Rollercoaster heading down more than up

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thedood

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Hey everyone,
So after reading a couple of books on SB and spending some time trading 'play money' I took the leap into my own investors account. I was averaging £100 a day with the play money so I walked into it all confident and found out the hard way that when real money is involved nerves and fear can hinder good decision making.
I've made some wins but I've made some big losses. My £500 account is nearly hitting the £100 mark. I can't bring myself to put more of my cash in the fund so I'm turning back to the 'play money' account for more practise and confidence re-buiding. I made some dumb mistakes and didn't plan my trades properly, chased my losses, let my losses run too long, took my profits too fast - all the classics. Right now I feel more like a gambler than a trader.

Any advice, tips, words of wisdom...? None of my friends trade so I lack people who understand what I'm going through.

Not giving up yet though!
Cheers
J
 
It's a tough time to be trading. What are you trading and how much of your account are you risking in a trade?
 
Most of my win's with the play money were on the FTSE100 or the DAX. I've had no luck on indices with my real money account so I've been looking at oil and gold. I'm trading on tradindex...and only realising now that their spreads ain't so tight.
 
its been so volatile I've allowed bad losses to run - almost paralyzed a my peril. Risking a way higher % than I'd like.
 
Firstly, tradindex are terrible from what i've heard. Get IG (most like IG) or Capital Spreads etc. - i'm sure you can find out a good company that people approve of on here. It is a tough market to be trading, but it can also be highly rewarding if you get it right.

Stick to one market and get consistent - no point chopping and changing the markets you trade whilst you're trying to become profitable. Cut your losses and max the winners (so clichéd - but set out a stop and keep to it; you're not experienced enough to start moving stops) and keep the % fixed. Maybe 2%, 3% if you like - but don't mess about with it on each trade. If you do IG they let you bet down to the penny how much you want to trade so this will help you with the %.
 
cheers, unfortunately tradindex only allow stoplosses to be placed 30 points from the current price. If I trade oil or gold do you know where the best information can be sourced...I currently look at bloomberg and yahoo finance but often gold is barely mentioned..
 
thedood said:
Hey everyone,
So after reading a couple of books on SB and spending some time trading 'play money' I took the leap into my own investors account. I was averaging £100 a day with the play money so I walked into it all confident and found out the hard way that when real money is involved nerves and fear can hinder good decision making.
I've made some wins but I've made some big losses. My £500 account is nearly hitting the £100 mark. I can't bring myself to put more of my cash in the fund so I'm turning back to the 'play money' account for more practise and confidence re-buiding. I made some dumb mistakes and didn't plan my trades properly, chased my losses, let my losses run too long, took my profits too fast - all the classics. Right now I feel more like a gambler than a trader.

Any advice, tips, words of wisdom...? None of my friends trade so I lack people who understand what I'm going through.

Not giving up yet though!
Cheers
J
Click to expand...

don't put more money in! I was at £14 this morning & could have made it over the ton on ftse 100 only, little more experience etc. Did some silly bets this evening on wall st & back to £26 so I've got to make that gain again tomorrow. That's the job [i.e the labor].
Recon all you have to do is multiply when you have the thing going in the right direction & not blow gains like I did this evening.
Small is beautiful. Ants are as fascinating as bigger animals, they're just not so big.Phew! Perspective.

Get an edge they say. I got a nice one recently. Didn't trade for a while.
;) I read a bit more of my book & took stock of the news [mac & mae etc], went to work where I can't trade & weekend anyway!

If you're not doing the job properly, ie Money Management, R/R Ratio, etc you probably are gambling. Not a way to win!
Malcolm Pryor's book's the one I've got. He plays bridge....well.
 
Lol...:LOL:

Take your time bud, you wouldn't expect to pick up a spanner and fix someones pipes or a trowl and build a house, so why buy contracts when you haven't a clue.

Slow down, do some research then one day you can trade successfully. Should only take you a few weeks to earn bucket loads, what do you reckon???

Or, you can trade now and throw your money at all the ones that have done their work and will reap the rewards that you have already sewn to get your money in the first place. The bookies win if your spreadbetting, or, the traders/brokers win if your direct access.

Keep trading to make the wise more money...or if you prefer.....do some research, get the knowledge and become one of the wise.

Lots of, or's but only one of two choices

Your decision.:smart:
 
Right.

First of all ignore people who think you should only risk two or three per cent per trade. That isn't possible with your account size. Here's my suggested plan to get back to 500:

With a hundred quid you get to make five trades if you are risking twenty pounds a trade. So I'd recommend forex. Gold or oil and you'll lose the whole account when someone sneezes. Trade off support and resistance on a not very volatile pair. Once you get to 250 double your size to two quid a pip but halve it again if you regress to two hundred. There is a reasonably high chance of failure just through bad luck but this is very likely to work if you do it right.

Also suggest you ignore any advice with the appearance of a regurgitated soundbite from a silly book.
 
Thanks mate, that exactly what I needed to hear (y)


arabianights said:
Right.

First of all ignore people who think you should only risk two or three per cent per trade. That isn't possible with your account size. Here's my suggested plan to get back to 500:

With a hundred quid you get to make five trades if you are risking twenty pounds a trade. So I'd recommend forex. Gold or oil and you'll lose the whole account when someone sneezes. Trade off support and resistance on a not very volatile pair. Once you get to 250 double your size to two quid a pip but halve it again if you regress to two hundred. There is a reasonably high chance of failure just through bad luck but this is very likely to work if you do it right.

Also suggest you ignore any advice with the appearance of a regurgitated soundbite from a silly book.
Click to expand...
 
I did the same with my account at CMC. Without any clue about trading i managed to downsize my £500 account to £88.

