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This is a discussion on my journal 3 within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by travis Yeah, good logical reasoning. But according to your logical reasoning, blind people should also be left ...

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Old Dec 7, 2013, 12:57pm   #3721
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
Yeah, good logical reasoning. But according to your logical reasoning, blind people should also be left to die, right? Without help from someone, and in case they're alone, without help from the government, they would most likely die. So what politicians like Mandela really mean is that, whatever the case, everyone who needs it should be.. not simply "allowed" but also "helped" to live. By the community.
People incorrectly use the term "right" because they think with their hearts and not their minds. Simply put, nobody has a right to another persons labour or property regardless of how sick or poor or needy they are.

In your example, a blind person does not have a "right" to sight. What if the only way they can be given sight involves taking a pair of good eyes from another person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
In other words, yes, the logical conclusion is that if you blind person have the right to live, then other members of the community have the duty to help you.

I am saying that nobody has a moral obligation or duty to help another person, nor should they be forced to. The only "rights" we have as humans are those we are born with, and everyone should have those rights protected.

1) The right to life
2) The right to Liberty
3) The right to pursue happiness. (Not the right to happiness, but the pursuit of)

None of these rights do or should infringe on the rights of others. In other words, if making you happy involves killing another person then you haven't got the right to that pursuit.

If someone wants to live in poverty then they have a right to that choice if it makes them happy. Who is anyone to say that it is wrong?

As far as having a duty to help the blind person, who would enforce that duty? If it involves force then you are taking away the rights of another person.
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 1:19pm   #3722
 
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Yamato started this thread Yes, I see your points. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 1:55pm   #3723
 
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I was watching another newsreel, a very interesting one, and look at what I found, while looking for the events depicted in the video:
http://m.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060022549
Quote:
I. Hitler and Mussolini confer at Brenner Pass. Hitler's train pulls into station for fifth meeting with Duce. Hitler and von Ribbentrop are greeted by Mussolini, Ciano and German Ambassador von Mackensen before passing along platform past guard of honour and entering train for talks lasting two and a half hours. Leaders say farewell before train pulls out.

II. Bridge at Linz nears completion. New construction work in Austria has not been interrupted by war as Nibelungen Bridge over Danube nears completion. Steel plated are riveted and a model of the large bridge shown.

III. Women take over men's jobs in factories. To allow production to continue uninterrupted, women operate overhead cranes and work at drills and lathes, replacing called-up men.

IV. U-boat construction and launchings. As ring reportedly closes ever tighter around Britain, prefabricated sections of U-boats constructed in different factories are welded together in shipyard. Completed Type VII craft are launched, one sideways down the slipway and another stern first. (End of Reel 1)

V. Homecoming of U-29. Kapitänleutnant Schuhart stands on conning tower of U-29 returning to Wilhelmshaven flying pennon after successful voyage. Commander who earlier sank HMS Courageous is credited with 660,566 tons sunk on two voyages. Sailors wear Salzwedel Flotilla capbands. Barrage balloons fly over the port and other naval units are just visible as U-29 comes alongside quay. Flotilla commander (?) is first to welcome Schuhart, before latter is greeted on shore by Grossadmiral Raeder and Commander of U-Boats Konteradmiral Doenitz beside him. Raeder conveys Führer's thanks to Schuhart and his crew.

VI. Construction of Messerschmitt Bf 109E fighters. Plane described as the fastest fighter in the world is assembled in factory. Metal fuselage is pressed, seats fixed, wings shaped and engines assembled and fitted. Completed Bf 109Es are rolled out of hangar.

VII. Return of Adlergeschwader bombers from raid on Scapa Flow. Heinkel He 111Hs of Adlergeschwader (Kampfgeschwader 30) return in dark after surprise attack on British Home Fleet at Scapa Flow. Crews cross airfield illuminated at night and then give (live) report on raid to their Kommodore, standing in front of wall map marked with Adlergeschwader eagle emblem and umbrella in shield emblem. After several pilots have described their direct hits and near misses, Kommodore summarises successes as four definite hits on four separate ships and several near misses, and praises his crews' courage and determination against the enemy. He concludes: "You know the Führer's saying that the end of this war will bring the most glorious victory in German history. I want our Geschwader, the Adlergeschwader, to have a substantial part in that." Over map of Scapa Flow pilot says the naval anchorage will be thinking of the Luftwaffe and item concludes with montage of Ju 87s and He 111s to words of the Stuka Song.
That's what I found, exactly the events in the video (never mind the first 2 minutes, not related to the newsreel). Probably i'll look it up from now on.

