Spread betting FRAUD

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fibonacci

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I feel like I have been scammed, but I would like the view of other senior traders and guys who have experience of markets.
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151, the market closed at 6177 at 5:30 on friday. On monday Morning the opening was 6166 and low was 6163 and so far the high has been 6223.

I have been told I was stopped out on friday at 8:10(after the exchange was closed) according to inhouse quoting by IG INDEX as they quote a price 24 hours a day. They say that the low was 6151 right where my stop was and they do this on the basis of other markets that are trading at that time and the fluctuations taking place at that point. IS this a scam on their part ? they have inhouse information as to where all the stops and positions are held by their clients and can make a market in order to stop them out. Please comment????
 
fibonacci said:
I feel like I have been scammed, but I would like the view of other senior traders and guys who have experience of markets.
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151, the market closed at 6177 at 5:30 on friday. On monday Morning the opening was 6166 and low was 6163 and so far the high has been 6223.

I have been told I was stopped out on friday at 8:10(after the exchange was closed) according to inhouse quoting by IG INDEX as they quote a price 24 hours a day. They say that the low was 6151 right where my stop was and they do this on the basis of other markets that are trading at that time and the fluctuations taking place at that point. IS this a scam on their part ? they have inhouse information as to where all the stops and positions are held by their clients and can make a market in order to stop them out. Please comment????
Click to expand...

In short the answer is NO, this is not a scam.

Be careful when trading the FSTE or other European markets because the price movements of the US markets will affect them accordingly throughout the US session >9.15pm UK time.

When trading with spread betting companies you're not trading the underlying index, you're trading IG's version of that market.

I suggest you do some research on the spread betting companies, their activities and other traders experiences of them. Lots of information can be found on this forum.

hope this helps
 
Slapshot said:
In short the answer is NO, this is not a scam.

Be careful when trading the FSTE or other European markets because the price movements of the US markets will affect them accordingly throughout the US session >9.15pm UK time.

When trading with spread betting companies you're not trading the underlying index, you're trading IG's version of that market.

I suggest you do some research on the spread betting companies, their activities and other traders experiences of them. Lots of information can be found on this forum.

hope this helps
Click to expand...

I agree. If you are holding overnight beyond the close, you have to be prepared for such incidences.
Fib, i agree with you that this system has the potential to be abused by the SB - stop-hunting etc. But if you trade despite this, you are vulnerable to the potential abuse.
The alternative to trading real FTSE futures contracts, and continuing with the SB route is to only day trade (not hold open positions beyond the session close) or look at futuresbetting.com
 
fibonacci said:
I feel like I have been scammed, but I would like the view of other senior traders and guys who have experience of markets.
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151, the market closed at 6177 at 5:30 on friday. On monday Morning the opening was 6166 and low was 6163 and so far the high has been 6223.

I have been told I was stopped out on friday at 8:10(after the exchange was closed) according to inhouse quoting by IG INDEX as they quote a price 24 hours a day. They say that the low was 6151 right where my stop was and they do this on the basis of other markets that are trading at that time and the fluctuations taking place at that point. IS this a scam on their part ? they have inhouse information as to where all the stops and positions are held by their clients and can make a market in order to stop them out. Please comment????
Click to expand...

It happened to me years ago with IG. I protested and got a call back explaining everything but I had been stopped and that was that.

Lots of horrible things can happen in the dead of night. I prefer to be out unless I already have a profit buffer.

Split
 
Would have thought (just a guess) that they would benchmark the FTSE after hours with the Dow or (more probably) the S&P, 20.17 London time on Friday was the low of the S&P.
 
fibonacci said:
I feel like I have been scammed, but I would like the view of other senior traders and guys who have experience of markets.
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151, the market closed at 6177 at 5:30 on friday. On monday Morning the opening was 6166 and low was 6163 and so far the high has been 6223.

I have been told I was stopped out on friday at 8:10(after the exchange was closed) according to inhouse quoting by IG INDEX as they quote a price 24 hours a day. They say that the low was 6151 right where my stop was and they do this on the basis of other markets that are trading at that time and the fluctuations taking place at that point. IS this a scam on their part ? they have inhouse information as to where all the stops and positions are held by their clients and can make a market in order to stop them out. Please comment????
Click to expand...

The problem here is that you failed to research properly how SB markets work. If the DJI plummets by 200 points and then recovers to previous levels - the FTSE cash quote will fall sharply also even though the market has closed.

When creating your strategy to trade the FTSE cash you need to take this into account - you can't rely on yahoo data for instance to formulate a plan.
 
Splitlink said:
Lots of horrible things can happen in the dead of night. I prefer to be out unless I already have a profit buffer.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I've seen enough positions vaguely in profit with a stop below b/e get stopped out to not open a position in the evening.
 
I echo everything that has been said. The electronic market needs a different type of stop involving more risk.
George
 
The electronic market needs a different type of stop involving more risk.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this as I would have thought less risk is preferable ?


Paul
 
It's all about taking the 'easy money' from the markets...

