Mentor educating the unteachable

This is a discussion on Mentor educating the unteachable within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by oildaytrader How can a mentor who has not made any money from trading be coaching others?How can ...

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Old Oct 30, 2010, 1:09am   #16
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by oildaytrader View Post
How can a mentor who has not made any money from trading be coaching others?How can he prepare a trader's mindset to deal with fear and greed, and dealing with a losing period based on the mentor's method /trading system failure?How can he prepare the trader for failure of technical analysis and failure of technical set ups?

How can he prepare somebody to be profitable,when mentor relies on trading education for any profit?
find a few on this site promoting their courses but only revealing a few trades that work and barely hinting at the entire strat...but you can find more if you go to their website mind

The bit I don't agree with is I suspect some say they trade for a living and sell courses when they're not making any money. Doesn;t mean you can't learn from the course but it's deceiving from the beginning. Some FX sites charge $200+ for courses, other come on here to promote £1,000+ courses - must be a lucrative business.
When do you start teaching ODT?

I have great difficulty believing that a successful trader would charge for courses apart from to relieve boredom or at least reduce their own commissions. It's simply not human nature to be altruistic. They are selling for the reason of pleasing themself whether that be boredom, money, commission reduction, controlling one's own trading by teaching and solidifying understanding, etc.
Anyone teaching who really doesn't care about the money also reveals their trades in the open. Those doing it for money hide a large part of their methodology and are somewhat cryptic about the methods they apply.

Last edited by SanMiguel; Oct 30, 2010 at 6:27pm.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 2:13pm   #17
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by oildaytrader View Post
How can a mentor who has not made any money from trading be coaching others?How can he prepare a trader's mindset to deal with fear and greed, and dealing with a losing period based on the mentor's method /trading system failure?How can he prepare the trader for failure of technical analysis and failure of technical set ups?

How can he prepare somebody to be profitable,when mentor relies on trading education for any profit?
How can someone who doesn't actually trade offer up so much advice to those who do?
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 2:37pm   #18
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
I have great difficulty believing that a successful trader would charge for courses apart from to relieve boredom or at least reduce their own commissions. It's simply not human nature to be altruistic. They are selling for the reason of pleasing themself whether that be boredom, money, commission reduction, controlling one's own trading by teaching and solidifying understanding, etc.
Anyone teaching who really doesn't care about the money also reveals their trades in the open. Those doing it for money hide a large part of their methodology and are somewhat cryptic about the methods they apply.
You seem to know a different set of people than I do or you don't have insight into the motives of the people you know.

I know lots of people who not only sell courses, but also offer quite a bit of free help. I believe in the Learn-Earn-Return approach to life. The proportion of your time you devote to each of these changes as we get older. Some never see the benefit to themselves or to others of the Return part.

Many people charge for their courses so that they can Return both time and money. I know of one very successful Educator-Trainer-Coach who uses a lot of the money he earns to sponsor micro-loans in third world countries. Micro-loans is one of the most successful programs that not only gets people out of poverty without charity, but has proven to be a great program for the empowerment of women.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 2:56pm   #19
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by HowardCohodas View Post
You seem to know a different set of people than I do or you don't have insight into the motives of the people you know.

I know lots of people who not only sell courses, but also offer quite a bit of free help. I believe in the Learn-Earn-Return approach to life. The proportion of your time you devote to each of these changes as we get older. Some never see the benefit to themselves or to others of the Return part.

Many people charge for their courses so that they can Return both time and money. I know of one very successful Educator-Trainer-Coach who uses a lot of the money he earns to sponsor micro-loans in third world countries. Micro-loans is one of the most successful programs that not only gets people out of poverty without charity, but has proven to be a great program for the empowerment of women.
So, you're kind of a Robin Hood are you? Learn, take money off other people in the markets, and then return it to other people?
I'm not suggesting that Kiva (I assume that's what you're on about) isn't a good idea but what would be the benefit to the educator in a learn-earn-return world - something has to benefit them even if it's just that they get a warm glow from doing something that they think is good.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:19pm   #20
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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I have great difficulty believing that a successful trader would charge for courses apart from to relieve boredom or at least reduce their own commissions. It's simply not human nature to be altruistic.
it is human nature to be altrustic, but this is why it's very dangerous.

people get a thrill out of wanting to be the florence nightingale of trading and help everyone and answer every question and post in every thread and start trading schools, which would be fine except 99% of people who are compelled to do these sorts of things don't have the experience or skill to back it and this causes many arguments and much grief.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions, some people scam for greed and some people scam because of their altruism, execept the latter won't think of themselves as scamming, but in reality it's exactly what they are doing.

personally i don't know why anyone would help ANYONE from a game theory type perspective, since it makes no sense to help an opponent in a zero sum game, unless you are trying to mislead them.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:25pm   #21
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by HowardCohodas View Post
You seem to know a different set of people than I do or you don't have insight into the motives of the people you know.

I know lots of people who not only sell courses, but also offer quite a bit of free help. I believe in the Learn-Earn-Return approach to life. The proportion of your time you devote to each of these changes as we get older. Some never see the benefit to themselves or to others of the Return part.

Many people charge for their courses so that they can Return both time and money. I know of one very successful Educator-Trainer-Coach who uses a lot of the money he earns to sponsor micro-loans in third world countries. Micro-loans is one of the most successful programs that not only gets people out of poverty without charity, but has proven to be a great program for the empowerment of women.
Hmmm...I've a strong feeling that you are in fact not new to this forum and this is your second, or perhaps third identity on T2W....am I way off?
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:29pm   #22
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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it is human nature to be altrustic

personally i don't know why anyone would help ANYONE from a game theory type perspective
???

