Deadly company info (legal) - how to sell it?

This is a discussion on Deadly company info (legal) - how to sell it? within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; This is about legally selling information that can affect the value of a stock. 'Public info' that has been overlooked. ...

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Old Jan 8, 2018, 3:01am   #1
 
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Deadly company info (legal) - how to sell it?

This is about legally selling information that can affect the value of a stock.

'Public info' that has been overlooked.

It is interesting because both parties can happily gain, but the deal is obviously difficult to achieve

The value of the info can only be verified by the buyer, when they have it; in which case they already have it.

It's an interesting conundrum.
.

Last edited by Marco_Trader; Jan 8, 2018 at 6:09pm. Reason: Focussing on the question
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 10:37am   #2
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Hi Marco_Trader,
Welcome to T2W.

As debut posts go - yours is an unusual one. I've never been in possession of highly damaging information, let alone tried to sell any. That said, if I was, I imagine that profiting from it would be extremely difficult. The person(s) most likely to pay a high price is the company implicated, so they can either suppress it or try to manage its release. Next up would be the company's largest rival - they may be willing to cough up for some dirt on their competitor. Thereafter, it's only the media who might be willing to pay you - but I imagine the amount you'll get from them will be much less.

Your best bet is to release it to the media for free and to do it in such a way that they can verify your allegations while you remain anonymous. The day before, stick a few £10.00 per point shorts on with a few spread betting companies and cross your fingers. Nothing too big, because if you open an account and your first trade is at £1,000 p/p and the stock price tanks the next day - that will get noticed. If the info' is that bad, you'll have to weigh up the pros and cons: make a little and live, or try and make a lot and risk ending up floating down the Thames.
Tim.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 11:41am   #3
 
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Tim,
Have you ever thought of taking up film/TV script writing? There's quite a few bob to be earned there when you're not trading
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 3:10pm   #4
 
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"...ending up floating down the Thames."
Or in jail for insider trading !
And if extradited to the US end up in a max security federal pen with a 300 year sentence !
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 4:05pm   #5
 
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Marco_Trader started this thread Or in jail for insider trading !

... only that the scenario states that the information is public.
Therefore it would not be insider trading.

Possibly considered unethical, but that's all.

Surely, any analyst is always working to get such info.
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 9:28pm   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco_Trader View Post
Or in jail for insider trading !

... only that the scenario states that the information is public.
Therefore it would not be insider trading.

Possibly considered unethical, but that's all.

Surely, any analyst is always working to get such info.
So have you just got One lot of deadly damaging company information, or will there be One every week?
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 10:23pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco_Trader View Post
This is about legally selling information that can affect the value of a stock.

'Public info' that has been overlooked.

It is interesting because both parties can happily gain, but the deal is obviously difficult to achieve

The value of the info can only be verified by the buyer, when they have it; in which case they already have it.

It's an interesting conundrum.
.
If it is not insider info, but based on public info/ your own research, the best is to short the stock (or but put options and release it trough a PR firm - this is essentially the business model of Citron research and other short sellers and we are yet to see someone floating down river, but I bet this is the wet dream of a lot of CEOs and share holders :-)
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Old Jan 8, 2018, 11:14pm   #8
 
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Marco_Trader started this thread < So have you just got One lot of deadly damaging company information, or will there be One every week? >
----

It was just accidental.
Either way; one each week would be way too much to expect.
Think about pouring over the data, and developing the spreadsheet; and then repeating, but with other calculations.
Then everything must be written up, providing the reader with a quick manual verification with arithmetic and say a web calculator.
Add in the need to create diagrams......

It's a lot of work.
-------

< but I bet this is the wet dream of a lot of CEOs and share holders :-) >
---

You would think so.
But it is not easy to set up.

News distribution is no problem (email).
One doesn't need to be a known person - maths provides the proof.

Ideally one needs to have a close relationship with a wealthy spreadbetter.
Then you could be in the same room, and share the excitement (and the money).

The thing is; the share price can't go up in such a scenario - at least, I can not envisage how traders in the stock could contemplate even a hold.
Therefore, if a zero risk trade ever exists, this must be in that bracket.

So somebody with a big account could do it.

My guess though is that it would be ideal for a propriety trading firm.
They don't answer to anybody, and they could cover all the trading options.

They could turn millions.
But it's finding one, and then doing a deal.

Hmmmmm!

