Spread betting..is it gambling or not?

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

For most people it is just gambling.

For the serious trader/spreadbetter, it is still a game of chance that you play if you have an edge. If you have a system that has a 60% chance of success and your reward/risk is (eg) 2/1, with good money management, you will increase your equity over time.

Just don't go in with dollar signs in your eyes. Demo trade for a few months. No need to risk money these days.

It's in the why not the how:
Gambling is primarily for the thrill.
Trading is primarily to make money.

The different why's then result in different behaviours etc. Traders won't participate if they can't develop a statistically valid edge so roulette with a straight wheel is out. Traders are more likely to plan and execute in a business like manner (although that can be part of the game for some degenerate gamblers).

So if one can build and test a valid trading plan based on spread betting then it can be trading (or professional gambling). IMO.

cpfd said:

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

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Remember ,even if the wife is technically wrong, she is right! Men are from mars ,women from venus, but theres plenty of beer to drink so best not waste supping time in trying to enlighten the fairer sex, just say yes dear every third sentence or something.

What men really think is "you have absolutely no ****ing clue sweet cheeks, but I note i have clean socks to wear, so I keep my big mout shut.."

women think similar, all good fun..... ying n yang...

It would be more appropriate to ask if trading was just gambling rather than spread betting. Spread betting is merely one way, out of many, to enter the markets. Its the word "betting" that is the issue for many people.

(I do prefer Crap Buddists' answer though.......)

Now what is interesting is how to get the nagging wife of your back long enough yet still maintain a tolerance of ignorance, and we do need to raise an eyebrow as we chose them as mates. hmmm..

You know the wifes gonna be eyeing up your trading losses as potential star prizes missed out on from the conveyor belt on the generation game

a new washing machine, a small family car, a bbq set, a holiday in spain....matching luggage set, Clour tv and hi fi. a new three piece suite.... etc tect... and you expect to get laid that night ? lol........ If only the wife could treat the two imposters the same, whats more she'd be a man my son... but we dont want that, so, god bless em...

make no mistake, you will be taking on your wifes fears with money, you need to plan to deal with that. The first clue is her gambling/money fear.

Its quite interesting you not only have to control your way with it all but also assist others with their thinking.

Is going to university a gamble?

cpfd said:

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

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Treat it like the General said when asked about how much the public should be told of the war's progress:

"While the war's on (trading) tell'em nothing.
When it's over, tell'em who won."

Like the General, if you get it right you'll be ok. Otherwise.............

PS. Better make sure your system works before you place any dosh.

shadowninja said:

Is going to university a gamble?

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definately, if the individual doesn't want to go to uni but does so due to peer pressure etc, then its ****ing tragic,but i think often parents will want to live out how they wished for themselves through their childrens lives ,hence all the typical pressures instead of supporting unique choice of the new generation.....

what do people want to do with their lives ? who are they ? do that, do that..... give that 110% ....... rock on...

Indeedy. But I was thinking more of the chances of getting (1) a decent job (2) an increased salary. Today, nothing is guaranteed.

Crap Buddist said:

definately, if the individual doesn't want to go to uni but does so due to peer pressure etc, then its ****ing tragic,but i think often parents will want to live out how they wished for themselves through their childrens lives ,hence all the typical pressures instead of supporting unique choice of the new generation.....

what do people want to do with their lives ? who are they ? do that, do that..... give that 110% ....... rock on...

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Even sadder for the for the bright individual who wanted to go but who was prevented / deterred by parents too stupid to appreciate the benfits. This has happened to people I know; I wonder if it happens now for financial reasons?

0007 said:

Even sadder for the for the bright individual who wanted to go but who was prevented / deterred by parents too stupid to appreciate the benfits. This has happened to people I know; I wonder if it happens now for financial reasons?

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Yes and why are they not supported in choosing uni, after all they are adults. Parents who bring kids up to be independent and free thinking ,all when and good & then the kids say ,cheers I disagree I'm doing this mama n papa... then the parents put the skids on. !

makes no sense . Probably comes down to money,(feeling of lack of,so they aint happy?) many people like to say ohh,lifes not about money ,people count, but when it comes to walking the walk.... lol those types often go find a new set of friends .

Daughter just came back from Nepal this tuesday, she had a culture shocker out there ! Dont think she'll be moaning about split ends and hair conditioner for at least a couple of weeks .

MP --- dont we just ever "go on ?"

