Anyone find trading isolating?

HaloTrader · May 19, 2009

Hello

I've dedicated the last 6 months of my life, entirely to trading. I've done literally nothing but talk about trading, backtest, demo, live trade, read about trading, research trading, watch bloomsberg, analysis charts, research brokerage accounts, watch trading films, read trading magazines, dip into forums and trade, trade, trade, search for hours on the internet, understand indicators, learn price action, do tech. analysis, analysis volume to call the bear/bull market, research historical data of the major indices, buy and learn to use 5 charting softwares, research automated trading, make automated robots, backtest them, demo them, live them, learnt MetaTrader programming, learnt Igindex backtesting, learnt NinjaTrader programming, learnt about futures - ETFS - Cash markets spreadbetting futuresbettings, binary bets, read tons about options to not do anything with them, write business plans, make money to trade with, write out tons of strategies, originally findings others strategies, wrote out my 'action plan' for the day, the week, the month, the year, wrote out my journal, printed of all my analysis ....

I've dedicated everything to trading. I have risked my a-levels and chance of getting into university, i've spent 12 hours + per day on it. I stay awake until 2-4am most nights refining my ideas and improving and improving and improving and spend the whole day watching and watching and watching.

It is only now that i look back and see everything i have done, that i realise how isolating and lonely the whole experience of learning to trade was. I finally have my plan that i am not going to change so i don't need to spend as many hours and time and effort into trading.

I've chosen not to go out time and time again because i've been too pre-occupied with trading to do anything, it has just filled my mind from when i wake to when i sleep and it was all i could think about. I have been like a depressed person, hiding in their room, hiding from the world - except i have had an obsession with trading instead.

Everything has taken a backfoot - The gym, my mates, hobbies, family, girlfriend, holidays, passing my driving test, i haven't been drinking to avoid the next day being hungover and not being able to perform.

I've totally locked myself away from everything to fully concentrate on all my goals... And now that i have reached them, i feel like i myself have missed out on what i should have been doing, what i feel i've done is tried to choose the life i want, be able to live without a boss and have the earnings i want young. Now that i've achieved it, it all feels pointless and like i've made my life 'unusual and different' - Everyone has to go university and now i'm only going for the hell of it, i won't need a job, all these things - I thought it would be great...

Trading is very isolating and the amount of dedication it takes really has changed me, my lifestyle has totally changed, i use to be very active and going to the gym all the time and out and ...

Anyone else feel trading is an isolating sport, lonely because its a sole mission for profits - You don't work for a business, its just you and your ideas... I'm starting to think maybe a job wouldn't have been so bad after all...

Sorry for rant, needed to get out how i feel. No-one understands what i'm doing and all this hard work goes un-noticed, not that it should but... I hope one day this will all have been worth it. I think i am having an identity-crisis lol

x Laugh all u like ^^

NetTecture · May 19, 2009

Well, that is not trading. What you did was research, learning, commitment. You can add any profession here. Try IT consulting - stuck with a group of males, most not too competent in their job, and runnnin 12 hour+ shifts during crunch time. Try studying certain jobs and your personal life may not be lonely in that you see others, but the first years as doctor are not particularly nice either. ry studying law and getting out with a great degree

That is HOURS over books.

You have to see that, though, this is ENDING. Get someting that works, develop an edge, and then you have only market time to spend. Like in any other office job. You can join some online trading rooms just to hang out during the day, do some computer games on the side (for example if you work on hourly charts). Then pack up pretty early and be done for the day

Not too much overtime. When you work with Ninja and automate you can even do a LOT, just keep the strategies open on a second screen.

Maybe you just dont have what it takes? Not meaning this derogatory. But if you can not handle that....
...then change it. Get a job, or move out of loneliness. Trading arcades may be a way, where you are together with other traders. Get it from an office

Getting good in anything requires passion. Problem with trading is that there are not many mediocre ones for long term. They tend to get bankrupt

Dinos · May 19, 2009

HaloTrader said:
Hello

I've dedicated the last 6 months of my life, entirely to trading. I've done literally nothing but talk about trading, backtest, demo, live trade, read about trading, research trading, watch bloomsberg, analysis charts, research brokerage accounts, watch trading films, read trading magazines, dip into forums and trade, trade, trade, search for hours on the internet, understand indicators, learn price action, do tech. analysis, analysis volume to call the bear/bull market, research historical data of the major indices, buy and learn to use 5 charting softwares, research automated trading, make automated robots, backtest them, demo them, live them, learnt MetaTrader programming, learnt Igindex backtesting, learnt NinjaTrader programming, learnt about futures - ETFS - Cash markets spreadbetting futuresbettings, binary bets, read tons about options to not do anything with them, write business plans, make money to trade with, write out tons of strategies, originally findings others strategies, wrote out my 'action plan' for the day, the week, the month, the year, wrote out my journal, printed of all my analysis ....

