Amplify Trading-my journey

This is a discussion on Amplify Trading-my journey within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by Pat494 Hopefully traderboi ( or another ) may return sometime and let us know how he is ...

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Old Jan 13, 2014, 9:52am   #321
Joined Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
Hopefully traderboi ( or another ) may return sometime and let us know how he is getting on.

Scared of being sued probably ?
i suspect I know the answer but yes hope he will return.
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 4:10pm   #322
Joined Jun 2012
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i suspect I know the answer but yes hope he will return.
Says at the end of the thread he is working at an Asian IB in London no? Thanks to a relative he had there apparently, which is the only possible way that could be true since prop training is CV poison for IBs, right or wrong.

I find it all very unlikely though, unless that relative is a Partner then you're going to be expected to have a postgrad and extremely strong Mathematics and English these days. Even more so at Nomura or BoJ than Western banks. Something this fellow lacked, without meaning offence.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:04pm   #323
Joined May 2008
I've just read through this entire thread today - was like a good book that I couldn't put down The whole thread itself (while centred around Amplify trading's course) was like a constant battle between the bulls and the bears as to whether one should part with hard earned cash and go on the course! As an impartial observer, I can say with some confidence that the bears won but having dabbled in short-term trading myself between 2008-2011, I could have predicted this.

With that all being said and done, Traderboi's passionate, determined and honest entries made compelling and persuasive reading and it was interesting to read about his evolution from wide-eyed (and to some extent propaganda na´ve) newbie to actual trader and realization of just how difficult (if not impossible) it is to make spectacular returns as a small retail investor even with the help of a prop firm. It was a process I remember going through myself though I never had any formal training. For what it's worth, I don't believe he was 'planted' by Amplify.

HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE THING I'VE LEARNED FROM MY ATTEMPTS AT SHORT-TERM TRADING (SPANNING 3 YEARS) IS THAT IT SIMPLY SHOULD 'NOT' BE ATTEMPTED BY SMALL RETAIL INVESTORS FROM HOME (even if they are being 'supported' by consultants at prop firms).

If such individuals want to be philanthropists then they would be better advised to give to more deserving charities than their brokers and institutional investors who have better access to tools, money and knowledge than they will ever have themselves. Or, blow the money (whilst at least having fun) at a weekend away in Vegas!

It is easy to see why people are sucked into the world of trading (i.e. dreams of sitting at home and using your computer to purge the market of its money and provide you with an ATM machine). I once bought a trading course from Vince Stanzione for ú1000 which is my biggest cringe so I know only too well. Companies like Amplify take advantage of many individuals' thirst for trading knowledge which the individuals believe will be inextricably linked to new found riches. The media often exacerbate this by picking out occasional whopping transient successes of a trader here and there but do those traders sustain their success with their own cash? (I suspect not).

Little do small short-term retail investors know......they will soon become the raw materials for the creatures of the lagoon! I have honestly never known of a small retail trader (without extensive insider training/knowledge and on-going access to these resources) who 'sustainably' made the kind of money we would all be attracted to short-term trading for in the first place (i.e. 250k annually or a lot more). If there is then I could do with a healthy dose of optimism in relation to the trading world. Even so called market wizards (from top investment banks) often can't make any money trading with their own cash and just instead make their dosh on selling products, arbitrage and so-called whale deals (giving nice bonuses end of year).

My advice to anyone out there (who is not currently an insider at an investment bank or large trading firm) is stay well away from becoming a short-term trader despite how attractive it might appear. Forewarned is forearmed.

Try 'boring' value investing instead with long-term investing horizons - books by Benjamin Graham and about his disciple Warren Buffet are a good place to start and offer a more pragmatic and logical approach to accumulating wealth IMO.

Last edited by mpi2008; Jan 17, 2014 at 8:15pm.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:30pm   #324
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Little do small short-term retail investors know......they will soon become the raw materials for the creatures of the lagoon! I have honestly never known of a small retail trader (without extensive insider training/knowledge and on-going access to these resources e.g. Anton Kreil) who 'sustainably' made the kind of money we would all be attracted to short-term trading for in the first place (i.e. 250k annually or a lot more).
nice plug you got in there for Anton.

FWIW I agree with you it is very hard for short term retail traders to succeed. It is very hard but not impossible.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:38pm   #325
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Eeeek........you're right cablemonster......that was an inadvertent plug I'm definitely not on the Kreil payroll. Plug now removed.

Last edited by mpi2008; Jan 17, 2014 at 8:16pm.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 7:48pm   #326
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I have to agree with CM here (I know, will wonders never cease?) - he makes an important point IMO.

