Immigration and illegal immigrants.

It is said there are almost million illegal immigrants living in Uk. These contain overstayers, failed asylum seekers and illegal entrants.

I am interested to hear view of traders of how the government should deal with this problem.

All opinions are welcomed.

rockseller said:

It is said there are almost million illegal immigrants living in Uk. These contain overstayers, failed asylum seekers and illegal entrants.

I am interested to hear view of traders of how the government should deal with this problem.

All opinions are welcomed.

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If this is going to turn into Daily Mail 2 then Gawd help us.

String 'em up I say!

There is no way to deal with it now. The battle's been long lost. All you can bet on now is the time. Does the British population become a minority in, say, 60 years, or 40 years?

The integration of the EU has resulted in the disolving of National boundaries, as the process of globalisation continues, as the world continues to move towards a one world totalitarian government/New World Order.
A multi-national integrated population is one of the intended outcomes of this.
In the USA, they have a big illegal immiigration problem from Mexico, based on the same causes - the destruction of Nationalism, and increasing moves towards globalism.

JTrader said:

The integration of the EU has resulted in the disolving of National boundaries, as the process of globalisation continues, as the world continues to move towards a one world totalitarian government/New World Order.
A multi-national integrated population is one of the intended outcomes of this.
In the USA, they have a big illegal immiigration problem from Mexico, based on the same causes - the destruction of Nationalism, and increasing moves towards globalism.

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I'm up for that.

Remove all borders and don't know about New World Order but I would like to have ONE World Order...

Hey Atilla,

You'll love the new fashion accessory for the OWO.

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2002/03/50769

fibonelli said:

Hey Atilla,

You'll love the new fashion accessory for the OWO.

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2002/03/50769

Click to expand...

Nah - I already have some of these...

Atilla said:

I'm up for that.

Remove all borders and don't know about New World Order but I would like to have ONE World Order...

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Atilla my old mucker !

my parting advice for you, and those members of a similar mind-set (on NWO, war etc. - as i'm not posting any more on it), is to continue with the QUALITY alternative media such as prisonplanet.com and whatreallyhappened.com, ditch the BBC/CNN etc. and actually believe what the non-mainstream are saying, and quote the non-mainstream in your discussions, don't be embarrassed to quote them - as they represent the truth! It makes your arguments that much more credible.
You know it makes sense.........
Good trading.

JT do you think these so-called alternative media sources are somehow purer and more truthful than their established mainstream counterparts? Surely like everyone else in the game of flogging copy they deliver a version of the truth (generous description) designed to maximise commercial gain and as such should be trusted no more or less than any of their rivals?

I gave up reading news years ago so there is a chance that a new type of genuinely altruistic truth-seeking source has been established, but I doubt it: it wouldn't sell.

Look at prisonplanet, for instance: the tone, the layout, the colours, the banner ads, the smell of fear and conspiracy, the name itself, the deliberate flattering of the reader to make them think they are superior for digesting the 'real' news etc. and tell me it hasn't been perfectly tailored to gratify a certain audience and keep the money rolling in.

That's not to demean anyone for reading it, far from it. If news is your thing, then it's surely better to read as many sources as possible, especially if they prickle & challenge, rather than stick to the one or two that always comfortably reinforce one's beliefs.

But to hold 'independent' as naturally superior to or more authentic than 'mainstream' is to miss an obvious trick, imho. Perhaps I'm too cynical.

frugi said:

Do you think these so-called alternative media sources are somehow purer and more truthful than their commercial counterparts, almost as if they're here for the good of mankind? Surely like everyone else in the flogging copy game they deliver a version of the truth (generous description) designed to maximise commercial gain and as such should be trusted no more or less than the mainstream media?

Mind you I gave up reading news years ago so there is a chance that a new type of genuinely altruistic truth-seeking source has been established, but I doubt it: it wouldn't sell.

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Interesting question.

Go check them out for yourself (in detail - for hours/days/weeks, & not just a couple of minutes glancing), and report back with your findings :idea: :!: .

Because with any type of journalism you are relying on them telling the unbiased truth, for me, I look for the supporting evidence, multiple references per article to support/justify/provide evidence of claims made. This is what makes a quality academic essay, and what also makes a quality piece of journalistic work......
prisonplanet.com and whatreallyhappened.com are VERY good at providing MANY more of these links/references to official documentation/reports etc. etc. than the mainstream press, therefore, for me, their quality/standard of journalism is also much better than the mainstream press.

I also look at the people producing the material. At prisonplanet.com, Alex Jones appears a very honourable, honest, decent, kind hearted, courageous person with good morals etc. etc.
Mike Rivero from whatreallyhappened.com appears similar. I can tell this i have listened to them both multiiple times on internet radion.

This doesn't however mean that i soak up what they say, without critically analysing it all for myself, that would make me gullible.

I tend to find the news depressing and so prefer to spend my time doing other things.

