Sooo Mad

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

If the blood rises that high then shut up shop I'd say, hit the big switch and get your head into another place.

I know it's a pisser.

Thanks Hal. I am trying to pre empt the feeling I might have before I look at my screen to be ready to do like you say. What I find hard with all of this is that you have to stay focused all the time. You can trade really well all week like I did last week then you get Friday when the market went nowhere (Aus index) You then end up loosing allot of your profits in half an hour of battle when you should have stayed out. mmmmm Must try harder.

tomcattrader said:

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

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Don't be mad, there is nothing unusual in this.

You don't give much information, so I will have to speculate to some extent. You say that your stop loss was 3 pts too close - what do you mean by this? If your stop was placed where your method (that has demonstrated a positive expectancy in back testing, forward testing, and live trial) suggested that it should be placed, it wasn't too close, it was where it should be.

If you didn't have a solid reason for placing it there, then you need to stop and have a good re-think, because you sound like you're not trading, you're gambling.

Was it genuinely too close? If so, why did you place it there? Are you afraid of losing? You cannot avoid losses, they happen, and you must accept them. Are you afraid of being "wrong"? Again, do not seek affirmation from the market, it will not give it to you.

Or are you simply upset because you narrowly missed a big move? Is it a case of "If only it was a point higher, the stop wouldn't have got hit"? If you think it was too close just because you got clipped out before a big move, you need to go back and do a bit of thinking.

If so, you have a very worrying attitude towards trading. Trading is not about catching big moves, or every move, or about any one trade. It is about winning more, over time, than you lose. If you miss a move, forget it and move on. The market will always be there. If you get upset about missing a move, the consequences can be fatal.

I say this a lot, but read (or re-read as the case may be) Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. The answers to most questions of this nature are in there.

tomcattrader said:

mmmmm Must try harder.

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No. Thats not it.
Must learn to relax and accept that you will not be right 100% of the time

Place your stop the same way you place your entry; with a reason.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a bad habit of placing my stops too tight as well as revenge trading.

Following on from my last post, you made a typical howling newbie error (I'm not having a go, everyone has done it).

You miss a move and you see all the money you should have been making go to some other bugger. Nothing wrong with that.

But then you feel desperate to trade and you try to enter - not once, but three times! I'm looking at a chart of the FTSE - can you show me the three great reversal set ups you took? They were great weren't they, because if they weren't why the hell would you step out in front of an express train?

Then you (your words) "try to call the bottom". So you can predict the future, presumably? Because if you can't, why would you try to call the bottom? Why not wait for a good area and a good entry signal and enter once you've had confirmation?

What was it that met the criteria of your method that made you enter 3 times? You really got 3 good signals on the way down today?

If not, and you are not following your method consistently and calmly, you are just gambling.

I hope this doesn't sound too hard, it certainly isn't meant too. But from the sounds of things, you f***ed up and you got the beating you richly deserved. That's hard, that sucks, I know. But everything in trading is perspective. If you f***ed up today, if it was purely your fault, then that is a great, hopeful, wonderful thing. Because it means that you can fix it. You know what you did wrong - you chased the market, you traded not according to your plan, whatever it might be. Just don't do that again.

EDIT:

Seriously, read Reminiscences. The answers are in there. If you've had some experience in the market, it will be like turning a light on in a dark room.

tomcattrader said:

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

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This happens. Soon you get fed up of revenge trading. Some get fed up quicker than others. If you have a proper plan it should stop you from revenge trading anyway. Trying to pick the bottom isnt part of anyone's succesful plan.

You guys are great all your comments are really help full. The situation with the FTSE Trade was I normally leave 10 pionts above my trade to give the trade room to breath. With the trade last night I left seven and it hit me out at 6045 then it drops to 5952 where it is now. Before this trade I had made a couple of not so good trades. I saw this FTSE trade start well I was five point up and 12 points from my stop lose when I hit the sack. In the morning I see I was kicked out sooo close three points higher on my stop lose (Where I normally place it) and I would have bagged mega points. I know its a numbers game but I was mad and then I just could seem to help myself trying to get revenge and I did three bad trades trying to call the bottom to win some money back from what I theorectically lost. Stupid I know.

tomcattrader said:

You guys are great all your comments are really help full. The situation with the FTSE Trade was I normally leave 10 pionts above my trade to give the trade room to breath. With the trade last night I left seven and it hit me out at 6045 then it drops to 5952 where it is now. Before this trade I had made a couple of not so good trades. I saw this FTSE trade start well I was five point up and 12 points from my stop lose when I hit the sack. In the morning I see I was kicked out sooo close three points higher on my stop lose (Where I normally place it) and I would have bagged mega points. I know its a numbers game but I was mad and then I just could seem to help myself trying to get revenge and I did three bad trades trying to call the bottom to win some money back from what I theorectically lost. Stupid I know.

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This is just my opinion, but that is not a good method of stop placement. Try placing it where the market tells you that you're wrong. 10pts is arbitrary.

tomcattrader said:

You guys are great all your comments are really help full. The situation with the FTSE Trade was I normally leave 10 pionts above my trade to give the trade room to breath. With the trade last night I left seven and it hit me out at 6045 then it drops to 5952 where it is now. Before this trade I had made a couple of not so good trades. I saw this FTSE trade start well I was five point up and 12 points from my stop lose when I hit the sack. In the morning I see I was kicked out sooo close three points higher on my stop lose (Where I normally place it) and I would have bagged mega points. I know its a numbers game but I was mad and then I just could seem to help myself trying to get revenge and I did three bad trades trying to call the bottom to win some money back from what I theorectically lost. Stupid I know.