What were the germans doing in March 1940?

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...2time.htm#1940
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...40)#March_1940

They had already invaded Poland and "annexed" austria and all those other eastern european countries, but they still hadn't gone after anyone in western europe, although they were at war.



Yeah, as you can see, on the Western European side, everything really started in April 1940, with Norway. So, first he went down, in 1938, and got Austria. Then, in 1939, he went east. Then in 1940, he first went north and then west.

...

The more I see of these meetings (cfr. video above) between hitler and mussolini, the more I realize that hitler created nazism after seeing Italian fascism and that nazism is the Italian version of Fascism. Other than everything about nazism, you can see this in the respect hitler shows in his relationship with mussolini, and in the way the (German) newsreels of the time talk about these meetings. Obviously they reflect Hitler's desires, and if they show respect, obviously he feels respect.

As I was doing a search, trying to understand what they spoke to each other (for example, in the video below), and the answer is German, I came across the best document about nazism and hitler from his time:
Facts and Lies about Hitler

It's an electoral pamphlet, very very interesting. Most precious document I've seen so far. One quick quote from it:
Quote:
It might also be noted the Italian bourgeoisie once had equally “serious reservations” about the “dilettante” Mussolini. Mussolini had this to say during the 1930 Reichstag election: “Hitler is a great leader, a great organizer.”’
Here is the video I mentioned, of one of Hitler-Mussolini meetings:



At 1:40 you can clearly see that they're speaking to each other and without an interpreter. So, the answer is that they're speaking German, because Mussolini at the beginning of the century spent over 2 years in Switzerland.
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 7:18pm   #3724
 
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Yamato started this thread I am going to watch a movie in English, but it's still on the same subject of nazi germany:
http://vodly.to/watch-680-The-Reader
http://daclips.in/azccsctjj8jv

...

After a few minutes, I am already disgusted with it. The actors speak perfect english but have to pretend they have slight german accent so the stupid audience understands that we are in germany. That sucks. Also the movie is overall crappy, for the same reason that it is meant for a stupid audience. So I think I will resist watching it for another 10 minutes at the most.

...

Yeah, it is total crap.

I'll watch anther "tonwoche" instead, which means "sound-week", right because when it was created in 1930, the big deal was that it had sound, so they named it accordingly.

...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...Denmark_(1940)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign

Same period (and unfortunately same unpleasant trumpet soundtrack), but British perspective:





You know, the more I watch these newsreels, the more (also, having been a risk player -- strategy board game -- all my life)... the more i wonder: why didn't hitler invade England right away, like in June 1940. Why the hell did he attack the Soviet Union instead?

You know what I am saying? When you play risk, you learn that you only get your chance to attack once. Then people realize how strong you got, and they all gang up against you, and you're dead. So you better make sure you win when you go for it. Hitler instead seemed like a risk player who wants his moment of glory, attacks too early, or too many, and wastes all his armies, just because he wanted glory too early in the game.

So, ok to go for all the smaller countries first, but then you can't go after the Soviet Union. You just cannot do that. That is way too huge, and Napoleon teaches you a thing or two about it. If he had left Soviet Union alone, he would have had enough to conquer England, and then the US would not have done anything, once it was too late. How could Hitler leave such a time bomb so close to him, and focus on the Soviet Union, when he could so easily invade it?

Or, if he didn't think he could invade it, why did he begin to bomb altogether? Why did he have to sink ships and make everyone so angry? He could have said "ok, we've got all of continental europe, now we're ok and we stop here. But did he even have a plan after that? For his new "colonies"?

