Possibilities

Hello,

Does anyone know of any companies that are currently recruiting fully backed futures traders in the london area?..I have been doing simulator spread trading on euribor for the past 3 months but want to have a crack at outright contracts as I feel I am more suited to this style of trading...I have been to Macfutures to no avail...maybe someone knows of independant traders that are recruiting within an organisation...I'd preferably like to look at Bund/Bobl

The obvious are London Capital Group but of course there is the seat rental - 18 grand a year

I think that if you have only been doing spreads for 3 months you may be disappointed as the markets have been very quiet since April. All spread traders have had a tough time of it. I have found myself doing far more outrights than I have in the past and taking position trades in lots of different markets as a result. When things get back to normal the spread trading will take off again and you will feel no need to do outrights. Bund/Bobl is a spread trade anyway so that bit doesn't make sense. I do not think you will find somebody to back you to do exposed outright trading as risk/reward far worse than for spreads.

twalker said:

I think that if you have only been doing spreads for 3 months you may be disappointed as the markets have been very quiet since April. All spread traders have had a tough time of it. I have found myself doing far more outrights than I have in the past and taking position trades in lots of different markets as a result. When things get back to normal the spread trading will take off again and you will feel no need to do outrights. Bund/Bobl is a spread trade anyway so that bit doesn't make sense. I do not think you will find somebody to back you to do exposed outright trading as risk/reward far worse than for spreads.

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thanks for both replies,

I understand that risk is minimised on spreads..but have been trading in the month's thats have been quiet ie may june july, but have found that I am reading the market correctly and am not getting filled or being patialled on what would be winning trades in an outright contract. When I said bund/bobl that was stated as an either or and not as a intermarket cross spread.

Macfutures is the only place that I understand encourage outright trading on a fully backed basis..due to Refco owning them and therefore a bottomless pit of trade margin and capital.

I am going along to london capital this week..it is only a small office but supposidly they have a good name in the market and could be an excellent opportunity to progress in this field...

robertola said:

supposidly they have a good name in the market and could be an excellent opportunity to progress in this field...

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??!

alpha_monkey said:

??!

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excuse me? was that a ...who are they?

Good luck in the outrights. If you do go down the outright route just better keep clip size very small to begin with and maintain a very disciplined approach mapped out before you start.

I guarantee you that Buy/Hold is a very different thing to spreads when you actually get involved. Far more demanding than just realising you called the trend right. I spent most of my trading career doing outrights for a few very highly capitalised businesses. Despite this, with my own money I will take spreads over outrights all the time. If the market is liquid there is a much better risk/reward from the spreads and none of those drawdowns that are inherent in outright trading.
I can imagine anybody who has recently come into this business may be getting a little frustrated if they have been told to trade spreads, you just need to give it a little time.

robertola,

tell me more about LCG, how did you find that het had a good name, i am thinking about applying to them....

i would like any advice....

j

I am not ruling out the possibility of trading spreads....

I enjoy trading spreads, I mainly focused on euribor stirs...and developed a good trading technique on march june 05.....march sept 05...in which our starting clip size was 50 lots in the spread matrix and 10 lots on legging. My trading was closely correlated to the t-note and bund outright contracts. Obviouisly focusing also on fundamentals and technical analysis for key levels etc. I found Euribor good as a tick is worth 25 euro's as opposed to bund being 10 euro's therfore the 1/2 tick across 50 lots being a profitable trade for starting trader..the other plus point being.....that you could literally see the market going against u...and it was easy to scratch a trade at no loss...and then get back in at a decent level,,,if i were trading bund that option is not there..could quite easily be looking a a sizeable loss....but i found that the majority of the time it took the bund to move 7-10 ticks before i could get a fill on a 1/2 tick profit on spreads...i'm not saying i wont trade them but ..i dont want to be blinkered on products that are out there...i think knowledge on as many markets as possible is a huge plus point.


london capital i have recently heard about...and most experienced people said that its a decent place..honest and fair. there is an expensive desk fee..but we are all locals in effect and this is part and parcel of this industry. They are free and open to new styles of trading...they have some extremely profitable traders on spreads and euribor outrights...and this interests me greatly because u can pick up some extremely helpful tips...rather than learning from a trainer who has either failed in trading for himself...or has never executed a trade in his life.

