Trend following not working on my 7,000 backtests !

This is a discussion on Trend following not working on my 7,000 backtests ! within the Trading Systems forums, part of the Methods category; Joe, they won't place a trade because they don't want to contribute..thats the bottom line imo i'm thinking of bailing ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 13, 2017, 6:45pm   #61
 
piphoe's Avatar
Joined Oct 2015
Joe, they won't place a trade because they don't want to contribute..thats the bottom line imo

i'm thinking of bailing myself, getting nothing out of this

you noticed my posts have going down?
__________________
they play so bad why do they punish me
phil hellmuth
piphoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 7:32pm   #62
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by piphoe View Post
Joe, they won't place a trade because they don't want to contribute..thats the bottom line imo

i'm thinking of bailing myself, getting nothing out of this

you noticed my posts have going down?
I believe they don't put money on it because they already know it doesn't work. The reason for their insisting it works is for ulterior motives. With our spammer friend here, it's easy to see he's just pumping for the blogger who claims it works. The blogger blogs because the return is greater from blogging than from trading. Essentially he can't trade.

You would be wise to bail. The cost of getting to a point where it can produce a return is beyond anything people can imagine. But you would not have done worst than others, 99% of whom lose.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 8:08pm   #63
Joined Oct 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
I believe they don't put money on it because they already know it doesn't work. The reason for their insisting it works is for ulterior motives. With our spammer friend here, it's easy to see he's just pumping for the blogger who claims it works. The blogger blogs because the return is greater from blogging than from trading. Essentially he can't trade.

You would be wise to bail. The cost of getting to a point where it can produce a return is beyond anything people can imagine. But you would not have done worst than others, 99% of whom lose.
do you trade for a living then Joe? i cant recall you saying anything about it, or are you employed? ( I am the latter)
Kaeso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 8:20pm   #64
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
do you trade for a living then Joe? i cant recall you saying anything about it, or are you employed? ( I am the latter)
I am for fun. But I believe for living is possible.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 8:30pm   #65
FXX
Joined Oct 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
I am for fun. But I believe for living is possible.
For fun? Does that imply you are gambling?
FXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 8:48pm   #66
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by FXX View Post
For fun? Does that imply you are gambling?
No, it implies the size isn't sufficient for living.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 8:53pm   #67
FXX
Joined Oct 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
No, it implies the size isn't sufficient for living.
Okay, I just thought it was odd to use the word fun next to trading for a living.
FXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 9:16pm   #68
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by FXX View Post
Okay, I just thought it was odd to use the word fun next to trading for a living.
I find it odd you say that. I genuinely find trading fun. When I was young, I played endless computer and physical games. Now the only game I play is trading. It's great fun. The game depth and sophistication is amazing and beyond anything I previously played.

Last edited by EnlightenedJoe; Nov 13, 2017 at 9:22pm.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 9:33pm   #69
FXX
Joined Oct 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
I find it odd you say that. I genuinely find trading fun. When I was young, I played endless computer and physical games. Now the only game I play is trading. It's great fun. The game depth and sophistication is amazing and beyond anything I previously played.
I enjoy the research aspect but dont find anything enjoyable in looking at charts or entering and managing trades. It's probably good I am thia way because when emotions are involved you tend to overlook information, well I do.
FXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 10:10pm   #70
Joined Oct 2015
Its interesting that you called it fun that really made me think.

I do enjoy trading when I am trading well..but i enjoy it like i'm enjoying work, because i do it like its a job (not an easy one!)
Kaeso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 13, 2017, 11:30pm   #71
Joined Apr 2016
Well, I am definitely not doing it like a job. I know of no job, even those that I liked and did them for fun, required me to do nothing and still paid me. Trading is lulz.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks! The following members like this post: piphoe
Old Nov 14, 2017, 5:59pm   #72
Joined Oct 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
Well, I am definitely not doing it like a job. I know of no job, even those that I liked and did them for fun, required me to do nothing and still paid me. Trading is lulz.
Its become mostly a business for me. Still fun but I am in it for the money now.
Traderjohnsblog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 2017, 6:45pm   #73
Joined Oct 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
Well, I am definitely not doing it like a job. I know of no job, even those that I liked and did them for fun, required me to do nothing and still paid me. Trading is lulz.
Oh I see, so trading is a bit of a laugh to you, you do nothing and get paid. It sounds great!
Kaeso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 14, 2017, 6:59pm   #74
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
Oh I see, so trading is a bit of a laugh to you, you do nothing and get paid. It sounds great!
I generally laugh after 10pm, not before.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 2, 2018, 3:11pm   #75
Joined Feb 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
I believe they don't put money on it because they already know it doesn't work. The reason for their insisting it works is for ulterior motives. With our spammer friend here, it's easy to see he's just pumping for the blogger who claims it works. The blogger blogs because the return is greater from blogging than from trading. Essentially he can't trade.