What I mean to say is that during the key hours of the day you can obtain pips easier as the liquidity is there and it's 'real' rather than outside of normal hours where the SB firms make it up. Why spend hours on a Sunday night trying to make 10 pips when you can trade fewer hours, like from 0700-1100 during the week and hide behind the big boys moving things along?

The whole aim for me with trading is to maximise my hourly earnings. If I can earn a decent wage in a four hour period and then take the rest of the day off then I'll be happy. I don't want to take over the world just overtake my salary so I can give up the day job.

SBetting has it's place, but don't believe that they want winners outside of the market hours. The software can be programmed to do what they wish very easily out of market trading times I'm sure! :devilish:
 
Less risk is preferable but if you leave a trade on overnight then know that this risk is much greater.
The stops used in overnight trades are completely different to say trades.
Only the brave or the gamblers use overnight trades unless they sort out realistic stops.
George
Trader333 said:
What do you mean by this as I would have thought less risk is preferable ?


Paul
Click to expand...
 
DAY TRADES, NOT SAY TRADES!!
George
2George said:
Less risk is preferable but if you leave a trade on overnight then know that this risk is much greater.
The stops used in overnight trades are completely different to say trades.
Only the brave or the gamblers use overnight trades unless they sort out realistic stops.
George
Click to expand...
 
fibonacci said:
I feel like I have been scammed, but I would like the view of other senior traders and guys who have experience of markets.
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151, the market closed at 6177 at 5:30 on friday. On monday Morning the opening was 6166 and low was 6163 and so far the high has been 6223.

I have been told I was stopped out on friday at 8:10(after the exchange was closed) according to inhouse quoting by IG INDEX as they quote a price 24 hours a day. They say that the low was 6151 right where my stop was and they do this on the basis of other markets that are trading at that time and the fluctuations taking place at that point. IS this a scam on their part ? they have inhouse information as to where all the stops and positions are held by their clients and can make a market in order to stop them out. Please comment????
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure from when i used to use IGI you can trade the FTSE FUTURES closest expiration contract as apposed to the cash, you should have done this as i believe they are not quoted as a 24 hour market, ring them up and ask to check though, a relatively cheap lesson you have learnt i hope, so long as you didn't over leverage!
 
2George said:
Less risk is preferable but if you leave a trade on overnight then know that this risk is much greater.
The stops used in overnight trades are completely different to say trades.
Only the brave or the gamblers use overnight trades unless they sort out realistic stops.
George
Click to expand...

I actually think that as long as you position size relative to the volatility of the time frame you are trading the risk is no greater. That may not be the case with SB companies but I have not found it to be an issue using direct access.


Paul
 
fibonacci said:
I traded with IG INDEX on friday going long on the FTSE 100 March at 6181.. with a stop at 6151,
Click to expand...

I don't (yet) trade the FTSE, so a couple of questions for those experienced with this instrument on SB basis:

(1) the stop above is 0.5%, I don't know what the suport / resistance levels were but it seems a bit close unless daytrading where you can monitor things - what's consisdered opinion on this?

(2) Is there any way of deducing how SB companies organise their quote levels - my aim would be to ensure stops outside their limits. Or do any of the SB companies spike out even really wide stops?
 
Fibonacci, the best way to avoid being stopped out after the market closes on any FTSE contract is to leave a screen order instead of a market order. What this means is that your order wont be watched outside of market hours because the exchange isn't open. The only problem you'll have with screen orders instead of market orders is that you wont have any protection against large US moves. Also I don't think IG offer these kind of orders anymore but I'm sure other spread betters do.
 
KaKaMyPants said:
Fibonacci, the best way to avoid being stopped out after the market closes on any FTSE contract is to leave a screen order instead of a market order. What this means is that your order wont be watched outside of market hours because the exchange isn't open. The only problem you'll have with screen orders instead of market orders is that you wont have any protection against large US moves. Also I don't think IG offer these kind of orders anymore but I'm sure other spread betters do.
Click to expand...

I used them with City Index, but that was years ago. You could change to one or the other after hours, too, if you wanted.

Split
 
Splitlink said:
I used them with City Index, but that was years ago. You could change to one or the other after hours, too, if you wanted.

Split
Click to expand...
City Index are one of the companies I use and they still do screen orders but over the telephone only. From my experience their one of the better companies for leaving orders with as most seem to have a one touch your out policy.

KaKa
 
KaKaMyPants said:
City Index are one of the companies I use and they still do screen orders but over the telephone only. From my experience their one of the better companies for leaving orders with as most seem to have a one touch your out policy.

KaKa
Click to expand...

Yes, they were good and I enjoyed trading with them. We parted company when they didn't register a closing trade I made so, take my advice and do not be careless with logging times when on the phone. I could have lost a lot of money and, although, they made it up I decided that I didn't want to stay with them. They swore that their dealers did not make those mistakes, but they were wrong.

Split
 
It's ok spilt I've been trading with Spreadex, City, CMC, Fins and IG for nearly 8 years so I dont need the advice, but thanks anyway. What I would say is that when it comes to orders from that 5 IG are the worst. I've had numerous times when I've been filled by IG in market hours, in normal market conditions through my stop level.
 
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