See it as a cheap lesson, well at least much cheaper than for many others who lost many, many more.

I am putting together my strategy too. Support and resistance, reversals, breakouts with one or two indicators. Then papertrade it and refinance the account with some minimal amount then execute strategy. I don't take more than £1/point positions. It is working so far in paper and with a £200 account you still can take at least 6-7 continious losses if you put your stop level below 10 point. at the moment my longest losing row is 4 trades and the account is on +175 at the moment with around 38-40% winning rate. Money management has to be tight and rarely take a trade with less than 3:1 win ratio. It is working so far, but i need to setup some exact rules for my positiontaking as it is too random at the moment.

Will see in real in a couple of months.
 
I've not looked at my account for a month. I'm gonna start playing my virtual account soon to get my strategy underway and rebuild my confidence. I've decided to learn as much as I can about forex and then trade only that...
what have you decided to trade?


HW07 said:
I did the same with my account at CMC. Without any clue about trading i managed to downsize my £500 account to £88.

See it as a cheap lesson, well at least much cheaper than for many others who lost many, many more.

I am putting together my strategy too. Support and resistance, reversals, breakouts with one or two indicators. Then papertrade it and refinance the account with some minimal amount then execute strategy. I don't take more than £1/point positions. It is working so far in paper and with a £200 account you still can take at least 6-7 continious losses if you put your stop level below 10 point. at the moment my longest losing row is 4 trades and the account is on +175 at the moment with around 38-40% winning rate. Money management has to be tight and rarely take a trade with less than 3:1 win ratio. It is working so far, but i need to setup some exact rules for my positiontaking as it is too random at the moment.

Will see in real in a couple of months.
Click to expand...
 
mainly indexes like FTSE and DOW, sometimes DAX.

I would like to move forward FTSE Stocks too in the future, but because the spread much wider on individual stocks, i will be focusing on Indexes.
 
arabianights said:
Right.

First of all ignore people who think you should only risk two or three per cent per trade. That isn't possible with your account size. Here's my suggested plan to get back to 500:

With a hundred quid you get to make five trades if you are risking twenty pounds a trade. So I'd recommend forex. Gold or oil and you'll lose the whole account when someone sneezes. Trade off support and resistance on a not very volatile pair. Once you get to 250 double your size to two quid a pip but halve it again if you regress to two hundred. There is a reasonably high chance of failure just through bad luck but this is very likely to work if you do it right.

Also suggest you ignore any advice with the appearance of a regurgitated soundbite from a silly book.
Click to expand...

The only problem with this strategy, that from £100 in an SB account one can be very happy to open one position £1/point or pips as the margin requirement min around £50, so you can only open a £2/point trade on FTSE100. The margin more like £100 or £150 for currencies. I used CMC data for this.
 
HW07 said:
The only problem with this strategy, that from £100 in an SB account one can be very happy to open one position £1/point or pips as the margin requirement min around £50, so you can only open a £2/point trade on FTSE100. The margin more like £100 or £150 for currencies. I used CMC data for this.
Click to expand...

You may find that £1 per point on a £100 account is clearly not enough.

Heres the reasons:

If you risk 5% this gives you (max) 5 points move against you, this excludes the spread of course and assumes you are paying none whatsoever. Now if you lose the first four trades your balance becomes £80 (20% of account gone). If you still risk the initial 5% then your stops become 4 points away or continue to use the 5 points stop rule but your risk will become 6.25% and so on.

Actual calculations are:

5% constant:
£100 = 5pt stop. Lose
£95 = 4.75pt stop. Higher chance of being stopped out on noise.
£90 = 4.5pt stop. Even higher chance of being stopped out.
£85 = 4.25
£80 = 4pt stop, excluding spreads and now in scalping territory (if not already)

5pt rule constant:
£100 = -5pt = £95 or 5%
£95 = -5pt = £90 or 5.263%
£90 = -5pt = £85 or 5.5%
£85 = -5pt = £80 or 5.882%
£80 = -5pt = £75 or 6.25%


Let it be known that 5% risk per trade is commonly known as high risk to blowing up. It's known as this for the simple reason that people that use this high ratio stack the odds against themselves and have an extreme blow out rate.

Lose on one trade and you stack the odds more against you until it becomes an impossible chase for one you stand not to win.
 
Lee Shepherd said:
You may find that £1 per point on a £100 account is clearly not enough.

Heres the reasons:

If you risk 5% this gives you (max) 5 points move against you, this excludes the spread of course and assumes you are paying none whatsoever. Now if you lose the first four trades your balance becomes £80 (20% of account gone). If you still risk the initial 5% then your stops become 4 points away or continue to use the 5 points stop rule but your risk will become 6.25% and so on.

Actual calculations are:

5% constant:
£100 = 5pt stop. Lose
£95 = 4.75pt stop. Higher chance of being stopped out on noise.
£90 = 4.5pt stop. Even higher chance of being stopped out.
£85 = 4.25
£80 = 4pt stop, excluding spreads and now in scalping territory (if not already)

5pt rule constant:
£100 = -5pt = £95 or 5%
£95 = -5pt = £90 or 5.263%
£90 = -5pt = £85 or 5.5%
£85 = -5pt = £80 or 5.882%
£80 = -5pt = £75 or 6.25%


Let it be known that 5% risk per trade is commonly known as high risk to blowing up. It's known as this for the simple reason that people that use this high ratio stack the odds against themselves and have an extreme blow out rate.

Lose on one trade and you stack the odds more against you until it becomes an impossible chase for one you stand not to win.
Click to expand...

Agree. And to be back to my CMC account, the minimum amount you have to have in your account to be able to open any position is £100. From this even after one losing trade you have to put more money into the account if you want to trade.

I
 
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