Last edited by Marco_Trader; Jan 8, 2018 at 11:20pm.
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Old Jan 9, 2018, 7:22pm   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco_Trader View Post
< So have you just got One lot of deadly damaging company information, or will there be One every week? >
----

It was just accidental.
Either way; one each week would be way too much to expect.
Think about pouring over the data, and developing the spreadsheet; and then repeating, but with other calculations.
Then everything must be written up, providing the reader with a quick manual verification with arithmetic and say a web calculator.
Add in the need to create diagrams......

It's a lot of work.
-------

< but I bet this is the wet dream of a lot of CEOs and share holders :-) >
---

You would think so.
But it is not easy to set up.

News distribution is no problem (email).
One doesn't need to be a known person - maths provides the proof.

Ideally one needs to have a close relationship with a wealthy spreadbetter.
Then you could be in the same room, and share the excitement (and the money).

The thing is; the share price can't go up in such a scenario - at least, I can not envisage how traders in the stock could contemplate even a hold.
Therefore, if a zero risk trade ever exists, this must be in that bracket.

So somebody with a big account could do it.

My guess though is that it would be ideal for a propriety trading firm.
They don't answer to anybody, and they could cover all the trading options.

They could turn millions.
But it's finding one, and then doing a deal.

Hmmmmm!
You can do it with PUT stock options, if you are 100% sure you can take a loan and turn letís say 100k into millions by yourself alone ...
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Old Jan 10, 2018, 1:01am   #10
 
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You can do it with PUT stock options, if you are 100% sure you can take a loan and turn letís say 100k into millions by yourself alone ...
Yes, I understand.
When you are a general punter; this is an option.

>>>>>>>>>>

Let it be known, that I was there at the beginninging of the online trading revolution.

I was up, and could have got out of the 90's crash.
However, naivetiy sunk my margin (at the end of the siecle debacle).

Worst was that I had a following (I always write well), and was tipped to liquidate (by guys in the know).
Bizarrely, I didn't - don't ask me why.
Let's face it... we are all wank3rs

1st time around... if you've never been through a crash...
It's not hahaha!
It's tears.

All your strategies are meaningless.

So.... before anything else ... if you get crash signals; then liquidate, and go on holiday

>>>>>>>>

After considering that......
What about Timsk & Mr Charts?

No hate; but definitely time for reflection (and changing one's position like a top bloke).

So I've accidentaly discovered shyte practice (that affects everybody - or pretty much, in the sector).

Is your considered outcome, a life jail term, or a death blow?
That being for announcing Shhh itty practice; where excellence has been touted?

Yes.... think about that.
We have contradictory guidelines.

The market should have fair access to information (level playing field).
But what if you discover Shhh itty behaviour?

Ah yes... you are supposed to be very wealthy, and you provide that information 'free of charge'.

Ha.... Ha.... Ha................ !
Excuse me while I tell you to P *** off.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I fully understand why nobody gets this situation.
This is like finding a Matchless 350 in an old guys garage (in perfect nick).

You think that this just doesn't happen.
But it does.
... and when you are 16, you chop up the gobsmacking valuable 350, to gain parts for your crappy 500 AJS Jampot.

I don't own the tee shirt, but I'd like to get one printed (at some point in time).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So.... wake up!

Shhh itty companies do exist.
People do end up floating down the Thames.

The point is that, a position must be taken

Are you wanting to talk about:
  • Shhh itty companies
  • Exposing owners of Shhh itty companies to loss
  • Protecting Shhh itty companies

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Okay.... I get it.
You never considered that by owning shares in a company, you had become owners of that company.

Fine that you are isolated a bit, from day to day transactions; but hey.... you are an owner!

Would you forgive me, if I said that "I got the feeling that you guys hadn't clicked on this fact"?

(a bit of honesty ranks highly here - some leadership is required, to help people accept that 'a position change' is very healthy)


If you own a company that is delivering fraudulant data to its customer base......
Do you want to hold ... (great company)
Dump ... (set of T what S)

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

T2W... yeah sure.
... but people live lives, and we want a set of standards.

British standards are the gold standard throughout the world (check it out - google it - no other standards come remotely close).

The ****e that I am describing, wouldn't even register within any such 'standards tolerance'.

BTW... I'm an engineer, and a part of me dies, when I see such crap.
(foisted upon the unsuspecting public)

It's going to be interesting.
BS is now pretty much global.