JT leaves discussion, B4 he gets sucked further back into this type of non-trading related debate!

frugi said:

JT do you think these so-called alternative media sources are somehow purer and more truthful than their established mainstream counterparts? Surely like everyone else in the game of flogging copy they deliver a version of the truth (generous description) designed to maximise commercial gain and as such should be trusted no more or less than any of their rivals?

I gave up reading news years ago so there is a chance that a new type of genuinely altruistic truth-seeking source has been established, but I doubt it: it wouldn't sell.

Look at prisonplanet, for instance: the tone, the layout, the colours, the banner ads, the smell of fear and conspiracy, the name itself, the deliberate flattering of the reader to make them think they are superior for digesting the 'real' news etc. and tell me it hasn't been perfectly tailored to gratify a certain audience and keep the money rolling in.

This is only your perception of it, far from a definitive conclusion.
Advertising pays the bills just like with mainstream news.
Alex Jones has made many films, you can buy them all from prisonplanet, but while trying to "sell" them on radio, he usually states - or, you can go and watch them for free at google video. So for him, people seeing his work is the most impoirtant aspect, not the "fiat currency" that he can generate.


Obviously, like with any other source, there is scope for exageration etc, thats why viewer/reader self-analysis of content is important - looking at evidence/sources etc.


That's not to demean anyone for reading it, far from it. If news is your thing, then it's surely better to read as many sources as possible, especially if they prickle & challenge, rather than stick to the one or two that always comfortably reinforce one's beliefs.

But to hold 'independent' as naturally superior to or more authentic than 'mainstream' is to miss an obvious trick, imho. Perhaps I'm too cynical.

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OK, so i haven't left the discussion just yet!

I agree, the more of a skeptic you are...........the less likely you are to be deceived.....

frugi said:

JT do you think these so-called alternative media sources are somehow purer and more truthful than their established mainstream counterparts? Surely like everyone else in the game of flogging copy they deliver a version of the truth (generous description) designed to maximise commercial gain and as such should be trusted no more or less than any of their rivals?

I gave up reading news years ago so there is a chance that a new type of genuinely altruistic truth-seeking source has been established, but I doubt it: it wouldn't sell.

Look at prisonplanet, for instance: the tone, the layout, the colours, the banner ads, the smell of fear and conspiracy, the name itself, the deliberate flattering of the reader to make them think they are superior for digesting the 'real' news etc. and tell me it hasn't been perfectly tailored to gratify a certain audience and keep the money rolling in.

That's not to demean anyone for reading it, far from it. If news is your thing, then it's surely better to read as many sources as possible, especially if they prickle & challenge, rather than stick to the one or two that always comfortably reinforce one's beliefs.

But to hold 'independent' as naturally superior to or more authentic than 'mainstream' is to miss an obvious trick, imho. Perhaps I'm too cynical.

Click to expand...

The widespread assumption IMO when something has the term "conspiracy theory" attached to it, is that it's a interesting theory, but ultimately false. The reason it is likely perceived as ultimately false, is because the story has been buried/ignored/whitewashed/not endorsed by the more official, reputable, trustable mainstream controlled media. Regardless of the evidence that suggests that the "alternative non-mainstream conspiracy theory" is in fact the TRUTH!

Frugi has made a point , I'm afraid, that is the only TRUTH. No one does anything for nothing in business. Once a so called free newspaper, for example, relies on funds from an advertiser, then he is no longer independent. This happens, not only in the media, but all through anything that is sold.

Frugi, you have a fellow cynic. I do flip through the papers, paid for by my wife, but I don't read anything without wondering who is telling the lies. Trying to separate the wheat from the chaff is something that I have tired of doing.

Split

I agree with JTrader. I read a lot. I mean A LOT. I read all kinds of material. For and against. Couple of examples - the Economist and the Telegraph...

The Economist was a favourite read of mine being a student of economics. My teachers and lecturers advised me to read it. At 16 - 18 - 21 I thought it was a brilliant read. It had Current affairs, economics, science and techonology. Politics. The lot. As I grew older and dare I say wiser - reading alternative material I began to question the material that was written as a matter of fact. The slant they give their news always has the same message. Conform or no no no tut tut tut, what have we here now? Subliminal superiority and they are pushing a story, leading one by the nose.

Now when I pick it up and read it I think it's a lot of bull. Hence my subscription ended about 15 years ago.

The change was not the Economist but my awareness to opposing and contradicting opinions that were undeniably true accounts compared to what was being dished out by the Economist. Here is an example for you. Tianomon Square. The number of times Chineese human rights and Tianomon Square is mentioned makes me sick. How is it that human right abuses by the French against the Algerians - 2m tortured and killed arn't repeated on an annual basis. How is it that there are no foreign nationals in the French parliament compared to all the foreigners in their country. Fascist politicians if there ever existed one imo. Even Zidanes dad is not allowed to vote or hold a French passport. What's going on here with human rights?

Here is another example. The support given to Thatcher in defeating Scargill and the unions in the UK and the support given to the Polish strike movement and that guy with that big touche on his face. You are either for the unions or againts. What is exactly your angle on these stories.

