T2W Journal Section?

Is this section up to scratch? From where i'm standing i'd say no.

Wot r your views?

I'll get u started. There are so many demos available, why not use a demo account for the purpose of a journal?

Post the lot, acc. statements, charts trades....why not?

It would seem that traders who use a consistent system and are profitable dont want to give away their edge

This leaves either 'seat of the pants' traders who have no system as such, or those who have a fairly flexible discretionary system that cant be easily replicated.

We can only conclude that none of the later category are profitable enough to post statements even on a demo account .. if i could trade that way, i would have nothing to fear or lose by posting my demo or even my live statements

donaldduke said:

It would seem that traders who use a consistent system and are profitable dont want to give away their edge

This leaves either 'seat of the pants' traders who have no system as such, or those who have a fairly flexible discretionary system that cant be easily replicated.

We can only conclude that none of the later category are profitable enough to post statements even on a demo account .. if i could trade that way, i would have nothing to fear or lose by posting my demo or even my live statements

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Ok, lots of journals, lots of positive trades....can't deny that. But....it's not the trade....it's the performing.

Give a person a specific amount to trade with, over a prelonged period (6 months +), and it seems to play havoc with the old neurons.

once I tried a semi-public journal and I shat money.

dashriprock said:

once i tried a semi-public journal and i shat money.

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lol!

kimo'sabby said:

Is this section up to scratch? From where i'm standing i'd say no.

Wot r your views?

I'll get u started. There are so many demos available, why not use a demo account for the purpose of a journal?

Post the lot, acc. statements, charts trades....why not?

Click to expand...

Hi kim',
Members use the journal section for different reasons. For the most part, very few of them use it for the reasons suggested in the Essentials Of Journals Sticky

Ideally, it wouldn't be a forum to brag about one's trading prowess - but that appears to be what a lot of people use it for. Personally, I've never really seen the point of calling trades 'short @ ZYX, stop at ABC, target of . . .' etc. It's the thinking that lies behind the decision making process that's interesting - not so much the end result, IMO. If more members took the trouble to describe what they're trying to achieve and the steps they've taken (and, in some cases, not taken) to achieve it - the journals would be much more interesting than they are. Most importantly of all, the people that start them would stand to gain something from them, as would the members who read them.

But that's just my (unfashionable) view!
Have a good weekend all.
Tim.

timsk said:

Hi kim',
Members use the journal section for different reasons. For the most part, very few of them use it for the reasons suggested in the Essentials Of Journals Sticky

Ideally, it wouldn't be a forum to brag about one's trading prowess - but that appears to be what a lot of people use it for. Personally, I've never really seen the point of calling trades 'short @ ZYX, stop at ABC, target of . . .' etc. It's the thinking that lies behind the decision making process that's interesting - not so much the end result, IMO. If more members took the trouble to describe what they're trying to achieve and the steps they've taken (and, in some cases, not taken) to achieve it - the journals would be much more interesting than they are. Most importantly of all, the people that start them would stand to gain something from them, as would the members who read them.

But that's just my (unfashionable) view!
Have a good weekend all.
Tim.

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Let's not talk fashions.

Let's talk structure, and most importantly....time....not just time....money time.

Most members on T2W are FX orientated, Oanda offer a demo account. Why not use this facility?

A specified amount, over a specified amount of time.

Everyone could see wot is going on.




A specified amount, being traded over a specified amount of time. Why not?

reply

People keep journals for their own reasons and they are many and disparate. I'm not sure it helps anyone see-ing the performance of an individual trader, and certainly the showing of performance figures/accounts could be considered bragging anyway. Anyone trading live wouldn't be interested in keeping a demo journal going anyway, and personally I don't care what Trader x or Trader y is making or not making, nor do I feel the need to enter into some d1ck swinging contest either. To see someone trading without knowing why serves no real purpose.

I tend to agree with Timsk's post above I get a lot out of posts that tell why a certain trade was taken...but understand that many (myself included) don't want to reveal every detail of their trading edge.

If you remember the potential set-ups thread (or whatever it was called) that I think Trader-Dante started and was closed some time ago where traders alerted others to something that might set-up - I am sure that was useful to many, - there is a thread over @ ff.com (Redsword11's Price is Everything thread) which is similar, whereby traders are pointing out levels that they consider important on various instruments and explaining why - leaving those interested to judge whether to trade from them based on their own triggers if/when price tests such levels. The thread starter has also explained some of the things he looks for if/when price does test such areas and whilst I doubt he too has revealed every detail of his trading edge it is clear that less experienced have been positively guided by it.