I've dedicated everything to trading. I have risked my a-levels and chance of getting into university, i've spent 12 hours + per day on it. I stay awake until 2-4am most nights refining my ideas and improving and improving and improving and spend the whole day watching and watching and watching.

It is only now that i look back and see everything i have done, that i realise how isolating and lonely the whole experience of learning to trade was. I finally have my plan that i am not going to change so i don't need to spend as many hours and time and effort into trading.

I've chosen not to go out time and time again because i've been too pre-occupied with trading to do anything, it has just filled my mind from when i wake to when i sleep and it was all i could think about. I have been like a depressed person, hiding in their room, hiding from the world - except i have had an obsession with trading instead.

Everything has taken a backfoot - The gym, my mates, hobbies, family, girlfriend, holidays, passing my driving test, i haven't been drinking to avoid the next day being hungover and not being able to perform.

I've totally locked myself away from everything to fully concentrate on all my goals... And now that i have reached them, i feel like i myself have missed out on what i should have been doing, what i feel i've done is tried to choose the life i want, be able to live without a boss and have the earnings i want young. Now that i've achieved it, it all feels pointless and like i've made my life 'unusual and different' - Everyone has to go university and now i'm only going for the hell of it, i won't need a job, all these things - I thought it would be great...

Trading is very isolating and the amount of dedication it takes really has changed me, my lifestyle has totally changed, i use to be very active and going to the gym all the time and out and ...

Anyone else feel trading is an isolating sport, lonely because its a sole mission for profits - You don't work for a business, its just you and your ideas... I'm starting to think maybe a job wouldn't have been so bad after all...

Sorry for rant, needed to get out how i feel. No-one understands what i'm doing and all this hard work goes un-noticed, not that it should but... I hope one day this will all have been worth it. I think i am having an identity-crisis lol

x Laugh all u like ^^

If you work at home, it is isolated, but if you have done your homework right, you should reap the rewards, I've being a f/t trader now for nearly 15 years, and I use the f/t lightly, part of my businessplan was to work as little as possible for the greatest rewards, it takes time, so although you feel you may have missed out on certain things, if you have this right, you should be able to restrict the hours you work, maximise your profit, restrict your losses and when your mates are busy working, you should have plenty of spare time. In the begining, you need (as you appear to have done), dedicated yourself to developing your business, when the rewards start to come through consistantly, then yo may be in a position to chill out, work less and play more, so to speak.

HaloTrader · May 19, 2009

NetTecture said:
Well, that is not trading. What you did was research, learning, commitment. You can add any profession here. Try IT consulting - stuck with a group of males, most not too competent in their job, and runnnin 12 hour+ shifts during crunch time. Try studying certain jobs and your personal life may not be lonely in that you see others, but the first years as doctor are not particularly nice either. ry studying law and getting out with a great degree That is HOURS over books.

You have to see that, though, this is ENDING. Get someting that works, develop an edge, and then you have only market time to spend. Like in any other office job. You can join some online trading rooms just to hang out during the day, do some computer games on the side (for example if you work on hourly charts). Then pack up pretty early and be done for the day Not too much overtime. When you work with Ninja and automate you can even do a LOT, just keep the strategies open on a second screen.

Maybe you just dont have what it takes? Not meaning this derogatory. But if you can not handle that....
...then change it. Get a job, or move out of loneliness. Trading arcades may be a way, where you are together with other traders. Get it from an office

Getting good in anything requires passion. Problem with trading is that there are not many mediocre ones for long term. They tend to get bankrupt

I'm over the learning and research stage. I am now live and have been for a while and its going very well. I just mean retrospectively how difficult it has been. This is the first time i have thought about it, at the time i never complained it was just what i was doing at the time. Looking back, its been bloody hard. Now i spend a few hours a day checking charts and i am making good money, more than my target. So i feel i should be happier than i am!

shadowninja · May 19, 2009

You have to do what you have to do in order to be successful. It takes hard work and commitment and, who knows, you might need to keep at it for another 12 months before you've truly become a profitable trader. Only time will tell.

That said, risking your education is a problem. The quickest way of building a trading account is via a highly paid job; most highly paid jobs are given to those who have qualifications.

And before anyone goes off on one about qualifications aren't everything, please read what I wrote properly. You'll save my time and your time.