Also, mpi2008, I think your arguments against short-term trading could equally be levelled at longer-term trading or value investing. I remember very well some friends telling me of their great "investment" in BP (pre-Macondo), and how Tesco shares were a one-way bet (just before the 2012 profits warning and 25% share-price drop... still they got their 3.7% dividend eh?). And I think we're all aware of just how sh*t the average fund manager is. That being said, I fully agree with you that most will fail at trading.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 8:07pm   #327
Joined May 2008
RE:

Also, mpi2008, I think your arguments against short-term trading could equally be levelled at longer-term trading or value investing. I remember very well some friends telling me of their great "investment" in BP (pre-Macondo), and how Tesco shares were a one-way bet (just before the 2012 profits warning and 25% share-price drop... still they got their 3.7% dividend eh?). And I think we're all aware of just how sh*t the average fund manager is. That being said, I fully agree with you that most will fail at trading.

By long-term investing, I meant holding 'good' stocks for years (possibly decades) and buying at a variety of prices (ideally large chunks during market crashes) over time. That way, it doesn't matter if Tesco issues a short-term profit warning or BP has another oil spill, those would simply represent great buying opportunities for me as a good company's share price will be 'highly likely' to appreciate (along with all the usual oscillations and occasional crash) over time. That said, if the fundamentals changed and electric cars started taking over the Earth, I'd sell all my shares in BP at once!

I agree that fund managers don't beat the market after costs the majority of the time and that is why I wouldn't invest with them.
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 8:26pm   #328
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RE:
By long-term investing, I meant holding 'good' stocks for years (possibly decades) and buying at a variety of prices (ideally large chunks during market crashes) over time. That way, it doesn't matter if Tesco issues a short-term profit warning or BP has another oil spill, those would simply represent great buying opportunities for me as a good company's share price will be 'highly likely' to appreciate (along with all the usual oscillations and occasional crash) over time. That said, if the fundamentals changed and electric cars started taking over the Earth, I'd sell all my shares in BP at once!
It's a nice idea, assuming you can find a diversified portfolio of 'good' stocks, buy them (cheaply) at the right time, manage & hold the portfolio, and sell at the appropriate time (all whilst beating inflation of course). Many is the fund manager/investor that tries - and fails - to achieve this. What if Tesco's profit warning isn't short-term? The stock is at the lower end of an 8 year range, and the current outlook isn't great. Take BP, it's share price today is lower than it was 14 years ago. Let's not even go there with companies like Marconi....
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Old Jan 17, 2014, 10:33pm   #329
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Re: It's a nice idea, assuming you can find a diversified portfolio of 'good' stocks, buy them (cheaply) at the right time, manage & hold the portfolio, and sell at the appropriate time (all whilst beating inflation of course). Many is the fund manager/investor that tries - and fails - to achieve this. What if Tesco's profit warning isn't short-term? The stock is at the lower end of an 8 year range, and the current outlook isn't great. Take BP, it's share price today is lower than it was 14 years ago. Let's not even go there with companies like Marconi...


Yes picking the good stocks at good prices (though cheap may become relative depending on the timeline) is definitely the tricky part and anyone who manages to read and successfully utilise the methods from 'Security Analysis' deserves to accumulate wealth as far as I can see. For the majority of us though, I imagine regular investments in passive index funds (or ETFs) +/- a small basket of diversified good stocks (ideally bought during market depressions or 'special situations') are the way to go. Housing and commodities are obviously a good hedge too.

Fund managers run into problems because they have to satisfy their shareholders by producing impressive gains over relatively short periods to justify their existence and also have such large quantities of money to invest that it can become a hindrance; for an insight on this, I'd recommend reading about the dilemmas of Peter Lynch when he managed his hedge fund in 'One up on Wall Street'.

We all know the stock market is going to confer a degree of risk no matter what we do and I haven't recently analysed the balance sheets of companies like Tesco or BP but historically the passage of time has often dealt elegantly with good companies' concerns of today unless the fundamentals dictate that it is no longer a good investment.

I aim to invest with the balance of probability firmly rooted on my side. That way, if I'm old and poor then at least I can say that I tried to trade smart which I can accept more gracefully than if I gradually blew-up my life savings on short-term trading strategies that went wrong for one reason or another.

Just realised these comments will probably be removed as we've gotten a little off the topic of the Amplify trading course. Oh well......
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Old Feb 10, 2014, 6:16pm   #330
Pid
Joined Feb 2013
Well i'm still here after doing the course and still trading as an independent through amplify. i'm just curious as to how many of the nay sayers here have actually done the course? And if so what month did you join? chances are we would've exchanged some ideas in the hotcomm room
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