I was raised in one of the richest towns, in one of the richest counties in the US, where the people lived in the "family manor" that was handed down from century to century and the income came from being either in "the law" or in "banking", and while they probably enjoyed an excellent income, their "steady" money came from "clipping" coupons on maturing bonds, left to them by their great, great, great, great granfathers, and forever up the chain of lineage ! (btw, I was NOT one of them unfortunately, just a cute guy who made his way through the daughters of these richer folk)

OK, where this is going is those wonderful old men would "dabble" in the market, which at that time cost $200 pre-inflationary dollars per trade side ---- to them, it was just some "gambling", but it was RICH MAN GAMBLING, so it was just FINE !

effectively, speculating or even "investing" is by definition "gambling" because youre using (hopefully) discretionary funds and taking a "chance" that you will win !

Those amongst us who succeed will normally admit that, in truth, they are "gambling" although these gambles are taken with a method and knowledge to back them up.

years ago there was a "thrill" to my chasing the price and more a thrill when i won --- over the years trading has become, shall i say, a bit boring and i wouldnt have it any other way !

when the "gambling" "RUSH" decreases, the mind comes into play, and when the mind has taken over from the testosterone and the rush, you can PLAN and work out a STRATEGY !

so while what we do is still a definite form of "gambling" with education and time, for those who are truly interested and love the "challenges, stratagies and walking away a winner", the gambling turns a bit and becomes "something else".

I firmly believe, using a "broker" which is what you peeps refer to as a "spread better", or an ECN which you call a DNA (or something like that) one is making EDUCATED DECISIONS in an endevor to create profits ---- for me, its not a war or a battle --- it has NOTHING to do with ODDS !

ITS SIMPLY MY MIND AND EXPERIENCE telling and showing me where the profit lays, and then getting to that point !

while it still may be "rich mans gambling", the internet has opened this game up to the masses ---- the only problem being the masses dont have the experience to play the game, and THEY are gambling !

enjoy and trade well

mp

cpfd said:

My wife reckons spread betting/trading is just another form of gambling...the 'house' always wins.
I reckon she is partially right but feel it is more akin to playing poker i.e. an element of skill and discipline is involved to be successful and not just luck.

What are your thoughts?

Click to expand...

I do hope your wife is aware of the fact that she was gambling when she bought a house on a mortgage!

like an earlier poster pointed out its the term"spread betting"that is of issue
it it was renamed something else then people would have a different perspective of it.

gamma said:

I do hope your wife is aware of the fact that she was gambling when she bought a house on a mortgage!

like an earlier poster pointed out its the term"spread betting"that is of issue
it it was renamed something else then people would have a different perspective of it.

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indeed agreed gamma --- here "spread betters" are called "brokers" and that adds a TREMENDOUS legitimacy to the whole process, which was what i was trying to point out above !

When one KNOWS how the market works, the concept of "betting" has to be changed to something else, but i dont believe theres a word in our combined languages that covers it sufficiently !

we need a NEW WORD !

mp

Two tangentially relevant observations...

1. Nobody has picked-up on the massive difference between gambling where no/little skill is involved (bingo/roulette) and where it is (poker etc).

2. Barclays, and others, call it 'financial spread trading'. Their brand + this term = immediate respectability

RGB.

RedGreenBen said:

Two tangentially relevant observations...

1. Nobody has picked-up on the massive difference between gambling where no/little skill is involved (bingo/roulette) and where it is (poker etc).

2. Barclays, and others, call it 'financial spread trading'. Their brand + this term = immediate respectability

RGB.

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indeed RGBen -- what i was suggesting a few posts up --- with higher class money comes higher class words.

so, with agreement, let us define "gambling" as "the placing of a wager on a situation whose outcome is decided by odds and not education"

and trading as "the placing of a wager on a situation whose outcome is decided by learnable movements and momentum and observable patterns of price movement "

YEAH, I LIKE THAT !

mp

I like it but try telling everyone you know that you are involved in
"the placing of a wager on a situation whose outcome is decided by learnable movements and momentum and observable patterns of price movement "
lol

At least it will shut them up and not call u a gambler.

Life is a gamble.
Walking downstairs each day is a gamble; it's a massive risk. Get it wrong and it could kill you. Ditto with crossing a road. Most of us acquire the necessary knowledge and skills to perform both tasks repeatedly, easily and safely. Every once in a while some of us get it wrong and fail to assess the risk correctly. Laura Ashley (of fashion designer fame) died from a fall downstairs and my physics teacher at school was knocked down by a car - breaking both his legs - after he looked the wrong way down a one way street. Trading is no different to these activities, it's an acquired skill akin to learning to play chess or a musical instrument. If this wasn't the case, then it would be totally impossible for successful traders to consistently take money out of the markets day after day, week after week and month after month.
Tim.

Very well explained
Unfortunately people seem to only think of gambling in the financial sense