Getting a "foot in the door" if over 30

Hi,

I've been a reader of this website's forums for well over a year now and have been continually impressed with peoples' willingness to offer frank and constructive advice to others. That's encouraged me to post here in the hope I might get some good pointers. I've been interested in the markets (equities / futures) and followed them since the mid 80s when I was a teenager. For various reasons I didn't pursue a career in this arena as I was badly advised at school and later in college. Instead I earned degrees in business and law from good unis and have spent the last 10 years working very successfully as a business consultant with heaps of experience working all over the world. I recently finished a project and now, really for the first time in those 10 years have had a chance to think about what's next. I guess turning 30 has made me evaluate what I really want to spend my working life on. It's clear to me that my "first love" is the markets and I really want to work in them, preferably as an equity investor / fund manager / analyst. However I fear many will look on me as too old to start in the City. I'm happy to start wherever and work my way through and I don't expect this will come without sacrifice but my problem is I don't know where to start. I've spent a long time studying both technical and fundamental analysis and also have traded a small account with reasonable success for the past 2 years. I'm also following the CFA curriculum with a view to getting to level 1. I'm ready to put in the time and effort (and take the substantial pay cut!). I'm even willing to move overseas if that would help. I have made a success of every project I have ever run through simple hard work, careful planning and determination and this would be no different for me. I just don't know if I have a chance of being taken seriously by any firms I apply to. I would appreciate any pointers on what first steps I should take. Thanks....

NT

I think finding a position as a fund manager might be tricky at your stage, but you've a reasonable chance of buy/sell-side analyst in a sector that you have 'industry experience' of. Having a few years under your belt on the analyst side is not a bad thing - 'teenage scribblers' is their nickname and both captains of industry and senior fund managers aren't keen on taking advice from people who look like they could still be in school. Find a good recruitment consultant (FT on Thursdays, or e-financial careers) and see what they advise. Also getting employed in a bull market is a lot easier than doing it in a bear market, so you might want to get your skates on if you want to get in during the current cycle. FWIW I was well into my thirties when I made the switch from industry to the City.

If it's possible i.e timewise/financially to scale up your personal trading while continuing your career (which sounds reasonably flexible?) then that may be a good step. To be entirely honest there is such a good flow of fresh graduates/recruits into the City that your realistic chances of a junior role are slim. That's being honest - I hope however you manage to find something. and prove me wrong.

Reading t2w and other sites should give you the awareness that many people make a full time career of trading for themselves - both in equities and in the futures markets. If you've perhaps 'missed the boat' for a conventional City career then there are plenty of other ways to approach things - many people employed in the City eventually want to work for themselves anyhow - if you can build up experience, skills and equity on your own you may be cutting out a stage.

Anyhow, good luck and 2007 is a fresh start so go for it.

"It's clear to me that my "first love" is the markets and I really want to work in them, preferably as an equity investor / fund manager / analyst." ...just looking at the "and"...if it is not too personal why did the first part of your statement lead to the second part ? I'm trying to say that if the first part of your statement is the motivator for "what comes next" what other factors have you not mentioned that lead to you constraining yourself to the roles mentioned.

I'm trying to help here. I've made quiet a few jumps 'of faith' over the years and I found it helpful to question myself as to the why's before I actually took the action of making the move a reality.

Trading for myself is something I have seriously considered. The reason I hesitate to take this leap is that I don't feel I have yet found an edge that I could leverage properly. Instinctively I tend go for a fairly simple approach to trading - S&R/MA's/volume with a macro overview. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but I find when I'm disciplined I tend to end up a little ahead. However I fear that if I scaled up such an approach I could find myself out of my depth, there are a million smarter players than me out there. Also I could only commit c.20k which would probably leave me undercapitalised.

I didn't think I was constraining myself by focusing on the roles mentioned, I guess I just think my background gives me more of a chance in these areas. I have no detailed knowledge or experience of options / bonds / commodities however I have had a longtime interest in equities and futures and have wide experience in a number of industries in many parts of the globe. This leads me to think that a role in a longer term / fundamental analysis environment is maybe more appropriate.

Cheers for your responses,

NT

For what its worth when i started working for a comapny as a trader i joined with 3 other "trainees", i was 23 but the other 3 guys were all in their 30's and only one of them had trading experience. Although my company seems to have changed to taking on younger trainees now it goes to show that there are plenty of people in the ciy that give you a chance regardless of age.
From my personal experience guys in their early 30's make the best traders, good balance of enthusiasm and experience, provided you dont think you "know it all" just because you've had career success elsewhere, which is what a few guys i have seen come and go tended to think. You seem humble so im sure you'll do fine

Firstly if you are a trader looking for a start, looking for a company to give you the backing to prove yourself you have only one avenue and that is to apply to a Prop house.
Some may insist you go through a trainee trader program but if you can show a grasp of the fundamentals and have a clear idea of what you want to trade and how you would trade, i.e. scalper, directional, day trading ,spread trading then you should be able to put a good case before one of these companies who are always looking for new blood.
You would probably have to start on a simulator environment before a slow ratchet onto the live markets starting in 1 lots, 5 lots and slowly as the company gains confidence in your ability and discipline your risk limits will be increased.
Age is immaterial to a prop house because you will usually not be an employee, technically you will be self employed. Use the list provided by Trade2Win and give the arcades a call of e-mail them, I am sure you will get some joy.

Sometimes on T2W you come across a thread that mirrors your own life. Nordtrader, I am 32 and also looking for a switch such as yourself. However I do think, and as others have mentioned, there is a talented supply of new blood direct to the City from LBS, LSE, Oxbridge, you name it.
I plan to take a Master`s or an MBA for 1 yr. This will be an investment. If you live in London, you only have to pay tuition fees. If you have a business/financial background then try LSE/LBS for their finance master`s programmes. LSE masters graduates make good analysts, according to a few people.
To all others posting on this thread : do you guys know anything about Cass Business School ? Seems like they have a good finance department.

Good luck, Nordtrader.

combotrader said:

. . . do you guys know anything about Cass Business School ? Seems like they have a good finance department.
. . .

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Went to an open evening for Imperial's MAsters Of Finance/Mathematical Finance a few years ago and staff I spoke to afterwards were very, very disparaging about Cass.

A Dashing Blade said:

Went to an open evening for Imperial's MAsters Of Finance/Mathematical Finance a few years ago and staff I spoke to afterwards were very, very disparaging about Cass.

Click to expand...

Thanks DB.
I know 2 people who got jobs at BarCap and Lehmans in risk management after doing the maths trading masters course at cass. Competition between these schools is also high. Cass` new dean, Richard Gillingwater is a City heavyweight.

I have no personal knowledge of the place, only the people I spoke of but realsied I need different opinions. Do you think Cass might have changed ? IYO whats IMperial like ?
Thanks
CT.

This woul have been prolly 5 yesrs ago iirc so quite possible that things have changed

if your good enough you'll get employed... i have worked as a head hunter/consultant in the city recruiting for some very high profile jobs both within the IT and Financials sector everything gets noticed, it either gets very quickly discarded or further investigated, the decision is made very quickly by the recruiter..if you think you have what it takes and can demonstrate this on paper someone should take a look at you regardless of age,

get your credentials down on paper, simply your P&L should take care of that regardless of account size, after all this business is scalable. everything else will take care of itself, whether you get hired or not......