You would be wise to bail. The cost of getting to a point where it can produce a return is beyond anything people can imagine. But you would not have done worst than others, 99% of whom lose.
Hi, slow to this because I don't monitor this board regularly, as others have said I'm mostly on elitetrader.

I'm Rob Carver, the nefarious blogger of which you speak. I'd like to correct a few misconceptions if I may:

I do in fact trade with real money

I make no money from blogging or running BS trading courses or any of that stuff, as a thorough search of the internet will prove. I appreciate that there are a lot of scam artists in this business who pretend to be something they are not, but I'm not in that category. In fact I actively spend time turning away people trying to involve me in such ventures, or to write introducing broker contracts.

You can verify from public information* that I'm not a snake oil salesman, but an ex hedge fund portfolio manager who retired at the age of 39. This suggests that (a) I might know a little more about trading than the average person, (b) I've probably got a few quid socked away and I don't need to stoop to appearing on instagram pretending to trade besides the pool of a rented house, and begging people to sign up for my exclusive trading tips.

* https://news.efinancialcareers.com/u...oups-ahl-fund/
https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_Ind...000000LUkMJAA1
I've also done loads of podcasts and written books claiming to be Robert Carver, who worked for AHL. They would have sued me by now if it wasn't true!

I make a little money from selling books, and arguably my blog is partly a shop window for those books, but really is 'a little money'. The economics of the book industry mean that specialist non fiction books which take ages to write will eventually, if you're lucky, end up paying you about minimum wage if you work out your hourly rate.

I make nothing from speaking at conferences, and another relatively small amount of beer from doing some lecturing.

Since I retired from fund management my earnings break down is roughly as follows:
- trading 92%
- book sales 4.5%
- consulting & academic lecturing 3%

I'm excluding from this returns and dividends from my passive investment portfolio.
Of course you have no way of verifying these figures, although my fundseeder account is visible if you subscribe https://fundseeder.com/trading_account/1246. Again though I could have created multiple accounts and just shown you the best one, but you'll see if you can click through that if I was going to cheat I probably would have created something a bit more stellar (my Sharpe Ratio is a mere 1.27; nowhere near good enough to stand out).

Whilst it may seem hard to believe in this cynical world I am genuinely in the position where I have enough money and I'm genuinely interested only in sharing my expertise with others. If I really wanted to monetize my skills I'd go back to hedge fund managing (I still get plenty of offers, including one this morning); that is a far more renumerative role than being some kind of dodgy trading snake oil salesman.

Now back to the subject of this post. I'm often classified by others as some kind of trend following cheerleader. I'm not. You must be mixing me up with Mike Covel.

This is probably because I have a habit of using trend following rules as one of the examples I use when explaining broader concepts. And of course I used to work for a fund that mainly did trend following. But I only have about 40% of my trading capital allocated to that particular style. Sadly being associated with trend following does mean you are tarnished by association with some of the loopier people in that field. But it's a false syllogism to say:

- "X is a mad trading snake oil salesman"
- "X is a trend follower"
- "Rob Carver is a trend follower"

...therefore "Rob Carver is a mad trading snake oil salesman"

If you were to read any of my stuff you'd realise that I have much broader interests in systematic trading. Specifically one thing I like to do is get people to think and understand whether their results really have any statistical evidence.

Originally my name was mentioned because I had some ideas about what might make trend following work, so let's talk about that for a moment.

It's important to say that just because trend following has worked in the past (and there's plenty of evidence of that), it won't necessarily work in the future (if you were more familiar with my stuff you'll know I spend a lot of time banging this particular drum).

It's also a relatively low Sharpe Ratio strategy so there may well be longish periods when it doesn't work, and you need stacks of evidence to prove or disprove historic performance. Finally the original poster performed a test on a relatively short period of time (13 years) and a small set of instruments (9) drawn from a single asset class (FX), with a single trend following rule.

This is nowhere near evidence to prove anything... in fact if he had found that the trend following system worked I would strongly caution him against trading it. The OP also used relatively short time frames in an instrument that is very expensive to trade; thus creating a headwind of high costs that most any strategy would struggle to overcome, unless the backtest was massively over fitted.

I'll leave you with a quote from earlier in the thread that was kind, and (though I'm clearly biased) hopefully accurate:

"Anyone who trades or has an interest in trading can learn something from Rob Carver's work whether you use it or not."

You might for example learn that trading spot FX is far too expensive for a retail trader, which is far more useful to you than any supposed magic trend following system that someone might try and sell you.

Anyway, sorry for the long interruption. As you were.

Rob Carver, AKA globalarbtrader
globalarbtrader is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks! The following members like this post: IceMan
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Differences between backtests done by several software kojinakata Trading Systems 8 Mar 29, 2015 2:51pm
$1 to $1,000,000,000 Tribute to S1quash Hotch Trading Journals 7 Aug 6, 2011 7:22pm
Metatrader backtests flawed oildaytrader Trading Software 19 Nov 4, 2009 8:57pm
Long chart history for backtests.. dbinvest Forex 0 Dec 20, 2007 12:01pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)