I have contrinuted there and indeed in my own journal I kept here briefly in this way (amongst others,) and I would suggest that detailing levels and preferred tactics ahead of price arriving at them certainly helps many inexperienced traders.

G/L

timsk said:

Hi kim',
Members use the journal section for different reasons. For the most part, very few of them use it for the reasons suggested in the Essentials Of Journals Sticky

Ideally, it wouldn't be a forum to brag about one's trading prowess - but that appears to be what a lot of people use it for. Personally, I've never really seen the point of calling trades 'short @ ZYX, stop at ABC, target of . . .' etc. It's the thinking that lies behind the decision making process that's interesting - not so much the end result, IMO. If more members took the trouble to describe what they're trying to achieve and the steps they've taken (and, in some cases, not taken) to achieve it - the journals would be much more interesting than they are. Most importantly of all, the people that start them would stand to gain something from them, as would the members who read them.

But that's just my (unfashionable) view!
Have a good weekend all.
Tim.

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Sure Tim. Strange how you infer it is 'bragging' I suppose in your opinion it makes much more sense for people to only post copious amounts of trading 'advice' in the general forums but never post a live call to back it up.

new_trader said:

Sure Tim. Strange how you infer it is 'bragging' I suppose in your opinion it makes much more sense for people to only post copious amounts of trading 'advice' in the general forums but never post a live call to back it up.

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No n_t, you suppose wrong. That's certainly not my opinion at all.
But of course, if you want to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote - that's your prerogative.

timsk said:

No n_t, you suppose wrong. That's certainly not my opinion at all.
But of course, if you want to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote - that's your prerogative.

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The only thing I’ve seen from you is criticism for the way people run their journals. If you don’t like the way people run their journals how about starting one of your own and showing us all how it should be done, you know, lead by example. What people post in their journals is their own business and I personally have no complaints whatsoever, but I can understand how the absence of details in them can be irritating to those who haven’t got a clue about trading.

I know you and others wouldn’t understand, but risking your own money in a trade and posting about it live in a journal requires courage and a high level of concentration. However, posting pretty pictures with detailed annotations, even ones with the important bits blacked out, AFTER the event can be done by anyone at anytime and proves nothing. This forum and the whole internet is littered with that sort of garbage. Do you really think we need yet another journal filled with pretty pictures of charts with coloured lines under a ‘support’ level...or whatever...

Look at Travis's Journal, now that is journal in the true sense of journalling everything, and as a result it is a fascinating account of everything he is going / has gone through to reach his goal. He posts results and w/e analysis, but not in a bragging way, but he has never to my knowledge posted a trade before the event as this is not important to the context of his journal. Fo me his trading edge/methodology other than it being a diverse portfolio of mechanical systems is unclear to me and I don't think he has revealed the details anyway but I have still learnt/had re-inforced some valubale lessons from his Journal and I remain an avid reader of it, totally engrossed in his journey and of course willing him to succeed.

Conversely Porcel's recent start Journal does actually post potential set-ups before the event..He essentially trades 30min Pinbars/Hammers/Inverted hammer rejections of calculated pivots across multi instruments and posts (as do followers now) a heads up a few minutes before that something may be developing. His trading edge is simplistic and so far seems to be holding up...it is another great Journal for wholly different reasons to Travis's Jornal. Not because he is showing results (in a non bragging way) but because he has shared a simpe idea, has built up a following and the thread has become an interactive hub of activity based around that central idea.

Neither of the traders mentioned above are currently trading their edges solely, for a living. Both still work in other jobs, and I will be interested to see how their Journals (or even general contributions to open forums) change if/when they are trading solely for a living, - big numbers with what is effectively now the main intellectiual property asset of their trading business.

Why all the retards on here think that traders have to 'prove' themselves is beyond me. I am sure that the professional traders do not feel they have to. Certain traders share valuable insights into the way they trade...and it is then up to others to take something from that or reject it-it is their choice.

I view Trading as a business. My Trading Edge is my Intellectual property and is valuable. Like most professional traders and businesses I protect such Intellectual property central to my business's success. I have however shared widely aspects of it and discussed openly the technical components that underpin it's guiding principle - that of confluence.

For me, and clearly unlike the poster above, I get a lot out of reading posts about levels (coloured or not!) re supp/res as that too is a central tenet of my own trading edge, and judging from the reaction I have had, so do others.

There is a good selection of Journals here and elsewhere, some are good , some not so, but that is my subjective opinion..others might be different. What we should get away from though is dismissing a Journal just because the trader hasn't 'proved' that he is trading.

