Trading and meditation

When I read about 'star' traders, there seems to be a high number who say that meditation, or some form of visualisation exercise, have helped in their trading success.

Does anyone here meditate ?

Regards,

Ivor

Aum, no.

kidding.

Yes. I aim to meditate twice a day, and usually do. Just a case of getting up earlier and fixing your intent on making the time.

I also use a number of purposeful visualisation techniques. Not just for trading.

I find the best time to meditate is on the Toilet.

TheBramble said:

kidding.

Yes. I aim to meditate twice a day, and usually do. Just a case of getting up earlier and fixing your intent on making the time.

Click to expand...

Yes. I guess it's important to have the discipline to make the time.

In case anyone's interested, here's an interesting site about meditation.

www.meditations-uk.com

Regards,

Ivor

Hi
good subject ivor.......I dabble at it ...which is the wrong thing to do, as Tony says it is a case of making the time & like anything , making it part of you daily routine.

even dabbling at it has benefitted me no end. I am looking for some type of class to join to put my focus onto it a little more

at the and of the day the 'inner self ' or 'spirit' (call it what you want) just wants peace, instead of wanting to be 'right' all the time..which is the Ego at work.......this benefits in many area's , not just Trading

Jay

p.s ivor ......just looked at that site.....I bought one of those meditation machines years ago( still never use it regularly tho I am ashamed to say! )..........but just to let you or anybody know they do work, for me anyway, I find it very good ......totally clears your mind , which can be a strange thing ...

Finlayson said:

p.s ivor ......just looked at that site.....I bought one of those meditation machines years ago( still never use it regularly tho I am ashamed to say! )..........but just to let you or anybody know they do work, for me anyway, I find it very good ......totally clears your mind , which can be a strange thing ...

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Hi Jay,

I bought one a little while ago and I think it's brilliant. I've tried to meditate before, but not got anywhere with it. But now I find I can relax and meditate really easily.

I also bought the Biofeedback game from the same site which is amazing. (My kids love it too).

Regards,

Ivor

TheBramble said:

kidding.

Yes. I aim to meditate twice a day, and usually do.

I also use a number of purposeful visualisation techniques. Not just for trading.

Click to expand...

Hi Bramble,

I've started meditating regularly using one of those Meditation Machines. But what I want to know now is how to gear my meditation sessions for trading. What kind of 'purposeful visualisation techniques' do you use ?

Regards,

Ivor

Hi Ivor

pleased you are seeing the benefits of this....also thanks for bringing this up....puts focus on the fact I should be making more time for this

Jay

ivorm said:

Hi Bramble,

I've started meditating regularly using one of those Meditation Machines. But what I want to know now is how to gear my meditation sessions for trading.

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You don't. Meditating is meditating. It's not 'geared' to anything. That's the whole point!

Machines? Classes? You don't need them. They're an intrusion and a distraction and take you int he opposite direction you want to be going. Caveat: if you're going to go down a structured med technique such aTM (tm) you may well find an instructor handy (vital?). But once you're initiated - you're on your own.

ivorm said:

What kind of 'purposeful visualisation techniques' do you use ?

Click to expand...

Well, I'll give you an example: You're about to discuss a deal with someone. You're buying or selling something. What's the best possible outcome you could ever expect from that discussion/meeting? Run it through a few times using ALL the modalities: Sight, sound, smell, internal talk, external auditory, external sense, internal sense - etc etc etc.

Try it today. Pick one thing you know you're going to do later on. Doesn't have to be a major life event. Decide how you want it to turn out. 'Dry run' it a few times in your head using all the senses.

Let me know if it made any difference to (a) the event itself and (b) the time leading up to the event.

A lot of you are using your imagination at this point because it's Friday, it's sunny and warm and so forth - and why not. Everything is valid if it makes it more enjoyable. And there's no reason why you shouldn't enhance even the tiniest parts of your daily routine. In fact, your daily routine is precisely those things you should be looking to get the max juice out of anyway - seeing as how they are routine and you do them a lot. Wouldn't you say?

This is the Rev. Bramble, Prophet of Profits, signing off from the Trading Pulpit.

Hi Bramble,

Thanks for your reply.

Are you saying in connection with trading, then, that during a meditation session, you should focus on positive outcomes for your trades and try to use all your senses trying to imagine those positive outcomes actually happening ?

TheBramble said:

Machines? Classes? You don't need them. etc..

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I can't say I agree with you about that. I tried to meditate for years using all sorts of techniques and never felt I was getting anywhere.

The first time I used a Meditation Machine I could feel myself automatically mentally and physically relaxing. The twent minutes session went in a flash and I felt much more serene and yet somehow more alive afterwards. I think they really work.

Thanks again for your help with the visualisation stuff.

Regards,

Ivor

Rev TheBramble,

I accept that pre-running scenarios can help an outcome, ( you seem to be using NLP language ), but they work only when you can influence an outcome. In a sales/buying environment, the modalities can help you subconsciously put across a mindset. If you start to perceive a positive outcome, you are more likely to make it real, by being able to influence it. ( in effect, creating your own (positive) reality )

But I disagree that this can work with the markets. You cannot sweet-talk them into changing their minds.

Meditation can help you to stop over-analysing, or stop being twitchy, but you cannot alter the outcome.
Meditation can help you "accept" the outcome ( your perception/response to it ), but not alter it. ( change reality )

Once you get to that stage of enlightenment, zen it gets easy.

ivorm said:

Hi Bramble,

Are you saying in connection with trading, then, that during a meditation session, you should focus on positive outcomes for your trades and try to use all your senses trying to imagine those positive outcomes actually happening ?