Hence, my point is we are brain washed and led by the ruling politicians and elite to suit their agenda and power plays.

To part from the standard news dished out and question what you are being led to believe is true - is like leaping across the grand canyon and leaving your mind behind you. The view from the other side is quite somehting else. Anybody seen the Hulk. When his hopping like a flea from one mountain to another. Sort of like that. Leave it all behind you and take a fresh look, a different perspective on the view.

Open your mind.

WHAT YOU PUT IN - GETS CRUNCHED BY THE BRAIN AND DETERMINES - WHAT COMES OUT.

...As always......Good post Atilla.....!

Stand back in amazement we might have some grounds for agreement here and I might even take the lock off the playpen for you ...joking ok ?

My premise is simply...we all need to survive...we set out our approach geared to that...we find the people (our clientle) who will help us achieve the aim...we find out what they want and we give it to them...we (supplier /client) then all get what we want..all very logical,but has nothing to do with establishing objectivity. This is how stuff works and it certainly encompasses the media..why in heavens name wouldn't it.?

Why is it some people can't see the wood for the trees

Here is the strategic analysis of the corporate controlled media:
New World Order 101
"...The New World Order consists of the most powerful and wealthy people on the planet who control much of the worlds wealth. They have a plan to implement a one world government so that they will have total control over the worlds people and resources....".

Complicit participants of New World Order agenda will give several reasons why the NWO plan and human population reduction is something that is needed including; overpopulation, food shortages, and global warming.........".

".....These elite families own and control not only elements within our own American government but also the newspaper, magazine presses, worldwide television networks and the "news" people that talk on them also. That is why the billions of people don't know about how the world is being run by this small set of hidden people. 99.9% of the American media is run by huge global corporations that are owned by these secretive control freaks!............".

http://fight4truth.com/thenewworldorder.htm

Here is the detail:
Invisible Control Ready
"............David Rockefeller, founder of the aforementioned Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of that organization in June of 1991: "We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination [read that "democracy"] practiced in past centuries."

That same article continues with an outright admission of a controlled media that prevents reporters from writing the truth.

John Swinton, former Chief of Staff of the most powerful and prestigious newspaper on earth, The New York Times, when asked to give a toast to the "free press" at the New York Press Club stated: "There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

http://www.uhuh.com/control/unseen.htm

Good posts from everyone, better than reading the Opinions pages in the papers.

As I see it, the problem is the character of the human being. We are aquisitive and, also, very conservative. We don't like change and we, certainly, hate it if it is going to affect our wealth. When I was very young I was not a communist but I was, certainly, full of socialist ideas. As I got older I realised that socialist leaders nearly always ended up with much more money than anyone else. I don't blame them for it, that is the way the human being is. I read, somewhere, that Tony Blair is going to receive E23,000,000 in the two years following his retirement.

Looking at our Spanish socialists, Filipe Gonzalez looks very prosperous, to me, as do the retired union leaders, who still would not dream of wearing a tie, because of their afiliations with the workers.

In Socialist councils, the stones that the mayors have been sitting on have been raised and there all sorts of creepy crawlies underneath, especially with the construction lobby where land speculation is rife. Land has been bought for a song and "Voila !" a road is constructed and everyone concerned is rich, except the original owner!

It can be seen from this, that multinational ambitions creep into government which, in turn, results in lucrative arms deals, or what have you. So, all those poor people who lost their possesions in the flooding are going to find their property devalued because it is in a dangerous zone but, someone, somewhere is going to make money out of them.

We are like that. Some of us are opportunists who see how to make a profitable buck out of others.

I do listen to the You and Yours programme on Radio 4. The number of gullible people about does not interest me, anymore. The Ingenious methods of the unscrupulous do, though.

Taking a look at what is closer to home gives an insight in what goes on in the power brokers' circles. Same thing, different wealth scale.

Split

"Why is it some people can't see the wood "....well they could if they used a mirror...and my point is ? self reflection is a wondrous thing,but it won't stop someone becoming a 'chip from the old block'

To clarify things here -
prisonplanet.com/inforwars.com report evidenced FACTS - i.e. things that have happened, things that have been said, things that can be proven - that is a FACT!

A lot of the FACTS that prisonplanet.com/inforwars.com are FACTS that the CONTROLLED mainstream media will not touch/are not allowed to touch with a BARGE-POLE.

Some of the facts reported by prisonplanet.com/inforwars.com are in the controlled mainstream media, eg. it may be a BIG story buried in a small paragraph within a mainstream controlled newspaper, or mainstream controlled TV news such as the ABC & CNN CIA networks.
This is why a fair few of the articles on prisonplanet.com/inforwars.com are cut & pasted from mainstream media sources - when they have actually reported on something that is relevant, instead of Britney Spears shaving her hair off!

In short, prisonplanet.com/inforwars.com ARE THE NEWS, generally reporting what the controlled mainstream media will NOT touch with a barge-pole.