G/L

new_trader said:

However, posting pretty pictures with detailed annotations, even ones with the important bits blacked out, AFTER the event can be done by anyone at anytime and proves nothing. This forum and the whole internet is littered with that sort of garbage. Do you really think we need yet another journal filled with pretty pictures of charts with coloured lines under a ‘support’ level...or whatever...

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, posting setups after the event is total BS !

new_trader said:

What people post in their journals is their own business and I personally have no complaints whatsoever, but I can understand how the absence of details in them can be irritating to those who haven’t got a clue about trading.

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One of the posters above has misunderstood me. What people post in their own journals is up to them, I don't care if they do post pretty pictures of charts or if they don't. I don't care if the do explain their step by step process or if they don't. I don't care if people do give their reasons for starting a journal or if they don't. That is my stance on trading journals.

As for proving things, yes, I would like to see a few of the ubiquitous 'legendary' members start a trading journal with live calls (no step by step explanations or charts needed) to prove that they actually do put their money where their mouth is. I know that will never happen because they need to remain impervious to scrutiny and avoid the risk of shattering the facade.

tar said:

, posting setups after the event is total BS !

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are you saying that you have learnt nothing on your trading career/journey thus far from examples of set-ups that have not been posted in real-time?

Let's say for example that someone shows you 100 examples last week of a certain set-up, they show you the charts and the evidence is undisputable, the set-up is indeed there in the way they have described it...how then is that not more preferable to them telling you about the set-up without recent/historical examples ?

G/L

I think its just because people like to know who is actually worth listening too and who can actually trade.
At the end of the day, anybody can post charts in hindsight - NOT everyone can call profitable trades in real time.

It's an interesting angle on things. Firstly the term 'Legendary member' does not necessarrily mean that such are 'Legendary Traders.' Lol...I do however agree with the underlying assertion that such titles can be misleading.

How does a 'Legendary member' posting trades in real-time help you specifically ? Also, why should they ? You use the word 'scrutiny,' - well why should they open themselves up to scrutiny when there is no upside for them ? You totally miss the point, anyone that shares anything on an open forum for which he/she is not asking money for has nothing to prove - it is up to us as readers of the material whether we choose to take something from it or not. I have read many intersting posts/articles from many varies posters/authors both here and elsewhere and for the most part I have no idea whether they can actually turn a profit themselves or not but the things that interested me and which I researched further following their examples, helped me in developing my oiwn trading edge - and that is the essential point really as far as I see it.

There was the famous case a few years ago of Woodie's CCi trading, it Turned out (allegedly) that he didn't make a buck from it but even now I observe the patterns that he discussed and gave endless examples of, repeat and repeat.

G/L

new_trader said:

One of the posters above has misunderstood me. What people post in their own journals is up to them, I don't care if they do post pretty pictures of charts or if they don't. I don't care if the do explain their step by step process or if they don't. I don't care if people do give their reasons for starting a journal or if they don't. That is my stance on trading journals.

As for proving things, yes, I would like to see a few of the ubiquitous 'legendary' members start a trading journal with live calls (no step by step explanations or charts needed) to prove that they actually do put their money where there mouth is. I know that will never happen because they need to remain impervious to scrutiny and avoid the risk of shattering the facade.

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I understand the point, but those 2 skills do not necessarilly go together. As many have found, calling trades in real-time opens up a whole new psychological dimension that has to be tackled. I would say to folk who are reading a poster's contributions to do their own research on anything they may have posted/shown examples of that interests them, because even watching the poster trade their own trading edge live just tells you only that they can do it, not that you can, it being their edge not yours, developed by them for them, their needs/tolerances/preferences etc..

G/L

Devilicus said:

I think its just because people like to know who is actually worth listening too and who can actually trade.
At the end of the day, anybody can post charts in hindsight - NOT everyone can call profitable trades in real time.

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bbmac said:

Let's say for example that someone shows you 100 examples last week of a certain set-up, they show you the charts and the evidence is undisputable, the set-up is indeed there in the way they have described it...how then is that not more preferable to them telling you about the set-up without recent/historical examples ?

G/L

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Because there could have been another 100 examples of the same setup that are not shown.

This might not even be deliberate on the part of the poster. There is probably a natural human bias to overlook the setups that didn't quite work out as expected.

Thats why even a demo account, which logs every setup actually taken in real time, not just the ones that worked best in hindsight, with the not so good ones conveniently forgotten about.