There is another caveat... since you've pretty much given up your life to trade, how do you know you're not simply addicted to gambling? Some of what you've written are key indicators of an addiction.

HaloTrader · May 19, 2009

Dinos said:
If you work at home, it is isolated, but if you have done your homework right, you should reap the rewards, I've being a f/t trader now for nearly 15 years, and I use the f/t lightly, part of my businessplan was to work as little as possible for the greatest rewards, it takes time, so although you feel you may have missed out on certain things, if you have this right, you should be able to restrict the hours you work, maximise your profit, restrict your losses and when your mates are busy working, you should have plenty of spare time. In the begining, you need (as you appear to have done), dedicated yourself to developing your business, when the rewards start to come through consistantly, then yo may be in a position to chill out, work less and play more, so to speak.

What made you decide to dedicate yourself to trading?

dr.blix · May 19, 2009

bloody hell halo, sounds like you've done a great job at educating yourself, and hopefully, given yourself a set of skills that you will now have...for life.

i totally hear where you're coming from though. when i was your age, i was into dance music programming. well, actually, i was completely obsessed by it. everything was secondary, full stop. i ended up being a record producer, but the weird thing was, after i achieved a few small goals, i completely lost the obsessive drive that powered me there.

it's very common with people who do well in any field. it's a motivating factor that makes you do what other people wouldn't do...i.e. educate, work, educate, work ad nauseam.

an unusual and different life (not taken to any extremes of course) is a good thing IMO.

if you feel you've reached a certain educated level, then now you can factor in the things you feel you've missed out on.

you're in a good position halo. just get your life/trading mix a little more balanced.

c_c405 · May 19, 2009

Sounds like someone I knew

That someone was me years ago - Until I learned better ways

All that time you spent was good - Now put it into action - It wasn't time wasted but if you don't do something with your new found education that you dedicated so much time to it will be a waste. You are probably starting off better than most with all the mumbo jumbo in your head from reading about it. Doctors, Lawyers and heck even plumbers pour over books for hours and years!

Take 15 - 20 minutes at each market open (London - New York - Tokyo) and make your trades accordingly

Watching a minute chart won't reveal a better opportunity to you so you may as well make a trade allocating the pips to a loss and kiss them good bye - Then go out to live! Come back take a quick 15 minute look to see how badly you have done and make another trade accordingly

This is a condition of almost everyone who is new to trading and wants to learn how to win and never lose - Forget it! you WILL lose and the sooner you accept that the better off you will be and the better you will live

Trade to live and don't live to trade grow a set of balls and jump in the fire - maybe use some of that education to make good trades. There is never going to be a 100% trading strategy so live with it and start trading - Forget back testing and forget looking in the past. It matters not what happened last week only what may happen tomorrow! Got it?

Invest based on the principle you have learned about for the last 6 months - Then go to school and forget about your trades until you come home

Dinos · May 19, 2009

HaloTrader said:
What made you decide to dedicate yourself to trading?

I have being a trader for the last 20 years years albiet 10 of those part time, I did own my own company for 10 years, but I was approached with a view to sell and eventually got an offer I couldn't refuse, so , sold out for a nice profit to follow my dreams so to speak. Best decision of my life.

dr.blix · May 19, 2009

shadowninja said:
There is another caveat... since you've pretty much given up your life to trade, how do you know you're not simply addicted to gambling? Some of what you've written are key indicators of an addiction.

i think you're exactly right ninja, apart from the above.

if halo had written how he just pawned his grans jewellery to make another bad call on igindex, then i'd say, yes...addicted to gambling.

but to mention to someone, who has just written about how they're questioning if they've spent their time being too involved in educating themselves to a high standard, that they may have a specific gambling addiction is a little insulting.

maybe you mean signs of an 'addictive personality'?

which can be a good or bad thing, depending on circumstance.

dr.blix · May 19, 2009

also, 6 months in the scheme of things is not too bad.

i understand time is relative, so you may feel, being young, that this is a big chunk of your life.

as you get older you may realise (when sipping cocktails on your yacht) that it was time well spent

theSheik · May 19, 2009

OCD

see the doc and get it sorted

shadowninja · May 19, 2009

dr.blix said:
i think you're exactly right ninja, apart from the above.

if halo had written how he just pawned his grans jewellery to make another bad call on igindex, then i'd say, yes...addicted to gambling.

but to mention to someone, who has just written about how they're questioning if they've spent their time being too involved in educating themselves to a high standard, that they may have a specific gambling addiction is a little insulting.

maybe you mean signs of an 'addictive personality'?

which can be a good or bad thing, depending on circumstance.

