Current events

This is a discussion on Current events within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; May and Trump are dictators?...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 21, 2017, 12:32pm   #31
Joined Feb 2002
May and Trump are dictators?
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 1:17pm   #32
 
dbphoenix's Avatar
Joined Aug 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
There is in my opinion an alarming tendency for a move away from democracy towards dictatorship. This is evident in Turkey under Erdogan, Russia under Putin, the rise of the right wing parties in Europe, North Korea under Kim, China under Xi and even the USA under Trump.

Not good imho to let autocracy get its way. The people should object to being ruled by extremists of any colour.
If the people are themselves extremists, then they are getting exactly what they want. This holds true for everyone on your list.
__________________
Trading Price
dbphoenix is offline Training literature vendor (e.g courses / spreadbetting guides / eBooks)   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 1:19pm   #33
 
dbphoenix's Avatar
Joined Aug 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
May and Trump are dictators?
Given that Trump would like to do away with Congress and the judiciary, what would you call him? Don't know about May.
__________________
Trading Price
dbphoenix is offline Training literature vendor (e.g courses / spreadbetting guides / eBooks)   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 1:46pm   #34
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
Given that Trump would like to do away with Congress and the judiciary, what would you call him? Don't know about May.

Lots of politicians in democracies talk about wanting to do lots of things. Dictators just do them.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 2:24pm   #35
 
Atilla's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
I think TM prefers no debate and much secrecy, makes parliament a bit of a nuisance along with the HoLs to her. This should be obvious with her conduct and behaviour but not obvious enough.

She rules out early elections and then no sooner as opportunity rears head opts to use the Fixed Term Parliament Act to call elections when both Labour and LibDems putting up little opposition.

She wishes to squash opposition from within her own party ofcourse but states it's the SNP and the others trying to undermine her hard Brexit negotiations.

Evades TV debate knowing she'll be shown up and will look silly answering tough questions with soundbites.

Clearly, Theresa May has decided on a snap general election because she wants to secure a big parliamentary majority before the full consequences of Brexit become 'obvious' to voters. Will the deal be put to parliament or another referendum for the people to vote knowing more precisely what they are voting for? Unlikely. Let the experts in her cabinet decide.

Whatever you want to believe, both US and the UK heading towards some uncharted and very risky times ahead, taken there by two hand holding schmuts imo. Leaders unite. These two have managed to split their two nations in half.

Go figure.


Click the image to open in full size.


She stayed quiet on this most outrageous headlines because it suits her to do so. She's just another pure egotistical politician - wannabe dictator same as Trump contained by the constitutions and our parliamentary systems. For now anyway.
__________________
Know your L I M I T A T I O N S
Atilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 2:32pm   #36
 
Pat494's Avatar
Joined Mar 2004
Pat494 started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
If the people are themselves extremists, then they are getting exactly what they want. This holds true for everyone on your list.
The extremism issue is SO important imho. If the people vote in " the *******s " then we are in for a rough time.
__________________
Love your own area.
Long live NIMBYISM

for quality of life.

The Westcountry is being overrun with
grotty new estates
Pat494 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 3:31pm   #37
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
I think TM prefers no debate and much secrecy, makes parliament a bit of a nuisance along with the HoLs to her. This should be obvious with her conduct and behaviour but not obvious enough.

She rules out early elections and then no sooner as opportunity rears head opts to use the Fixed Term Parliament Act to call elections when both Labour and LibDems putting up little opposition.

She wishes to squash opposition from within her own party ofcourse but states it's the SNP and the others trying to undermine her hard Brexit negotiations.

Evades TV debate knowing she'll be shown up and will look silly answering tough questions with soundbites.

Clearly, Theresa May has decided on a snap general election because she wants to secure a big parliamentary majority before the full consequences of Brexit become 'obvious' to voters. Will the deal be put to parliament or another referendum for the people to vote knowing more precisely what they are voting for? Unlikely. Let the experts in her cabinet decide.

Whatever you want to believe, both US and the UK heading towards some uncharted and very risky times ahead, taken there by two hand holding schmuts imo. Leaders unite. These two have managed to split their two nations in half.

Go figure.

Politicians (in democratic countries) will do anything legal to gain power and maintain power. Why would a political leader not do something that increased their power? Including diverting attention towards/away from particular issues/opponents: as long as lies are not involved she can say what she likes surely?

As for not appearing in TV debates, what politician would appear if they judged they had more to lose than to gain by doing so? Doesn't mean anything significant either way.

In the end, whatever the Government does only happens with the collective will of Parliament. Its our own fault in the end.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 3:36pm   #38
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
Given that Trump would like to do away with Congress and the judiciary, what would you call him? Don't know about May.