Click to expand...

No. I'm saying when you're meditating - you meditate - on nothing. Purposeful visualisation is something quite different. Purposeful Visualisation is a conscious act maintained during intermittent periods of consciousness we call wakefulness. I say intermittent because like it or not, every 90 minutes or so, you have no choice.

Meditating is the conscious intent to move out of consciousness and back into reality where the realisation of unconsciousness is the signal you've moved back into conscious awareness again. Unselfconsciousness is only ever the memory of not being consciously aware. It's that which indicates a meditative state was achieved. You never actually experience it while it's (not) happening.

ivorm said:

I can't say I agree with you about that. I tried to meditate for years using all sorts of techniques and never felt I was getting anywhere.

The first time I used a Meditation Machine I could feel myself automatically mentally and physically relaxing. The twent minutes session went in a flash and I felt much more serene and yet somehow more alive afterwards. I think they really work.

Click to expand...

Good stuff. I'm glad it relaxed you. But it's not meditation. It's relaxing. And hey, anything that works is just fine by me. Relaxing is good. Just don't get hung up on words. I've been practising meditation for many years and I didn't feel I was getting anywhere either for the first 150 or 160 years.

trendie said:

Rev TheBramble,

I accept that pre-running scenarios can help an outcome, ( you seem to be using NLP language ), but they work only when you can influence an outcome. In a sales/buying environment, the modalities can help you subconsciously put across a mindset. If you start to perceive a positive outcome, you are more likely to make it real, by being able to influence it. ( in effect, creating your own (positive) reality )

Click to expand...

Missed the point mate. I'm not suggesting you influence anything - except yourself - or rather - your perceptions.

trendie said:

But I disagree that this can work with the markets. You cannot sweet-talk them into changing their minds.

Click to expand...

Too true. But as I mention above - that wasn't where I was coming from.

trendie said:

Meditation can help you to stop over-analysing, or stop being twitchy, but you cannot alter the outcome.
Meditation can help you "accept" the outcome ( your perception/response to it ), but not alter it. ( change reality )

Once you get to that stage of enlightenment, zen it gets easy.

Click to expand...

The thing is, meditation isn't anything unless it is useful to you personally. Loads of people I thought would really benefit from it - simply don't. And the the most unlikely, find it an absolute necessity. (I do!).

It in of itself doesn't do anything. What is does is allow you to blossom to your full extent in any endeavour you choose. Your full extent in any endeavour may be pure crap, but it';s a lot better than you could have been without being centred.

It's not JUST about trading - It's about everything.


Guru Dev Bramble - Custodian of Kwaan - Lord of Lucidity

ivorm said:

The first time I used a Meditation Machine I could feel myself automatically mentally and physically relaxing. The twent minutes session went in a flash and I felt much more serene and yet somehow more alive afterwards. I think they really work.

Click to expand...

are you talking about the LifeTools Mind Machines stuff?

Arbitrageur said:

are you talking about the LifeTools Mind Machines stuff?

Click to expand...

excellent! thanks for that.
years and years ago I dabbled with a gadget that induced lucid-dreaming.
( and also the early binaural music tapes )
this thread reminded me of that, but couldnt remember the name of the company, until your post.

trendie said:

excellent! thanks for that.
years and years ago I dabbled with a gadget that induced lucid-dreaming.
......

Click to expand...

was it called playboy, escort, or razzle?

Wats to be learnt ?

TheBramble said:

Missed the point mate. I'm not suggesting you influence anything - except yourself - or rather - your perceptions.

Too true. But as I mention above - that wasn't where I was coming from.

The thing is, meditation isn't anything unless it is useful to you personally. Loads of people I thought would really benefit from it - simply don't. And the the most unlikely, find it an absolute necessity. (I do!).

It in of itself doesn't do anything. What is does is allow you to blossom to your full extent in any endeavour you choose. Your full extent in any endeavour may be pure crap, but it';s a lot better than you could have been without being centred.

It's not JUST about trading - It's about everything.


Guru Dev Bramble - Custodian of Kwaan - Lord of Lucidity

Click to expand...

Hi Bramble

I think many on this thread are missing the point. They are still searching for the Holy Grail. This time meditation, NLP and or visualisation.

You have given them some pointers but so many talk about "machines", just as they talk about "black box trading systems" or "indicators".

There are no quick answers to using these psychological/natural techniques, just as there are no quick answers to trading. As you pointed out mediation is internal focus. It is not focus on a thing, but focus on nothing. This is quite different to no focus.

In addition there is the more conscious focus or visualisation on events that you wish to CREATE (deliberate emphasis).

Focus and the release of energy are some of the topics I am exploring on another thread as well. All these things are interconnected. Cause and effect are a natural revelation of this inter-connectivity, but the relationship between them is often not clear. They are also closely aligned to creativity and intuition, which are also subjects I would like to explore later.

Visualisation is one tool that achieves this.

As someone who has spent some time going around the wats (temples) in Thailand I have looked at this area, as I am sure you will have done, Bramble, by living where you do.

This is a most interesting thread, but its readers will need to delve deeper than so-called "meditation machines" if they wish to explore the implications and techniques properly

Charlton

trendie said:

years and years ago I dabbled with a gadget that induced lucid-dreaming.
( and also the early binaural music tapes )
this thread reminded me of that, but couldnt remember the name of the company, until your post.

Click to expand...

lol, no worries. I've got one of their mind state inducing brain machines tucked away in my drawer. Havent used it in a while but it certainly produces interesting effects, when it doesnt make me fall asleep.

I was always tempted by their lucid dream machines but never got round to ordering one... any good?