Had not realised there was such a thing. Lots of systems generate signals but if TA-based, they are not necessarily uniquely for spreadbetting, any vehicle would do.
Any decent SB platform will generate alarms or trigger pre-entered orders and show you their historic price charts but be aware that these relate usually to the market they offer, not the underlying instrument. e.g. Finspreads are offering a market in the Dow (Rolling, no expiry date) at 12240 to buy, 12234 to sell, so mid-price 12237. The Dow is actually at 12207.2.
Any decent SB platform will generate alarms or trigger pre-entered orders and show you their historic price charts but be aware that these relate usually to the market they offer, not the underlying instrument. e.g. Finspreads are offering a market in the Dow (Rolling, no expiry date) at 12240 to buy, 12234 to sell, so mid-price 12237. The Dow is actually at 12207.2.
shadowninja
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Why aren't normal trading signals ok?
And can you point us towards 'lem trader' and 'eodsignals'? I couldn't find anything on either via T2W search or Google (I can see that signals that allow for the bias betwen the SB price and actual underlying market might be useful so I genuinely would like to look into it).
Lee Shepherd
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Hi tomorton,
Being a Finspreads regular user(every day,all day, for 4 years) I've never incountered a big gap like what you've stated, 30pts difference. Where was you getting the other quoted price from? I compare against bloomberg but this has a transmission delay and of sometimes a couple of minutes. A lot of other sites can be delayed by 15-20 minutes.
Due to the spreads they are usually always out but only by a few pts at any given time, Just wondered cos as i say, i've never seen this size gap. If you have been trading off these prices or have seen these differences I would put a call to finspreads, I bounce off another trading partner who also uses Finspreads and he also hasn't seen any thing of this nature, check with Finpsreads or your PC settings as your platform may be running slow, either that or the other quoted price may be out of sync.
Being a Finspreads regular user(every day,all day, for 4 years) I've never incountered a big gap like what you've stated, 30pts difference. Where was you getting the other quoted price from? I compare against bloomberg but this has a transmission delay and of sometimes a couple of minutes. A lot of other sites can be delayed by 15-20 minutes.
Due to the spreads they are usually always out but only by a few pts at any given time, Just wondered cos as i say, i've never seen this size gap. If you have been trading off these prices or have seen these differences I would put a call to finspreads, I bounce off another trading partner who also uses Finspreads and he also hasn't seen any thing of this nature, check with Finpsreads or your PC settings as your platform may be running slow, either that or the other quoted price may be out of sync.
hello lee -
thanks, you have made me think. when i read your post i thought - the rolling quote should never that far from the underlying index, i must have made a mistake. however, looking back i see that 27/01 was a sunday and the prices quoted were from the close of the friday night, hence the skew. i don't think i was cheating, as many people will place orders outside NY market hours and that was my poin. but, yes, within NY hours the gap between the Rolling quote and the real Dow should be negligible.
thanks, you have made me think. when i read your post i thought - the rolling quote should never that far from the underlying index, i must have made a mistake. however, looking back i see that 27/01 was a sunday and the prices quoted were from the close of the friday night, hence the skew. i don't think i was cheating, as many people will place orders outside NY market hours and that was my poin. but, yes, within NY hours the gap between the Rolling quote and the real Dow should be negligible.
Jeez, tomorton,
I don't trade the Dow, but you had me worried there, for a while. I've been with Fins since before they went online and, when I buy shares with another broker, I take the opportunity to check one against the other. No appreciable difference with Footsie.
Split
Lee Shepherd
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Hi Tomorton,
What do you use to compare prices against your platform?
Explain by what you mean outside NY hours?
What do you use to compare prices against your platform?
Explain by what you mean outside NY hours?
hi lee -
NY hours means the hours the NY market is actually trading - i think in UK terms this is 2:30pm to 9:15pm.
however, finspreads etc. offer a market in for example the Dow and S&P well outside these hours. if the Dow closes at 9:15pm tonight at say 13800, Fins will continue to quote deals based on the Dow and by tmorrow morning these could be well adrift from today's real closing price. this is a problem as the TA you will see on Fins platform looks different to the actual chart for the Dow: if you use charts, hghs, lows etc. to derive your entry / exit points / stops the difference can have a big impact. what looks like a good entry point on the dow chart that dates from 9:15pm tonight can have evaporated by this morning.
There are real implications but you have to see it to appreciate how these might affect your trading: they will be more or less crucial dependent on your style.
NY hours means the hours the NY market is actually trading - i think in UK terms this is 2:30pm to 9:15pm.
however, finspreads etc. offer a market in for example the Dow and S&P well outside these hours. if the Dow closes at 9:15pm tonight at say 13800, Fins will continue to quote deals based on the Dow and by tmorrow morning these could be well adrift from today's real closing price. this is a problem as the TA you will see on Fins platform looks different to the actual chart for the Dow: if you use charts, hghs, lows etc. to derive your entry / exit points / stops the difference can have a big impact. what looks like a good entry point on the dow chart that dates from 9:15pm tonight can have evaporated by this morning.
