my journal 2

This is a discussion on my journal 2 within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by travis I've had a capital of 20k and even 30k before, and it often came from starting ...

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Old Jul 10, 2010, 2:06pm   #1006
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re: my journal 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
I've had a capital of 20k and even 30k before, and it often came from starting with a few thousands, but I still felt pressure to make more money and make it faster, and this lead to discretionary trading, and blowing out accounts.

You see, as I wrote before, my parents and everyone, even I, agree on the fact that to quit my job I'd need to have a capital of at least 500k, and then I would have to set it aside (not even invest it). And the more I dislike my job and the city I am living in, the more I have been rushing to that 500k, sometimes rushing things worked (I doubled my account for several months in a row), but inevitably, taking these huge risks, lead to blowing out my account once every few months. And this is just the good last 2 years I am talking about, thanks to automated trading, because, before automated trading, I was only trading discretionary (while developing the systems) and blowing out my account practically every month, continuously, ever since 1997, yet never seeing any doubling of capital: it was just going down from the start to the end. I just lost everything over and over again. Usually went from a few thousands to 0, over and over again.

Also, and I am again referring to the last two years, I could not take the systems' drawdown. When I came home and found a 1000 dollars loss by the systems, or even just 500 dollars, I'd engage in revenge trading to make it back. Sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't, and when it didn't, I got even more upset. I take losses personally. I take everything personally (it offended me when you wrote I have a "weak personality"), even a neighbour slamming the door, which he/she did right now. I get offended easily, and I am intolerant. I am a control freak. Ideally, I'd like to have the world under control and to be able to kill people I don't like and who bother me, or at least make them disappear. The first people on my list are the neighbours.
Where's the little voice in your head telling you not to revenge trade? That should grow everytime you do it. Mine does. Well there you have it, you need 500k to progress not 20k. What does that tell you? Get your automated system to work on a small amount? The goal isnt to make money but show you can make a return consistently. Dont even look at it like earning a living off it, but just a project? Then you can work out how to turn it into a hedge fund or get people to invest in you. Even i would if you could prove you make consistent returns.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 2:56pm   #1007
 
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re: my journal 2

Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:11pm   #1008
 
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re: my journal 2

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Originally Posted by brettus View Post
Where's the little voice in your head telling you not to revenge trade? That should grow everytime you do it. Mine does. Well there you have it, you need 500k to progress not 20k. What does that tell you? Get your automated system to work on a small amount? The goal isnt to make money but show you can make a return consistently. Dont even look at it like earning a living off it, but just a project? Then you can work out how to turn it into a hedge fund or get people to invest in you. Even i would if you could prove you make consistent returns.
Yes, thanks for the offer. As a matter of fact, right now that's exactly what's happening. I got in touch with someone else reading this journal, who's investing in my systems right now. I knew it from the start, and it's happened as I knew it would happened: while trading the systems with someone else's money, the urge to trade discretionary was much less, and I was able to resist it: the urge to be reliable/responsible and keep my word was much stronger than the urge to gamble. Interestingly, I was trading the same systems for someone else and, on another server, for my account. Two weeks ago, there was quite a bit of a drawdown in the managed caused by my systems (and by the unusual markets). In my account, instead, there could have been less of a drawdown because I second-guessed my systems from the start and entered at a better price, but instead of losing less, as was going to happen, I kept that same trade open longer and lost more. Then, because of that disappointment, I engaged in revenge trading... in short the managed account experienced a drawdown, and my account was blown out.

