Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

This is a discussion on Beliefs That Sabotage Traders within the Psychology, Risk & Money Management forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by Rande Howell Not much of a mind over matter person. It is the mindset that intersects possibility ...

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Old Jun 11, 2011, 12:04am   #25
 
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Re: Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

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Originally Posted by Rande Howell View Post
Not much of a mind over matter person. It is the mindset that intersects possibility that interest me. The same uncertainty will be seen by all traders. Some have a methodology that allows them to have a edge applied over time. Some have the methodology training, but when they see the set ups they find reasons not to act -- they hesitate. Others see the same set ups and have built an attitude that allows them to trade based on meeting criterion of trading plan -- impartiality. The mindset that embraces the uncertainty determines probability of outcome. Or as Schroinger's equation observes, "The act of observing an experiment, does in fact, change the course of the experiment."
Rande Howell
Interesting answer - apologies if I carelessly categorised your post as "mind over matter". But I do seriously think that your observations and practices are probably more useful to some than others.

I wonder if the "same uncertainty" is seen by all traders? Obviously everybody sees more or less the same data and info, but what do they perceive? (Sherlock's point?). If this were not the case surely there wouldn't be buyers & sellers for the same instrument?

I thoroughly agree your point on impartiality - and believe this to be a major part of successful trading.
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 3:01am   #26
 
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Re: Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

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Maybe all that touching stuff is why traders stay blind to the possibility that is right in front of their face.

Rande Howell
Actually, I believe that most traders fail because they don't know how to trade.

The psych stuff is OK once people have a clue what they are doing. Given that most have no idea - wouldn't giving them more confidence to hit the button when they see a 'setup' just cause them to lose more quickly?
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 2:46pm   #27
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Re: Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

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Originally Posted by 0007 View Post
Interesting answer - apologies if I carelessly categorised your post as "mind over matter". But I do seriously think that your observations and practices are probably more useful to some than others.

I wonder if the "same uncertainty" is seen by all traders? Obviously everybody sees more or less the same data and info, but what do they perceive? (Sherlock's point?). If this were not the case surely there wouldn't be buyers & sellers for the same instrument?

I thoroughly agree your point on impartiality - and believe this to be a major part of successful trading.
You are right. I have found that black and white thinkers do not do well with me. Also people who are not willing to examine themselves. People who believe the Holy Grail is "out there" waiting to be found. And there are many people who think and perceive this way. There has to be some awareness that they are the ones creating their own reality. Reality is not "out there". Our perception of reality is based on the observer that we are. If there is not a buy in at that point, then what I find is that people are looking for psychological tips and tricks, say like pure NLP or affirmations. My position is that beliefs and perception rooted in those beliefs are the elements of self that have to be changed. I am not effective with people who have not discovered that they are the problem, not their methods.

I have found very few brain/minds to have been shaped to trade well. Getting to that impartiality and discipline is like trying to tell a horse in a burning barn to remain calm and simply walk out of the barn by carefully considering its options. Fortunately, belief can be changed.

The observer that we bring to uncertainty is what allows the trader to see what they see. A really good trader, as a trained observer of market phenomena, is seeing distinctions through his skill and impartial mindset that a fear based trader does not see. Very different observers of uncertainty. There is a great Zen koan that goes like this. Things are not always what they seem to be -- nor are they any other way.

Rande Howell
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Old May 13, 2012, 10:49am   #28
 
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Re: Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

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Actually...most traders fail because they don't know how to trade.
how to single-handedly close a thread....
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Old May 14, 2012, 1:01pm   #29
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Re: Beliefs That Sabotage Traders

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how to single-handedly close a thread....
Not sure if this the beginning or end of a thread.... but about not knowing how to trade and losing money. What I find is that traders develop the capacity to trade effectively on sim when there is no real and present risk of losing. That is the context that they know how to trade in. However, when they move from the comfort of arm chair trading to live trading, their game falls apart. Different context where uncertainty and probability provide a different set of rules for trading effectively. Here, their beliefs about being able to manage uncertainty are exposed. Instead of learning from failure, they avoid the perceived threat -- therefore they stay stuck at failure.

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Old Jun 11, 2017, 11:34am   #30
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Rande'a article has different views , but there is more to self sabotage.This article is start followed by a good read on google search about "SELF SABOTAGE"
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Old Jun 11, 2017, 10:09pm   #31
 
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Old Jun 12, 2017, 1:00pm   #32
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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
Actually, I believe that most traders fail because they don't know how to trade.

The psych stuff is OK once people have a clue what they are doing. Given that most have no idea - wouldn't giving them more confidence to hit the button when they see a 'setup' just cause them to lose more quickly?
I see he exist no more ,for he had no clue , for he pressed buttons and lost it all.
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