There are real implications but you have to see it to appreciate how these might affect your trading: they will be more or less crucial dependent on your style.
Lee Shepherd
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Hello tomorton,
How long you been in this game mate???
Not sure what you mean by 'actually trading' and 'finspreads quotes outside these hour'???
I assume when you say 'actually trading' you mean open outcry...not sure whether its just finspread that allow after these hours (open outcry) to be traded...maybe in the FUTURE i'll find out..
'Todays real closing price', again I assume your talking about what you see on mainstream telly and read in papers..try bloomberg or live streaming quotes, this may help you in the FUTURE.
Dont you ever wonder why the markets open up or down by several points, sometimes even hundreds of points different to the 'actual close'.???
Have you heard of electronic trading, after hours trading, futures trading.
Hey what do I know...I'm still new to this game.
How long you been in this game mate???
Not sure what you mean by 'actually trading' and 'finspreads quotes outside these hour'???
I assume when you say 'actually trading' you mean open outcry...not sure whether its just finspread that allow after these hours (open outcry) to be traded...maybe in the FUTURE i'll find out..
'Todays real closing price', again I assume your talking about what you see on mainstream telly and read in papers..try bloomberg or live streaming quotes, this may help you in the FUTURE.
Dont you ever wonder why the markets open up or down by several points, sometimes even hundreds of points different to the 'actual close'.???
Have you heard of electronic trading, after hours trading, futures trading.
Hey what do I know...I'm still new to this game.
Hi lee -
Spreadbetting only since 2003 but its easy to rack up thousands of trades in that sort of time. Either way I'm still learning and experimenting.
Yes, by references to a market or index actually trading I mean the hours that e.g. the FTSE100 index, as designed and operated by the FTSE Group, is being derived from trades in the FTSE100 companies, during London Stock Exchange hours - 0800 to 1630. SB companies offer a market in the FTSE100 over various time periods more or less 24 hours a day. The 'real' price therefore for the FTSE100 at this precise minute is what it closed at yesterday at 4:30pm as today is a Saturday - 5888.5. But because the SB market continues to move up and down after that time, you won't be able to open a long position on the FTSE100 Daily Cash market for Monday at that price from e.g. Finspreads - if you think the FTSE100 is going up in Moday's session you would have to pay 5918.2: the US markets turned upwards after London closed and the SB market followed it. Therefore, Fins currently expect the FTSE100 to open about 30pts higher on Monday than it closed on Friday: they are probably right. But if you place a sell order on the Daily Cash at this minute and go short at their sell quote of 5912.2, and Fins are wrong, and the index opens at 8 Monday at exactly where it closed Friday, you will automatically be a winner at 8 on Monday with points on your side.
I would advise that you paper trade for as long as it takes to learn the platform mechanics, also attend a Fins (or other) SB training course. Then start trading tiny amounts - the SBs often let you trade at pence per point for a starter period. When you consistently make the right decisions about your pence, gradually ramp up the size of your stakes. Remember, the game changes as soon as you put real money in.
Best wishes.
Lee Shepherd
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I've paper traded before...I'm bored with that.
Thanks for the advice...I'm probably just gonna risk it all on the ftse100 going down on monday..finspreads are probably wrong...I'll short it or whatever its called...I'll beat the market at it's own game...
Thanks for the advice...I'm probably just gonna risk it all on the ftse100 going down on monday..finspreads are probably wrong...I'll short it or whatever its called...I'll beat the market at it's own game...
Directional
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if you want to gamble, you're better going to a casino, at least you will have more fun.
if you want to approach trading as a business, and would like to make an income from it, you need to plan your trades, and then trade your plan. Its a boring old cliche, but if you can prove you have an edge through papertrading first, the cliche works.
Its no good going down that road for one very good reason. You may win on Monday but the market is infinitely bigger than you. It doesn't care whether you are right or wrong.
It doesn't care----period. There are thousands of other traders to take your place when you are gone.
One of these days, or one of these trades, it will get you, unless you study a system that will, statistically, work over a period of time and which is designed to take money from it. It won't be offended if you take money from it, either. It won't, even, realise. You will realise, though, and that is the basic difference between you and the market.
I don't now what system you like to work with and it doesn't matter. I look at most of the ideas expressed on these boards and most of them work.
What does not work is the traders attitude, nine times out of ten. He gets fed up with his method and, before he gets satisfactory results, drops the idea and goes to another one expressed by another poster. In other words, he is not a trader---he's a grasshopper.
Don't you be like that and remember to divide your capital so that you can, always, come back if you decide that your system is not a good idea. You can trade for 50p per point if you are fed up with paper trading.