Regarding that little voice in my head, it never grew, I never heard any voice - if anything I heard a voice saying "**** them all". That's the sick side of me. There's something irrational and defective in my behaviour, just like in many other humans: some people drink themselves to death, others smoke... others abuse their children (like my dad)... the difference with trading is that it makes you realize faster that you are hurting yourself. You can't keep on saying that you trade to make money, if you're constantly losing money. Sooner or later you have to stop, even before understanding why you are doing it. I still don't know why I behaved the way I behaved: now I know there was some compulsion/compulsiveness elements to it. I thought I was trading to make money, or at least to learn to make money, but after 13 years, it's obviously not a good explanation, or at least not the whole explanation.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:12pm   #1009
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re: my journal 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamus View Post
Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
The rock just gets bigger and bigger each year, if you don't continue to grow your balance. It's like world's strongest man when they pick up the atlas balls, if you dont get the last ball up first time then it becomes increasingly more difficult to pick it up. You need a reality check Travis. 1k a month is better than +2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2, -22. Risk 1%-2% per trade. You're not better than that. This is what most successful traders do. I'm sure alot of them have gone through the same stupidity as all of us risking more. How much can you make a month realistically using 1%-2% pre trade per month?
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:15pm   #1010
 
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re: my journal 2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamus View Post
Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
Yes, that's a very good point. So far I seem doomed to keep on making unrealistic and therefore self-defeating efforts. Thanks to this journal at least I am opening my eyes to what the **** is up with me. I definitely belong in the category of compulsive gamblers so far. At the same time, I am a very hard-working mechanical trader. But the gambling side of me has been overwhelming.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:26pm   #1011
 
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re: my journal 2

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Originally Posted by brettus View Post
The rock just gets bigger and bigger each year, if you don't continue to grow your balance. It's like world's strongest man when they pick up the atlas balls, if you dont get the last ball up first time then it becomes increasingly more difficult to pick it up. You need a reality check Travis. 1k a month is better than +2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2, -22. Risk 1%-2% per trade. You're not better than that. This is what most successful traders do. I'm sure alot of them have gone through the same stupidity as all of us risking more. How much can you make a month realistically using 1%-2% pre trade per month?
Yeah, I am here to show how I am, and get criticized, just as you guys are doing - and force myself to open my eyes. And I agree with you. I can reason fine, as long as I don't have a TWS platform opened up in front of me, and I can see things clearly.

But when the markets are open, and TWS is running in front of my eyes, and I see prices moving and my own account has enough margin, I stop reasoning and I look like a drug addict. Now that my account has not enough margin to trade, I can run my systems in forward-testing and manage the other account (as I said, I don't gamble with other people's money) without any self-defeating urges.

You see, just as I wrote in my profile a year ago, it happens gradually. I wire the money, my systems trade. This happens for a week. Beware that i have to check on them at least once a day. But I check much more than that. I can't stop checking, because I am compulsive. Then, as I check on things, I see prices moving. Pretty soon I start looking at charts. By the third week, I spot an opportunity. By the fourth week, I try seizing an opportunity, to either end a trade sooner, or even start a brand new trade. Usually it works well, and I do help my systems. Then I get cocky, and pretty soon I make more trades, this time less reasonable. Within two weeks of my resumed discretionary trading, one of these trades goes wrong. Usually I don't take it well, and I double up on the losing trade, rather than closing it. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes I blow out my account because of it.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 8:43pm   #1012
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread What I was saying the other day was not just about my father not helping me out financially during my life. The biggest problem was emotional. He gave me all he could in terms of education, even more than I wanted. He then destroyed all the work he thought he did, by telling me relentlessly that I was worthless, regardless of how well I did. I was one of the top students in my class, but he kept on pushing me more and more, until I just gave up studying completely, and started skipping classes, two months worth of classes every year. Maybe he was sick - as I always say - or maybe he thought he would get me to do more by telling me that i was worthless in every field he could imagine of. Well, he definitely overdid it, and got me to feel chronically insecure, negative, depressed. So when I complain about him, I am mostly referring to the moral support I never had. He never even apologized to me once for how badly he treated me. I still resent him also because of this.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 10:23pm   #1013
 
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interesting stuff: macau

Yamato started this thread http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Macau
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasco_Joaquim_Rocha_Vieira
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfe...ignty_of_Macau

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Old Jul 11, 2010, 11:47am   #1014
 
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"Error exporting report (20027). Unable to open clipboard."