Yahoo Answers: Answers and Comments for Why didn't Hitler invade England?
Some comments from 3 different users, which I found interesting and reasonable:
Quote:
When Hitler attacked Poland he never expected that the governments of France and Great Britain would honour their treaty with Poland and declare war on him because of their previous appeasement over his activities in Czechoslovakia.
He was an admirer of the British Empire and many influential people in British society admired him e.g. the Duke of Windsor.
His ambition was to build a similar empire for Germany on the British lines but taking the Slavic lands to the east.
When he had to eventually fight the French and British he was caught off balance by the quick success of his army and had no plans or equipment in place to invade Great Britain.
Quote:
no your all wrong...sure Hilter lauched missles and did bombing raids...these were merely scare tattics..

Hitler actually respected England..he tried twice to make a secret peace treaty with them..
Basically Hilter wanted an empire..he admried the british empire so much that he wished to copy it..

Hilter never ever wanted to fight a war on two fronts...this is why he never really invaded england..
Quote:
Everyone's answers seem to be running along the same lines, and most are true, but they are all missing a key point. Hitler believed in cosmology and reading the stars to see the future, etc. He had an aid that was an astronomer that would read the stars for him, and the aid advised him to not invade England because it was in the stars that he would lose.
I mean, just look at the map, especially with the entry of Italy in the war, in June 1940 and tell me if the next thing to do was to attack the huge Soviet Union or England.



I am very very disappointed, because I cannot figure out why he went after the Soviet Union and not England instead. With all the armies he wasted in the Soviet Union, he could have so easily invaded England.

The theory that he "respected" England and didn't want to invade it but to imitate would be ok with me, if it weren't for the fact that you don't bomb a country you respect. He could have easily avoided it all. Either conquer the opponent, or leave him alone. This is just like in the Risk strategy game.

...

Ok, here's some answers:



They make reference to Ciano's diaries, where Galeazzo Ciano writes that Hitler didn't want to destroy the British Empire because he felt it was useful to the world (minute 5:50).

Ok, but was a huge mistake by Hitler right then: we can say he simply did not have a backup plan for England not making peace. His strategy was:

1) we won't destroy UK but we will bomb it into submission and force it to make peace...

While we are waiting for this to work:

1) the British Empire and the US mobilize to help England
2) as if it weren't enough, we decide to also attach the Soviet Union

Awfully bad strategy. I'd say first we defeat England and conquer all of europe, and place puppet governments in every country. We stay like this for 10 years, and then if we're really strong, and have support from this empire, we move on to attack the USSR.

...

Dude, do not start a war if you are not willing to go all the way, because your opponents will definitely go all the way, also because they don't know what your plan is.

Hitler did not have a complete plan from the start, and what he decided along the way... well, it totally totally sucked.
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 10:50pm   #3725
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dunkirk

Did you notice the music they play at the end, when you see the German planes flying? It's called:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ride_of_the_Valkyries
Quote:
The Ride of the Valkyries (German: Walkürenritt or Ritt der Walküren) is the popular term for the beginning of Act III of Die Walküre, the second of the four operas by Richard Wagner that constitute Der Ring des Nibelungen. The main theme of the Ride, the leitmotif labelled Walkürenritt, was first written down by the composer on 23 July 1851.
I think that's exactly where Coppola got his idea for this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now
Quote:
The helicopter attack scene with the Ride of the Valkyries soundtrack was chosen as the most memorable film scene ever by Empire magazine (although the same track was used earlier in 1915 to similar effect in the score written to accompany the silent film The Birth of a Nation).


Nope, I don't think he took it from this crap:



He either came up with it all alone, or he took it from the german newsreels.

At any rate, here's a British newsreel from the same period:



They lie, too, but they come off as sincere, balanced, and impartial, and are proud of treating their enemies nicely. They keep mentioning this fact.

Fascinating bit about Italy's declaration of war. More can be found (but without sound) here:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/it...-war-june-1940

Great source of these videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HumanHis...?query=british

...

Here's the French version of the events (can't find the youtube equivalent and can't embed):
http://www.ecpad.fr/journal-de-guerr...du-6-juin-1940
According to the French, they're winning as well, they show the German prisoners... everything is going well. It was the last (weekly) "Journal de guerre" before the Germans completely conquered France.

...

Here's the American perspective on it:



The Americans are showing German newsreel and explaning it (maybe even everything they are showing is from the Ton-Woche newsreel), without any propaganda.