Split
black bear
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Good advice= take it imho
All very good advice,
I am only posting on holiday to save whoever some money and anyone else who thinks they are BIGGER than the market
Split is correct 120%
If you want to trade the overnight market you would do worse than learn normal pivot points, its calc is of high low and close and I have found them a valuble aid for judging price action next day and open etc ( have used them for close to 2 yrs so not a grasshopper
Using Pivot Points for Predictions
the word predictions in above link is an error on the part of person who headed the article for investopedia, no one can predict the next tick, NO ONE
The article is basic and gives you the calc equation so......
put pivot calc in excel, then all you need to do is enter High Low and Close to get your next days pivots. Work out dow and ftse of the official close not sb firms prices (c-fax or yahoo finance) Dont use pivot points in IG or Cmc charting software, they are based off their prices and are out by quite a bit some days.
so at the minute we have with ig index the ftse at R1 6950 and the dow at 1/2 way gap pivot to R1 and just under pdh
If you use them daily and ........well its self explaining really = if we are at R2 and sat at pwh and the dow is still at pivot , take a look for more than 10 minutes and write down a cunning plan to take advantage. I assure you after a month of watching you will be able to find some stand out trades based on the overnight mark ups by sb firms/gap opens if you like, personally I have found there is absolutely no need what so ever to enter before the real market opens to make money trading
Get a plan and trade it !
and paper is well cheaper than real money, and if you can not trade pretend money for a profit how the hell do you expect to trade the real thing for a profit :?:
Like this, found it when reading some very good db thread ~ red bit can not be substituted imho, sorry
"The spider does not need to "feed" everyday. He is content to wait until a morsel comes his way, patient and secure in the knowledge that he has taken the steps necessary for his survival. His carefully crafted web transmits to him all sorts of information. But he knows how to identify the false signals~ the wind vibrating his web, a drop of rain~ from the real thing enmeshed in it. Why does he know it so intimately? Because he has carefully constructed his web himself. No one else can build it for him. As a result, the configuration of his web is as uniquely his as his fingerprints. Most important, the spider is patient. He waits until he sees a convergence of most all of his indicators before he acts; but when he does, he pounces aggressively and without hesitation.
-- asmae"
Pinkpig away, no trading next week for me,:whistling
Still on holiday,
all trade well and good Luck :clover:
All very good advice,
I am only posting on holiday to save whoever some money and anyone else who thinks they are BIGGER than the market
Split is correct 120%
If you want to trade the overnight market you would do worse than learn normal pivot points, its calc is of high low and close and I have found them a valuble aid for judging price action next day and open etc ( have used them for close to 2 yrs so not a grasshopper
Using Pivot Points for Predictions
the word predictions in above link is an error on the part of person who headed the article for investopedia, no one can predict the next tick, NO ONE
The article is basic and gives you the calc equation so......
put pivot calc in excel, then all you need to do is enter High Low and Close to get your next days pivots. Work out dow and ftse of the official close not sb firms prices (c-fax or yahoo finance) Dont use pivot points in IG or Cmc charting software, they are based off their prices and are out by quite a bit some days.
so at the minute we have with ig index the ftse at R1 6950 and the dow at 1/2 way gap pivot to R1 and just under pdh
If you use them daily and ........well its self explaining really = if we are at R2 and sat at pwh and the dow is still at pivot , take a look for more than 10 minutes and write down a cunning plan to take advantage. I assure you after a month of watching you will be able to find some stand out trades based on the overnight mark ups by sb firms/gap opens if you like, personally I have found there is absolutely no need what so ever to enter before the real market opens to make money trading
Get a plan and trade it !
and paper is well cheaper than real money, and if you can not trade pretend money for a profit how the hell do you expect to trade the real thing for a profit :?:
Like this, found it when reading some very good db thread ~ red bit can not be substituted imho, sorry
"The spider does not need to "feed" everyday. He is content to wait until a morsel comes his way, patient and secure in the knowledge that he has taken the steps necessary for his survival. His carefully crafted web transmits to him all sorts of information. But he knows how to identify the false signals~ the wind vibrating his web, a drop of rain~ from the real thing enmeshed in it. Why does he know it so intimately? Because he has carefully constructed his web himself. No one else can build it for him. As a result, the configuration of his web is as uniquely his as his fingerprints. Most important, the spider is patient. He waits until he sees a convergence of most all of his indicators before he acts; but when he does, he pounces aggressively and without hesitation.
-- asmae"
Pinkpig away, no trading next week for me,:whistling
Still on holiday,
all trade well and good Luck :clover:
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barjon
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lee
Can i join the chorus
The dow rose around 160 points after ftse close and since ftse tends to shadow the dow that's equivalent to around 80 points on ftse. Finspreads price merely reflects that, so you can't say they are "wrong".
That's not to say the ftse will open up at their quoted levels tomorrow, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't open significantly higher than Friday's close. If the signs via futures are against that, then Fins will be quick to drop their quote pre market and you won't get anywhere near the price showing now.
good trading
jon
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Am I the only who thinks LS is not being 100% serious?