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10 points is very close if you are trading overnight. The 200 day Average True Range (ATR) of the FTSE is around 78 points at the moment. I'm not surprised you got stopped out considering this. Like Pazienza said, proper placement is very important. Not just an arbitrary figure of 10 points.

tomcattrader said:

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

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Tell me why you did this? Now tell me the real reason why? Until you understand why, you will keep doing it unless you can put in place some system to stop you doing this. (Saying that you will only take 3 trades a day and walk away is empty because what's to actually make you walk away unless you pay some bouncer to drag you away from your desk.) In other words, it's nothing to do with your strategy but everything to do with what's going on inside your head.

tomcattrader said:

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

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Well ok next time after you get stopped go have w@nk over youur favourate bloomberg totty, a nice cup of tea, a shower and enjoy a bit of sunshine, then maybe a bite to eat.

Then sit back down and have a re evaluation of the situation, you'll be all nice and relaxed then, only don't go associating losing with a nice tommy tank, else you might end up beatin your meat thrice times a session !

I should know as I speak from... ahhhh, ahhhhh aa-experieeence . :cheesy::cheesy:



Until next time , stay hard buddy !

tomcattrader said:

I am trying sooo hard to be disciplined but...for example..I put in a trade last night on a down bet for FTSE and stick my stop loss 3 points too close which I never normally do and loose out on a major move down which would have been a great trade. I am then so pigged off I put three separte trade tryong to call the bottom. I find it so hard not to excercise revenge, jump the gun and keep my discipline. Any help you guys can give or point me in the right direction??

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Nothing wrong with a close stop although, for FT, 3 points is likely to go very quickly. If you are at the computer you could re-enter. That is something I do fairly often.

shadowninja said:

Tell me why you did this? Now tell me the real reason why? Until you understand why, you will keep doing it unless you can put in place some system to stop you doing this. (Saying that you will only take 3 trades a day and walk away is empty because what's to actually make you walk away unless you pay some bouncer to drag you away from your desk.) In other words, it's nothing to do with your strategy but everything to do with what's going on inside your head.

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Absolutely whats going on inside my head. I know this is the major area in my trading I need to deal with. I feel Im almost there with my trading but there is just this stumbling block to making a regular profit from trading. In the situation I described, I guess its because I feel angry. I feel like I am abit like im in self destruct mode. I know Im wrong to do some trades and I still do them. A bit Jeckle and Hyde maybe. I can be sooo disciplined for so long and then you get a trade that doesnt do what you expect and your stopped out then the market turns your way or you trade in the other direction and the market changes direction back. You then have three quick trades Long / Short / long right on the trend line maybe. Do you know what I mean...

HAL 9000 said:

If the blood rises that high then shut up shop I'd say, hit the big switch and get your head into another place.

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I bet he cant as he sounds like a compulsive gambler (I bet; get it? tee hee :cheesy

tomcattrader said:

Absolutely whats going on inside my head. I know this is the major area in my trading I need to deal with. I feel Im almost there with my trading but there is just this stumbling block to making a regular profit from trading. In the situation I described, I guess its because I feel angry. I feel like I am abit like im in self destruct mode. I know Im wrong to do some trades and I still do them. A bit Jeckle and Hyde maybe. I can be sooo disciplined for so long and then you get a trade that doesnt do what you expect and your stopped out then the market turns your way or you trade in the other direction and the market changes direction back. You then have three quick trades Long / Short / long right on the trend line maybe. Do you know what I mean...

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Dig deeper. Why are you doing this? You've not answered my question. Your reply is describing symptoms of an underlying problem.

Pazienza said:

If you f***ed up today, if it was purely your fault, then that is a great, hopeful, wonderful thing....

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Nice post but one thing I would add:

If you f*** up it's always your fault.

tomcattrader said:

Absolutely whats going on inside my head. I know this is the major area in my trading I need to deal with. I feel Im almost there with my trading but there is just this stumbling block to making a regular profit from trading. In the situation I described, I guess its because I feel angry. I feel like I am abit like im in self destruct mode.

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If its any consolation, i do exactly the same thing, all the time. I think it stems a bit from seeing trading as an escape from the boredom of real life. The rush of making easy money puts a bit of excitement back into things. As Paz says, then you are just paying for entertainment in the same way a gambler does. The result of the trading is not the goal, the adrenalin rush is.

This must change or i quit, there is no middle ground.

I tend to repeat to myself:

..."I am not a compulsive gambler"
..."I am not going to take anything but the best setups"
..."I get paid for being patient"
..."Waiting is cheaper than losing"
..."Is this what i have practised?"
..."Would i be proud to show this trade to [insert favourite T2W member]"
..."I will only lose on my terms"

Who knows, maybe it will eventually sink in!

Good luck!

coopster said:

If its any consolation, i do exactly the same thing, all the time. I think it stems a bit from seeing trading as an escape from the boredom of real life. The rush of making easy money puts a bit of excitement back into things. As Paz says, then you are just paying for entertainment in the same way a gambler does. The result of the trading is not the goal, the adrenalin rush is.

This must change or i quit, there is no middle ground.

I tend to repeat to myself:

..."I am not a compulsive gambler"
..."I am not going to take anything but the best setups"
..."I get paid for being patient"
..."Waiting is cheaper than losing"
..."Is this what i have practised?"
..."Would i be proud to show this trade to [insert favourite T2W member]"
..."I will only lose on my terms"

Who knows, maybe it will eventually sink in!

Good luck!

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coopster, whereabouts in Norwich are you ?

Put the kettle on