It's only human nature to be altruisitc towards family and friends surely. I suppose there could be some form of community effect but again...only if it benefits the originatgor somehow. I guess we're crossing alittle bit og biology, psychology, and religion here all of which have slightly different things related to altruism: http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ltruistic.html
Game theory explains the situation well from a point of view called "Prisoner's dilemna" but the actual scenario is a little different.

...I still maintain the mentor does it for some benefit for himself.
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:29pm   #23
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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it is human nature to be altrustic, but this is why it's very dangerous.

people get a thrill out of wanting to be the florence nightingale of trading and help everyone and answer every question and post in every thread and start trading schools, which would be fine except 99% of people who are compelled to do these sorts of things don't have the experience or skill to back it and this causes many arguments and much grief.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions, some people scam for greed and some people scam because of their altruism, execept the latter won't think of themselves as scamming, but in reality it's exactly what they are doing.

personally i don't know why anyone would help ANYONE from a game theory type perspective, since it makes no sense to help an opponent in a zero sum game, unless you are trying to mislead them.
Interesting that you mention game theory and altrusim as I was thinking of the prisoners dilemma the other day in relation to what we give back to the market.

Back on thread iirc certain game theory experiments have been conducted that actually prove (as a species) we are intrinsically altruistic..
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 7:53pm   #24
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
???

It's only human nature to be altruisitc towards family and friends surely. I suppose there could be some form of community effect but again...only if it benefits the originatgor somehow. I guess we're crossing alittle bit og biology, psychology, and religion here all of which have slightly different things related to altruism: http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ltruistic.html
Game theory explains the situation well from a point of view called "Prisoner's dilemna" but the actual scenario is a little different.

...I still maintain the mentor does it for some benefit for himself.
yeah, but you put in charity boxes and stuff right? giving to tsunami victims you'll never see. maybe there is some sort of personal interest, ie. if i help them, they will help me when i need it, therefore i'd better not be a scrooge.

anywayyyy, that whole wasp hoopla was case in point to what i am saying. i have seen many of the docs relating to that scam, and it was obvious he had some sort of delusion that he would single handedly make everyone around him rich, and they'd all love him, like mother teresa of the markets or some ****. WRONG, of course, because it all fell apart.

now compare that to someone like david robertson who is just a sociopath and out to get money any way he can from anybody he can. that's scamming for greed, plain and simple.

i would never bother with a mentor anyway, but i did, i would def go with someone who had proven results, because there is too much risk of landing with someone like those two!
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Old Oct 31, 2010, 8:15pm   #25
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post
So, you're kind of a Robin Hood are you? Learn, take money off other people in the markets, and then return it to other people?
I'm not suggesting that Kiva (I assume that's what you're on about) isn't a good idea but what would be the benefit to the educator in a learn-earn-return world - something has to benefit them even if it's just that they get a warm glow from doing something that they think is good.
Robin Hood stole. If you deliver a service at a fair price and satisfied students recommend other students, where is the theft? Where is the analogy?

Of course there is benefit to the giver. From my post: "Some never see the benefit to themselves or to others of the Return part." This is something that must be experienced to be understood. I have not the gift of words to describe it.
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Old Nov 2, 2010, 11:49am   #26
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

oildaytrader started this thread
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How can someone who doesn't actually trade offer up so much advice to those who do?
Because they get responses from failures and banking buffoons who blew blew up the entire financial system and their own banks.These scunts do not know how to trade and call themselves traders.
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Old Nov 2, 2010, 11:57am   #27
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

oildaytrader started this thread
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Originally Posted by SanMiguel View Post

When do you start teaching ODT?
I will never teach anyone , I can make between 250% and 1,000 % a year from trading, on a million dollars thats $10m a year without compounding, and I can compound it on a weekly basis i.e if I make 4% this week next week I will make on 104 % capital etc etc.

When I retire I will pass on my secrets to my family or successor , or if I find a charitable cause and require successors to keep supporting the charity after my passing in which case I will train people for free.

Only useless traders coach.
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Old Nov 2, 2010, 11:58am   #28
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Because they get responses from failures and banking buffoons who blew blew up the entire financial system and their own banks.These scunts do not know how to trade and call themselves traders.
a trader assumes risk. you might like to apply that.

the OED does not say trader: one who uses MACD and Ichimoku Clouds in 5 second intervals whose name is ODT.
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Old Nov 2, 2010, 11:59am   #29
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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How can someone who doesn't actually trade offer up so much advice to those who do?
There are many aspects to trading besides market related issues including discipline and emotion management. Getting mentoring/coaching on those elements from a non trader can be very productive. There are other elements to successful training that are amenable to coaching by the non trader, but I think you can get the idea from my two examples.
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Old Nov 2, 2010, 12:02pm   #30
 
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Re: Mentor educating the unteachable

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Originally Posted by oildaytrader View Post
Only useless traders coach.
That's simply not my experience from both the receiving end and the giving end. Sorry you feel that way.

I passed my secrets on to my son who is a mathematician and economist for review in case I missed something. He now trades in a similar fashion.

I personally get a lot of gratification out of ETC (Education-Teaching-Coaching) and it does not interfere with my trading where I fund my living expenses. Another benefit of the ETC is that I can devote to some luxuries and travel.

Last edited by HowardCohodas; Nov 2, 2010 at 12:09pm.
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