Here's their view, but only a few months later:



Another good one, from May 1940: I can't embed it though.
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 12:34am   #3726
 
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Invasion of Luxembourg. I used to work there. Excellent scenes with crowds cheering, giving them bread, etcetera. First few minutes.

I started out by thinking these newsreels were the equivalent of today's news, but now I realize they are much much better. It is definitely propaganda, like the news on tv is, too, but it is also a pretty good documentary and an excellent editing, and, whereas the news is totally boring, this is engrossing. But partly because it made history. And, also, because one thing is to summarize a week of war in 20 minutes, like they had to do, and another thing is to summarize a day of peace in 20 minutes.

...

Pretty amazing to read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Luxembourg
Quote:
Grand Duchess Charlotte and the government of Premier Pierre Dupong fled to France, Portugal and the United Kingdom, before finally settling in Canada for the duration of the war.
If you're a citizen of Luxembourg, or one of these countries invaded by the nazis, all this fleeing should make you ask yourself some questions.

At the very least we can say that a "nazi collaborator" like Petain is as good as these royals fleeing to France, Portugal, London, and then Canada. How hard is it to not collaborate if you flee 10 thousand kilometers away?

...

At any rate, here's the American and then the British point of view on the same period:
https://archive.org/details/1940-05-13_Washington_DC
(can't embed it)



They got their asses kicked in Dunkirk but they pretend it's no big deal. The music and the tone is pretty amazing, if you consider that Germany has just conquered half of Europe in a few weeks. Unless they knew something that we don't know, they should have been pretty scared of being invaded as well.

What's pretty interesting is that if you play both videos at the same time you can find some more comparison terms, such as the music and other interesting things. For example, they both use a lot of trumpets but one is happy and one is military, and the Germans never interview anyone.

The Germans sound pretty angry still, despite all the victories, whereas the British sound pretty cheerful despite all the defeats.

...

Actually let me double check the German newsreel mood two weeks later, because Dunkirk doesn't match with "capitulation of France" as the British newsreel says.

...

I could not find it, but I found this interesting one, with a great part on Italy, the first few minutes:



It makes me a bit sad to hear them talk as if they were thinking they got themselves a great ally, powerful, with colonies and a lot of resources, and instead they got screwed, because we totally sucked.

The second part is excellent in that it shows at length what the Germans were feeling for their troops as no other documents we ever got to see on tv. This is exactly what I wanted to understand.

Oh, and I managed to find the Ciano Diaries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galeazzo_Ciano
Quote:
Ciano is remembered for his famous Diaries 1937–1943, a daily record of his meetings with Mussolini, Hitler, von Ribbentrop, foreign ambassadors and other political figures that proved embarrassing to the Nazi leadership and the Fascist diehards. Edda tried to barter his papers in return for his life with the help of factions in the German high command; Gestapo agents helped her confidant Emilio Pucci rescue some of them from Rome. Pucci was then a lieutenant in the Italian Air Force, but would find fame after the war as a fashion designer. When Hitler vetoed the plan, Edda hid the bulk of the papers at a clinic in Ramiola, near Medesano and on 9 January 1944, Pucci helped her escape to Switzerland with the 5 diaries covering the war years.[6] The diary was first published in 1946 in English in New York in an incomplete version. The complete English version was published in 2002.
Here's a quote from them, for June 10th:

snap1.jpg
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 5:38pm   #3727
 
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I wonder if Franco ever got in any trouble for being "neutral" and yet on the same side as the other two dictators. I don't think he did. He's the only dictator who got away with being a dictator in recent history, that I can remember.

During the war, receives the roman salute. No problem.

After the other two dictators were defeated:



Allied with those who defeated them, the Americans.