I'm going to pose the question to both Local, and British standards orgs...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ha ha ha... and you thought that this was a ten pound spread bet

But, that's for fun (if you are a Brit, then you will enjoy that humour).
Otherwise - anybody thinking that normal rules apply, is imediately forgiven.

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Old Jan 11, 2018, 3:41pm   #11
 
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Marco_Trader started this thread Well, it looks like this is proving to be too difficult to organise.

I'm sure that it could be if you were in the game.

I sent a general outline to a smallish company, but no reply.
I rang again, the next day - I was told that the email had been deleted.

Clearly the problem is that any trades would be guaranteed one sided.
Therefore presumably, there would be a loss of trust.

I'm not going to spend my time trawling for a company.
It is just a case of accepting that this deal is outside of the trading ethics.

I did have a look at Citron Research (nice share).
The difference is that my scenario would be a specific timed raid.
Their method will likely move the market, but it is less aggressive.

There is no point in me sticking a tenner on it, because clearly it is gonna be seen as a bad play.
Therefore it looks like I will simply release the material.

Anyway, it has been an interesting learning process.
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Old Jan 11, 2018, 4:10pm   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco_Trader View Post
Well, it looks like this is proving to be too difficult to organise.

I'm sure that it could be if you were in the game.

I sent a general outline to a smallish company, but no reply.
I rang again, the next day - I was told that the email had been deleted.

Clearly the problem is that any trades would be guaranteed one sided.
Therefore presumably, there would be a loss of trust.

I'm not going to spend my time trawling for a company.
It is just a case of accepting that this deal is outside of the trading ethics.

I did have a look at Citron Research (nice share).
The difference is that my scenario would be a specific timed raid.
Their method will likely move the market, but it is less aggressive.

There is no point in me sticking a tenner on it, because clearly it is gonna be seen as a bad play.
Therefore it looks like I will simply release the material.

Anyway, it has been an interesting learning process.
On T2W? This could be the coup of the century
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Old Jan 12, 2018, 1:05am   #13
 
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On T2W? This could be the coup of the century
Yes, I know... but it's not gonna happen.
You'll have to watch it from the sidelines I'm afraid.

We worked through the concept.

Obviously the thought of a life changing trade, had to be followed.
It's not like I didn't need the money.

I feel that I have fairly stated my point; that if you own a company, then you take the rough with the smooth.

Okay; we must accept that there is a line between owning a company (and being responsible), and owning a company (and not being responsible).

It's a fine line.

I do not have any bad feeling from investigating this line (of business).
Don't forget that I've done a shed load of work on this.
Plus I must put my head above the parapet.

Let's see if any trading houses donate

One thing is clear... I can give London a clean bill of health (in this respect).
... and I'll say that.

Now, I'm just working out the fine detail (donate buttons etc. )
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Old Jan 12, 2018, 2:25am   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco_Trader View Post
Yes, I know... but it's not gonna happen.
You'll have to watch it from the sidelines I'm afraid.

We worked through the concept.

Obviously the thought of a life changing trade, had to be followed.
It's not like I didn't need the money.

I feel that I have fairly stated my point; that if you own a company, then you take the rough with the smooth.

Okay; we must accept that there is a line between owning a company (and being responsible), and owning a company (and not being responsible).

It's a fine line.

I do not have any bad feeling from investigating this line (of business).
Don't forget that I've done a shed load of work on this.
Plus I must put my head above the parapet.

Let's see if any trading houses donate

One thing is clear... I can give London a clean bill of health (in this respect).
... and I'll say that.

Now, I'm just working out the fine detail (donate buttons etc. )
Do you see the problem here?

Unless you tell someone beforehand the content of your disclosure, then there is no way of verifying the effects of such a disclosure. Also, the name of the outfit up front as it would be easy to wait for something to break, then claim "that was me that".
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Old Jan 13, 2018, 1:59am   #15
 
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Marco_Trader started this thread
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Do you see the problem here?

Unless you tell someone beforehand the content of your disclosure, then there is no way of verifying the effects of such a disclosure. Also, the name of the outfit up front as it would be easy to wait for something to break, then claim "that was me that".
Sorry... I've re-read your post 4 times.
I haven't got a clue what you are saying.

Separate your thoughts into paragraphs.
You are not making It clear, exactly what the problem is (that you have identified).
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