cheers robertla,

Is the desk fee similar across all prop firms in the city of london..... and do they start charging as soon as you start or after training...

when did you start trading, i'm fresh out of school so i only been trading equities of my own account and managed to surprise myself with the profits...

is it beneficial to now look at other instruments, particularly those I might trade if I get a job etc....

any sites I can visit, online trading games etc.....

cheers for any info.....j

javster said:

cheers robertla,

Is the desk fee similar across all prop firms in the city of london..... and do they start charging as soon as you start or after training...

when did you start trading, i'm fresh out of school so i only been trading equities of my own account and managed to surprise myself with the profits...

is it beneficial to now look at other instruments, particularly those I might trade if I get a job etc....

any sites I can visit, online trading games etc.....

cheers for any info.....j

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as far as i know the desk fees are similar from place to place varying from 1500 - 1800 a month depending on what company u use. I fyou wanted a bloomberg for extra analysis etc it would be more expensive...these are tools that are a must for any trader so it just has to be paid. tt trader is most used..and a charting package is a must too wether it be cqg or futuresource..i'd recommend cqg..due to market profile..which is very informative on market direction.

i have only been focusing on fuitures for 6 months..but have been doing a lot of research etc..
there are lots of courses that can be helpful..and it always looks good to organisations that u come prepared and maybe have a head-start on other graduates.

lots of companiers take on say 25 trainees wioth a view to to having 5-10 new traders...if you are not successful it doesnt mean u are a crappy trader..just means u dont fit that companies style.

at the end of the day youre p and l doesnt lie accross the course of time, as opposed to equities which i am experieced in too futures are much more geared and therefore profits and losses can be extreme.

persistance is the key i'd say...i am by no means experienced in this industry..but i know its the career i'm going to do...wether it be today tommorrow...next week or next year.

if you dont mind me asking, how old are you? Is there an upper limit to the industry, i completed MEng n MSc so am entering the area a bit later than I expected.... I am 23!

where do I start learning on how to trade in futures as I am interested in this area....

cheers for the advice, j

well i am 26, so u are a damn site younger than me.

most companies take on graduates so u should be fine there...just apply to loads of firms and they will take u on to do simulator based trading....its one of them jobs that is best to do on-the-job training.

i personally dont have a degree....but hopefully my ambition and keeness is enough to be taken on.

there is not an age limit on traders...some ex liffe floor traders are learning screen based trading now and they are in there 30's and 40's so there is no immediate rush...but reading books is a good start i guess...but each individual will find there own way....risk reward is what most firms look at now...due to the extortinate amount of commission they charge especially on spreads..they would prefer to take somebody with a low risk profile....and earn money on rebates that are recieved with the exchange

cheers mate,

Apart form the classic Hull, you got any recommendations on learning futures trading???

javster said:

cheers mate,

Apart form the classic Hull, you got any recommendations on learning futures trading???

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classic hull?

robertola said:

classic hull?

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thats what i am useto, as I studied FinMath....so any good books you can recommend

not really....as books show other peoples perspective...and compterised futures trading is relatively new..i'd look on liffe's website..got interewting stuff on there...and also eurex...and basically keep up to date with economic conditions...in the us uk and germany...look at the bond markets exchange rates inflationary levels and major economcis figures ie...Non farm payroll...retail sales....cpi....ppi

cool, im on the case now.....

so when im up2 spped, where do i start to trade (virtual)

javster said:

cool, im on the case now.....

so when im up2 spped, where do i start to trade (virtual)

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u'll have to do the same as everyone else..and apply around for trainee postions

javster said:

thats what i am useto, as I studied FinMath....so any good books you can recommend

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Hull's book will be of almost no use to you whatsoever. It was used on my uni course - great for theory and underlying principles, just above zero relevance to trading. Imagine a book trying to teach you how to play golf. Until you do it for yourself, you won't know.

And in reply to my "??!" comment on LCG, they were less than honest with a friend of mine. I spoke to them (in Curvalue guise) about 3-4 years ago. Dodgy outfit. Try elsewhere: Saxon, Atlas, Mac, heard good things about Trading Connections as well.