trading career kickoff

Hello all,

I have been getting interested in trading commodity over the past 6 months.I am on a Chemical engineering course at UCL. For my masters, ill go to Imperial (if i get a first). i researched the engineering companies that offer trading first. Now that i am about to go to my final year, commencing this september, i want to apply to as many trading companies as possible and as early as possible. From my research, i understand the following companies hold a spot for trading.

Exxonmobile ( These guys definitly had trading jobs for graduates in the past but for 2010 recruitment, i am not sure if they still do it. The link does not go through and when u apply, there is no option of supply and trading. I have emailed them and awaiting a reply). I got turned down for a process engineering internship last year with them.

Shell: applied for an internship last year and failed (for process engineering), now i gotta apply for graduate position.

BP:- Need to do a bit more research into them, but they have posts opening up for 2010.

Trafigura: I applied to the summer internship programme. Got till the aptitude tests and now waiting to hear from them. If i dont get the internship, ill apply again next year for the graduate programme.

Glencore- Hardcore bunch of people. $150 billion turnover with 2000 people. i assume its very hard to get into it. I am going to apply very early to these guys.

RBS:- These guys do it as well. I need to do more research into them as last year i was planning to go into engineering.

I know total dont have graduate do it but i came across a website called TOTSA that has an email link to HR page.

i have a list of about 20 other companies to apply to.

I have 3 months now, so i need to stop being a waste and learn a few relevant new skills. I Am enrolling on a french course. getting my driving licence and learning piano ( i know its not relavant but its a skill which i have wanted to learn since childhood). If u guys suggest any outher relavent skills, ill take it up. I am having an operation this year (suffice to say i wont be able to move great deals over the summer). So i am looking for intellectual skills which i can develop from limited movement. I have £1000 to spend.

I have been paper trading on Ava Fx for last month or so ( i trade all commodities, not only oil). I am making profits but i am not too keep on putting my money on it, because i prefer to go long term, so in the short term, my margin may dwindle and they might as me to put more. Therefore i am not going to put my £1000 into that.

If i do manage to get a trading spot (fingers crossed), in a bank, what kind of jobs will they expect me to do? I hope they dont ask me to trade all day (it can get boring after a few hours of graph staring and data searching a day). I know some banks make u an analyst where u analyze data and pass it on to clients. Does that fill you up for 12 hours a day? How does the career progress from there?

Could someone shed insight into how many applications are there per trading spot, general starting pay, job satisfaction etc?

A friend told me, that a friend of his got a graduate job with JP morgan as a trading analyst. His starting pay is £46k and he came from LSE ( i have no ways to check if this is true). But still, JP morgan was bailed out and they are offering such a high rate for starters. I was expecting it to be around £30k max but faster progression if you are good. I know that trading commodities can still make money if your fundamental analysis is correct weather or not recession is looming outside. Therefore, what are the bonuses we are looking at (in terms of percentage of PNL), for starters? Or are all banks reducing the bonuses they give out?

Thx

Levin

P.S i posted this message under the commodities section. But i did not get any replys due to inactivity on that forum. So mods, plz dont delete it ;-).

analyst is different to a trader, a trader works in the market and analyst does analysis on equities or whatever that may then be reproduced for clients, i imagine it is boring as s***. there are 3 different types of trader:

sales,flow,prop - sales and flow involve long hours, getting paid as much per hour as you get a mac donalds and sitting at the computer all day. Basically, it isn't a great job unless you really like trading. Don't know too much about prop trading but your trading for the bank.

With sales trading your a salesman, with flow trading your a marketmaker and with prop trading you do whatever you want i suppose but the big ibs have cut down here most and getting a job would be hard to say the least, if you want to trade prop hedge funds are a better option, i have been told. So you will sit at the computer most days making calls or receiving calls. I am not a trader, there are people such as GammaJammer who do this job so what i say may be wrong, but i have looked at this extensively.

Applications per spot are enormous, starting pay is low, sales and trading though is probablly quite good, better than investment banking services maybe? Job satisfaction is high, if you like it...If your asking about bonuses, this industry will break you and you will not get through interviews, there are far easier ways to make money than trading. Bonuses are ridiculous anyway you look at it, if you make a lot, your disappointed, if you dont you get fired, they have you by the balls! The money will obviously be a lot less in years to come as well.

Hope that helped, dont get discouraged, i was at first when someone told me the truth, but if you want to make money trading for a bank won't be it.

Thx for the reply cr6196

I think trading commodities can be part of the job for Ibs and hedge funds. But the 25 places i have jotted down, listed trading under a different section to Ibs.

Eventually i want to break into the energy commodity trading sector. Not sure as how i should break through. I know the engineering firms such as shell and BP trade only oil and gas. Not completely sure about banks though. If you go to the recruitment sites for most major banks, they say they deal with commodities so i added them to my list of 25 companies.

Anyone know how companies like trafigura and glencore make their money?

If your prop trading you will allowed to trade, in most instances anything, in an ib you can work sales/flow trading in the commodities section...i would assume all investment banks would have the facilities to offer commodity trading to their customers...

What do you want to do? Trader by itself isn't really a job beyond working in a market, do you want to trade your own pnl? Do you want make markets? Do you want to take commissions off a customers trade?

I believe the basis of their business to be supplying, in one or another, raw materials to companies...although tragifua does appear to have an asset management side as well...trafigua appear to make their money from the difference between what they bought for and sold for and glencore appear to invest directly in mines, wells etc etc