And he abolished the salute in 1945, what a coincidence (you know, that is exactly what I was expecting, when I looked it up):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute#Elsewhere
Quote:
In Spain, on April 27, 1937, Francisco Franco formally approved the salute in a decree which made it the official salutation to be used by all except the military who would continue to use the traditional military salutes.[58] This was repealed in September 1945.
You know, in Italy and across the world, we always say that Italians are renowned for being cowards (we say it ourselves that "Italians are cowards"), but after reading this thing about Franco, and this other thing I posted in another previous post...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Luxembourg
Quote:
Grand Duchess Charlotte and the government of Premier Pierre Dupong fled to France, Portugal and the United Kingdom, before finally settling in Canada for the duration of the war.
... cowards do not exist. There's just people who are willing to die for their country (definitely more frequent in Japan and Germany than in other countries) and others who are not. Then there's those who can do it intelligently and with style and get away with it, like the Luxembourg royals and Franco. And there are those who are not refined enough to do it right and do not get away with it, like Mussolini and the Italians, who entered the war against France when Germany had practically already defeated it, and who exited the alliance with Germany, when it didn't look so good anymore (but Mussolini wasn't responsible for this, just the king, look it up here).

I guess, the Italian fascists were a bit of a bluff, because they wanted to act like warriors, but didn't have the balls for it, like Germany and even more Japan. But if you're a bluff and don't want to take risks, then you're better off on the sidelines like Spain or the Luxembourg royals.



http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisi%C3%B3n_Azul





interesting 1956 francoist movie:



More activity by Francoist Spain in world war 2:





...

After over one hour of searching all over the web, I give up instead on my quest to find Spanish newsreel previous to 1943, when NO-DO started:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/NO-DO

There was another type of newsreels before it, but I could find no such videos on the web.
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 11:55pm   #3728
 
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Yamato started this thread You know, I've been thinking about this.

The pivot point of everything is Dunkirk.

There Hitler showed his... weakness in reasoning. He showed that he didn't have the right strategy or that there is something that I don't know about what he was thinking. He was a genius otherwise, but here he's showing signs of madness or maybe he was an agent of the bankers themselves... hard to figure out. Certainly, not going all the way against England and attacking Russia instead did not make ANY sense, if you just look at this map over and over again:



As I wrote in previous posts, you either go after England or you don't. You don't just attack it a little bit, kill a few thousand people, and then allow everyone from the colonies (Australians, Canadians and especially Americans and Indians, who sent millions of men) to come to the rescue.

By the time he was at Dunkirk, he had almost all of Europe and lost a few thousand men: he went after USSR, which was enormous, and lost 8 million people.

He should have simply used all those 8 million people to conquer England, which was clearly within his capabilities, especially given that London is so close to the coast of continental Europe.

So, whereas for trading reading books is a waste of time, I am thinking that reading a few essays for this question, would be a good idea. Especially in German, so I get their perspective and in the meanwhile I study German.

I'll start by investigating the historians at this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...irk#Halt_order

Footnotes 5 to 13.

Damn. Unbelievable, all references to historians with English names. I want to read original German essays/books, not translated from English into German.

Let's see elsewhere...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlach...er_Haltebefehl

Footnotes 6 to 9.

Unbelievable, even the German entry has all English historians. When they say history is written by the victors... or vae victis.

...

bingo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ary_historians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...litary_writers

--- Damn!

This is in English but it totally answers my question:
http://bevinalexander.com/books/hitler-world-war-ii.htm
Quote:
Why didn't the Nazis concentrate their enormous military power on the only three beaches upon which the Allies could launch their attack into Europe?

Why did the terrifying German panzers, on the brink of driving the British army into the sea in May 1940, halt their advance and allow the British to regroup and evacuate at Dunkirk?

Ultimately, Alexander probes deeply into the crucial intersection between Hitler's psyche and military strategy and how his paranoia fatally overwhelmed his acute political shrewdness to answer the most terrifying question: Just how close were the Nazis to victory?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevin_Alexander
Quote:
Bevin Alexander is a military historian and author.[1] He served as an officer during the Korean War as part of the 5th Historical Detachment. His book Korea: The First War We Lost was largely influenced by his experiences during the war. Bevin has served as a consultant and adviser to several groups due to his military expertise, including work for the Rand Corporation, work as a consultant for military simulations instituted by the United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, and as director of information at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Virginia. As of 2007, he is an adjunct professor at Longwood University, in Farmville, Virginia.
Yep, now I'm gonna have to read this book.

No, great. I found this link:
Book Discussion on How Hitler Could Have Won World War II

It's going to be a pleasure. The video lasts 1 hour, I'll watch it tomorrow.
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