Why should it be insulting? It could be an issue. If he's living, breathing and talking about one particular thing all the time at the cost of everything else, that's an addiction. See?

dr.blix · May 19, 2009

shadowninja said:
Why should it be insulting? It could be an issue. If he's living, breathing and talking about one particular thing all the time at the cost of everything else, that's an addiction. See?

sorry ninja, don't see at all.

i see a world of difference actually, in someone who may have a slightly addictive personality that uses this to drive them to achieve things that other people can't...and some @rse bandit who spunks theirs, and anyone elses money on taking pot luck on a bet.

i see a world of difference between someone who goes a bit too deep/overboard with their education/learning and someone who repeatedly goes just goes black or red.

there's a subtle difference, but then, life's ruled by subtleties.

rock on with your bad self halo...take 6 months holiday and you're square for the rest of your life

donaldduke · May 19, 2009

HaloTrader said:
Hello

I've dedicated the last 6 months of my life, entirely to trading. I've done literally nothing but talk about trading, backtest, demo, live trade, read about trading, research trading, watch bloomsberg, analysis charts, research brokerage accounts, watch trading films, read trading magazines, dip into forums and trade, trade, trade, search for hours on the internet, understand indicators, learn price action, do tech. analysis, analysis volume to call the bear/bull market, research historical data of the major indices, buy and learn to use 5 charting softwares, research automated trading, make automated robots, backtest them, demo them, live them, learnt MetaTrader programming, learnt Igindex backtesting, learnt NinjaTrader programming, learnt about futures - ETFS - Cash markets spreadbetting futuresbettings, binary bets, read tons about options to not do anything with them, write business plans, make money to trade with, write out tons of strategies, originally findings others strategies, wrote out my 'action plan' for the day, the week, the month, the year, wrote out my journal, printed of all my analysis ....

I've dedicated everything to trading. I have risked my a-levels and chance of getting into university, i've spent 12 hours + per day on it. I stay awake until 2-4am most nights refining my ideas and improving and improving and improving and spend the whole day watching and watching and watching.

x Laugh all u like ^^

Six months is nothing, maybe if you spend another two or three years working that hard you might become good enough to earn a good living at it.

shadowninja · May 19, 2009

dr.blix said:
sorry ninja, don't see at all.

i see a world of difference actually, in someone who may have a slightly addictive personality that uses this to drive them to achieve things that other people can't...and some @rse bandit who spunks theirs, and anyone elses money on taking pot luck on a bet.

i see a world of difference between someone who goes a bit too deep/overboard with their education/learning and someone who repeatedly goes just goes black or red.

there's a subtle difference, but then, life's ruled by subtleties.

rock on with your bad self halo...take 6 months holiday and you're square for the rest of your life

Exactly. It's subtle.

glyder · May 19, 2009

HaloTrader,
6 months is nothing., as others have said try entering one of the professions, lots of dedication and even more sacrifice is required for years. Sometimes half a lifetime. You have not missed out you have invested in your future. You can still see your mates, get pissed, head off to uni, trade as and when you want to, and take your chosen degree and have plenty of fun.
If you have progressed nicely in your trading, the only downside will be if you choose not to continue trading. If you want to aim for other higher targets cos you feel you've achieved your trading aims then go and do so. The markets will be waitng for you when you want them again.

One caveat...it sounds you've factored in all the right things money management etc, but until you've achieved long term consistency without blowing up, you haven't proved you're not joining the 95% of failed traders....theres still that ongoing challenge for you.

robster970 · May 19, 2009

rikrok said:
One caveat...it sounds you've factored in all the right things money management etc, but until you've achieved long term consistency without blowing up, you haven't proved you're not joining the 95% of failed traders....theres still that ongoing challenge for you.

If you've got tight money management, trade your plan, don't get greedy and take money out of your account, what else can blow you up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Or are you just referring to human nature taking over here?

glyder · May 20, 2009

robster970 said:
If you've got tight money management, trade your plan, don't get greedy and take money out of your account, what else can blow you up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Or are you just referring to human nature taking over here?

Hi Robster - you're right good trading method and good mm should = no blow up.
I was just saying that until thats been done consistently its not proven - human nature or whatever else intervening. Of the 95% of failures I bet many are fairly successful for quite long periods until they make a slip and blow their account.

new_trader · May 20, 2009

donaldduke said:
Six months is nothing, maybe if you spend another two or three years working that hard you might become good enough to earn a good living at it.

Exactly. It is hard to take someone seriously when they say they have dedicated 6 months of their life to this and have finally become profitable. I am not saying that it's impossible to do, maybe if you are a prodigy, but it is just impossible to believe.

Anyone find trading isolating?

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