Yamato started this thread Spending a whole day solving a Tradestation 2000i bug. Still not solved yet. The problem is that it won't export the strategy report (on excel).

http://www.google.it/search?q=error+...iuHZKmOOfStIoK

I suppose that many people had the same problem, but few talk about it on the web - actually only one person talks about it, and another person replies he's solved it and how (didn't work for me):
http://www.purebytes.com/archives/om.../msg05024.html

Installed, uninstalled, done acronis, changed data, changed data names, changed .orw names, changed strategy, changed computer, installed updates, rebooted computers... I've tried everything I could think of in the past few hours and it still gives me that same error. The only thing left is to try and change today's date, artificially.

One thing that amazed me is that I didn't have this problem on the other computer, the two computers didn't exchange files, and now I have the same problem on the other computer.

Nope: even changing today's date won't solve the problem. The good thing is that now I can focus on just one computer since the other computer shows the same exact problem. I've had this problem before and solved it by reinstalling tradestation over itself, but this time it didn't work.

Since I only have to create another 10 systems and then I'll be done, I will probably just take snapshots of the performance reports, and then forget tradestation 2000i for the rest of my life. And either stop creating systems or use new programs, which are not 10 years old.

**** **** ****!

Just as I was editing this post, and adding above:
Quote:
I suppose that many people had the same problem, but few talk about it on the web - actually only one person talks about it, and another person replies he's solved it and how (didn't work for me):
http://www.purebytes.com/archives/om.../msg05024.html...
I double-checked the only method suggested by one person on the web, and guess what: it worked. So I actually solved the problem - after trying for hours - simply because, thanks to explaining the problem out loud here, I double-checked the solution suggested by the one person who helped the one person who's written about this problem. This is definitely the first time something like this happens.

So I opened up Internet Explorer, copied some text from this page and pasted it onto an excel sheet, and then tried using tradestation and exporting a report and it worked. Now I can finally go back to work. Thanks, Mats Bengtsson (a Swedish computer science professor):
Quote:
...If you have some other applications, try cutting and pasting between them using the clipboard...
How could I ever imagine something like this would work? I don't know jack **** about how computers work. I had tried it earlier, but I didn't copy across applications: just from notepad to notepad, saw it worked, and yet that it didn't solve my tradestation problem. Always double-check things. That's one quality of compulsive people.

-----

Later edit:

In the meanwhile the mother ****ing problem has happened again and the solution suggested by Bengtsson is not working any more. So maybe it never had worked and it's something else that worked but I don't know what.
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Last edited by Yamato; Jul 12, 2010 at 4:32am.
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Old Jul 11, 2010, 3:57pm   #1015
 
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re: my journal 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
You see, just as I wrote in my profile a year ago, it happens gradually. I wire the money, my systems trade. This happens for a week. Beware that i have to check on them at least once a day. But I check much more than that. I can't stop checking, because I am compulsive. Then, as I check on things, I see prices moving. Pretty soon I start looking at charts. By the third week, I spot an opportunity. By the fourth week, I try seizing an opportunity, to either end a trade sooner, or even start a brand new trade. Usually it works well, and I do help my systems. Then I get cocky, and pretty soon I make more trades, this time less reasonable.....
Travis,

I'm launching my Plan B: day trading. I'm not giving up on the system building, I just can't depend on it alone at this point since I haven't got anything I'm happy to trade yet.

I have a vague idea that your discretionary trading is bottom picking and you said at one point you were going to teach a friend of yours to trade. Obviously I've got a plan but it's not definite yet, and I'll be simulated trading for a while, so I figured I'd ask what you recommend, if you fancy sharing?
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Old Jul 11, 2010, 5:37pm   #1016
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Well, as I must have already explained, I cannot trade discretionary but I wanted my friend to learn so I could have him teach me or at least turn his ideas into systems. And in fact, even though he never turned profitable as a discretionary trader, he did give me enough ideas to build about 10 systems, such as the volatility breakout systems. Of course my plan was fair, in that I wanted to give him some money to trade, but I never got to that point. First because he never had 3 profitable months we agreed on, and second of all because I never had the spare 10k to give him.

