically accepting the same old hobby horses, the net result was that both experienced traders and those trying to learn more were thwarted and decided to continue the discussions off site or stop altogether. The owner of t2w and the moderators at the time share responsibility with the human condition for this state of affairs. People are people, and yet perhaps with better moderation some parts of the site could have been kept usable for members wishing to advance their trading knowledge and personal development. Interestingly, we see from "t2w feedback" that this is considered by some to be an ongoing problem.
Mark deciding that it wasn't worth continuing to invest the considerable time and energy required to make a meaningful contribution here can hardly be construed as being intolerant of dissent.
#2 - Mark believed the site owners have a
vested interest in ignorance, because this drives sales of the products which t2w is
paid to advertise. I have it from Mark directly that he thought this filtered into moderator policy, at least informally, and dictated the level of discussion possible on the site. This is one of the reasons why he encouraged those he was mentoring to cease posting here. One of Mark's team - "sandpiper" - stopped posting after remarking that this policy had become "the final nail" in the coffin of t2w, turning it from a forum where members could enjoy serious discussion into merely "a billboard".
This is not the place to discuss t2w advertising policy, but Mark withdrawing due to recognising that the type of independent thinking and personal responsibility he was trying to foster would not help sell courses, seminars, or induce people to start gambling in spread betting accounts is hardly intolerance of conflicting opinions.
#3 - the level of the audience. Whether from majority or simple vocal minority, we saw utter lack of decency. Disrespect. Closed minded people accusing mr.marcus of lying about his abilities due to their refusal to believe that some people might succeed where they have failed. Blame the human condition for this, until you get incompetent "community managers" who think it wise to reinstate members who admit to publishing child pornography here. After the member was reinstated, he used his position of "trust" here as a "respected contributor" to defraud other t2w members out of tens of thousands of pounds. Great community management there! These are the facts.
It is perfectly reasonable to consider that Mark withdrew due to the lack of appreciation and gratitude for his work, and also the apparent inability of the audience to derive any benefit. Again, nothing to do with childish fits of pique or intolerance of dissent.
The subtext of your comments - that if Mark had tolerated some perfectly acceptable discussion he could still be here and we'd be one big happy trading community - is, in my view,
misleading. I accept that you may not be doing this intentionally, but also given your time on this site and that many of these issues were raised in your presence, you cannot be unware of them. Hence why I react so strongly to your interpretation of "
the reason" Mark no longer posts. Especially when those reading your comments have no other information to go on.
So no, t2w is not going to weasel out of accepting their responsibility for being unable to provide the type of environment where top level experts can share their knowledge with beginners. And neither should the members whose conduct was faulty. Or the t2w staff and moderators at the time who could have made a serious difference.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Owners, moderators, and members didn't stick their necks out far enough to create a community they could be proud of - the type of community which traders of mr.marcus' calibre would want to be a part of. Bottom line.
Last and certainly not least - quality contributions of the type advanced by mr.marcus in the past and DaxDayTrader30 in the present become popular and drive a hell of a lot of traffic (= revenue) to the site. Why would mr.marcus want his hard work to be used to financially support those who, from his point of view, were disrespectful of his contributions by not working hard to maintain an environment where traders could learn and grow - the stated purpose of t2w - but instead turn the site into a vehicle to sell spread bets?
It is possible to have a vibrant online community devoted to learning. The servers need to be paid for somehow, but people who value a resource will contribute. See wikipedia. Or you can run it as a business for profit. But then your obligation is to the balance sheet and the interests of your customers (advertisers), and necessarily what is best for the members be damned. This is all just common sense, nothing to do with churlishly deciding to take your ball and go home because somebody questioned you.
When I said you ought to be ashamed, I was referring to putting across a one sided view that leaves many relevant issues out when you know full well through discussions we've had in the past the Mark considered these factors relevant - in which case there was more to his departure than you suggested. That to my mind is less than honest, and the reason I posted. Not to stand up for Mark, who could care less what t2w members think of him, but to inform readers who might otherwise be misled and to hold t2w admin and staff to account for the withdrawal of valuable (if not valued) contributors. And while you did do some intervention against some of the more egregious disruptors, only you know whether you did
all you could during your time as a moderator to help make the type of community you would want to be a member of.
That's the problem with society. Does the individual do enough to advance his own morals and standards within his own sphere of influence in order that he can live in a community consonant with his values? Many think its someone elses problem, and if nobody is prepared to stand up and be counted, then everything goes. Those who have morality withdraw from a community which abdicates morality and personal responsibility if they are able - this goes equally with physical neighbourhoods and online forums.
Back to trading, hope we can draw a line under this and that you stop misrepresenting the reasons for mr.marcus no longer posting.
Cheers Jon, and continued success to all.
Edit: if this is the wrong place to discuss, then maybe somebody could move barjon and my posts on this point to a new thread out the way on the feedback section of the site.