So, recapitulating, neither he nor I are profitable discretionary traders, but I did build 10 profitable systems thanks to his ideas (volatility breakout systems and some other ideas).

So I cannot teach you discretionary trading, but I could give you some ideas from my back-testing experience.

As far as top and bottom picking you have to first of all wait for the right time and for the right amount of overstretchedness.

It would be advisable to follow all or at least 3 of these principles (but I could never follow them because I am too impatient):

1) wait until 22.00 CET
2) wait until the CL is oversold by about 300 ticks, or the EUR/GBP and other currencies by about 200 ticks.
3) go only LONG because that direction is the most likely direction (so only bottom-picking).
4) wait for support, in the form of pivots on the EUR, or 100s of ticks on everything else.

Make your overnight trade and hold it for 12 hours, or enter a takeprofit which is about one third of the day's range. Up to you: you will make money more often but will make less.

This method is profitable, for sure. The problem is that it happens very rarely, and it makes you so bored that you end up making other trades that blow out your account. At least that's been the case for me.

During the night, you're likely to have reversals. After a big fall, there tends to be rises. At support levels, there tends to be bounces. And prices tend to go up more than down.

So you can see why this system will work, besides being back-tested, which is actually how I found out some of the things I said above.

All my systems are like this - simple and not trading often and could be manually executed - but I am too impatient even to let the systems trade automated - it's a disaster. I am a very sick person.

Today I was frustrated about something and went to eat, and it reminded me that, during the week, that's exactly what I used to do: when I was frustrated about something and had a disturbing thought, I would go and place a trade. That's how ****ed up I am and that's why I could never make any money trading.
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Last edited by Yamato; Jul 11, 2010 at 5:50pm.
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Old Jul 12, 2010, 12:26am   #1017
 
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re: my journal 2

That's really interesting, and surprising. That's really not how I think about trading, how I imagine I would day trade. Day trading is a bad term - I mean short term discretionary.

You say 'oversold' so you mean using an oscillator and you mean 300 ticks on CL below where it first becomes oversold, I figure?

I like the idea of going long only. I could definitely do that - in fact I split my trading systems into long & short trials when doing backtesting runs to separate out the trading direction completely. With forex that I've been concentrating on recently, with IB at least you just have to switch the pair around and you see the market from the other direction, so maybe it makes meaningless to say long only. At least apart from CL.

For discretionary trading though I figure I would always try to trade intuitively rather than technically because technical stuff would always make me think I could be programming it and I think it would be counter-productive to try to beat a computer at its own game. You though have made a fair few comments about overriding your systems to improve them. You're definitely coming from a different angle to me there.

Interesting stuff.
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Old Jul 12, 2010, 4:30am   #1018
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Yeah, thank you.

Regarding your question: I don't mean using an oscillator: that is why I said 300 ticks and 200 ticks. Otherwise I would have said "use this oscillator and wait for this value...".

On forex, regarding the fact that it goes up and down equally you are right, but in fact the time cycles of forex are related to those of the stock indexes (they move in the same direction), so when I say 22.00 CET, that time is still more likely to be a long move rather than short - even for forex.

In the meanwhile that mother ****ing problem of tradestation (see two posts above) has happened again and the solution suggested on the web is not working any more. So maybe it never had worked and it's something else that worked but I don't know what.
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Old Jul 12, 2010, 10:34am   #1019
 
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re: my journal 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
Regarding your question: I don't mean using an oscillator: that is why I said 300 ticks and 200 ticks. Otherwise I would have said "use this oscillator and wait for this value...".
I assumed you were talking about an oscillator to tell you when it's moved into oversold territory.

You could have meant 200 or 300 ticks from the level when the oscillator hit oversold.

Otherwise, how do you define it? Do you look at the bar chart and decide from that alone?
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Old Jul 12, 2010, 1:04pm   #1020
 
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re: my journal 2

Yamato started this thread Yeah, I look at when the day is down 300 ticks on the CL and 200 ticks on the EUR, GBP and the rest of them currencies.

However, I am an unprofitable discretionary trader, so feel free to ignore my little theories.
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