Also, you're rather de-valuing the very correct opposition to true dictatorial government by implying that if Trump and May are as truly as bad as real dictators, the real dictators are only as bad Trump and May.

The two sets of people are not comparable. I'm sure its better to live under a government you can demonstrate against and vote out in a few years time, than die under one you can't.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 3:40pm   #39
 
Atilla's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
Politicians (in democratic countries) will do anything legal to gain power and maintain power. Why would a political leader not do something that increased their power? Including diverting attention towards/away from particular issues/opponents: as long as lies are not involved she can say what she likes surely?

As for not appearing in TV debates, what politician would appear if they judged they had more to lose than to gain by doing so? Doesn't mean anything significant either way.

In the end, whatever the Government does only happens with the collective will of Parliament. Its our own fault in the end.

Ladiladiladilalalalalaaaaaaaa

How did Xi Jinping get elected to be President of China? He was chosen by the National People's Congress. The National Congress of the Communist Party of China elects the General Secretary. But the norm for some time has been for the post to go to whoever gets the most votes in elections to the Politburo at the previous National Congress. This seems to be openly contested, with previous General Secretaries unable to choose their heir.


Vladimir Putin moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration, rising quickly through the ranks and becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999, when Yeltsin resigned. Putin won the subsequent 2000 Presidential election by a 53% to 30% margin, thus avoiding a runoff with his Communist Party of the Russian Federation opponent, Gennady Zyuganov.[8] He was re-elected President in 2004 with 72% of the vote.

What ever floats your boat!!!
__________________
Know your L I M I T A T I O N S
Atilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 4:12pm   #40
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
Ladiladiladilalalalalaaaaaaaa

How did Xi Jinping get elected to be President of China? He was chosen by the National People's Congress. The National Congress of the Communist Party of China elects the General Secretary. But the norm for some time has been for the post to go to whoever gets the most votes in elections to the Politburo at the previous National Congress. This seems to be openly contested, with previous General Secretaries unable to choose their heir.


Vladimir Putin moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration, rising quickly through the ranks and becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999, when Yeltsin resigned. Putin won the subsequent 2000 Presidential election by a 53% to 30% margin, thus avoiding a runoff with his Communist Party of the Russian Federation opponent, Gennady Zyuganov.[8] He was re-elected President in 2004 with 72% of the vote.

What ever floats your boat!!!

I don't understand your point.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 4:43pm   #41
 
Atilla's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
I don't understand your point.
They are simply just different systems.

Russians and Chinese less subtle than UK or US that's all. Those leaders still had to work up the ranks and get elected by their system. In some respects I don't blame them. It is difficult to rule a common mob of ill educated numpties. We have a few non-thinking let's just get on with it kind our selves.

They are not like tyrants as in Korean Leader Kim Jong-un.

Then there is the fact that US and UK have supported all kinds of sick and vile fascist regimes and juntas all over the place torturing people as long as they buy our weapons or carry favour with our interests.... Saudi family being one of them.

US staunted democracy in Latin America for years. UK & US in the ME.


All a load of tosh to me. Which I accept and swim along with all the other fish but when peeps like you make out we are so much better than any of them thats rubbish. Simply that after centuries of wars and two big wars we've realised as long as we don't kill each other but kill others against our interests it's ok.


Simply that - different socia-political systems and I'm not sure if any one is better than the other depending on which step of the ladder you're on.
__________________
Know your L I M I T A T I O N S
Atilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 5:36pm   #42
 
dbphoenix's Avatar
Joined Aug 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
Also, you're rather de-valuing the very correct opposition to true dictatorial government by implying that if Trump and May are as truly as bad as real dictators, the real dictators are only as bad Trump and May.

The two sets of people are not comparable. I'm sure its better to live under a government you can demonstrate against and vote out in a few years time, than die under one you can't.
Everybody has to start somewhere. Nazi Germany didn't just happen. Nor did the Soviet Union. Plenty of examples.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few.

--Wendell Phillips
__________________
Trading Price
dbphoenix is offline Training literature vendor (e.g courses / spreadbetting guides / eBooks)   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 6:00pm   #43
 
Pat494's Avatar
Joined Mar 2004
Pat494 started this thread There are plenty of examples from the past of " how to impose it ".
Take over security
Take control of the press, TV etc.
Take over the military
etc.
I remember reading somewhere that Stalin used to give his City chiefs the authority to liquidate 10% of the population under their control just to make that point and get rid of any nuisances.

Dictatorship is not for the squeamish.
__________________
Love your own area.
Long live NIMBYISM

for quality of life.

The Westcountry is being overrun with
grotty new estates
Pat494 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 9:05pm   #44
Global Moderators are volunteer members with senior administrative powers to moderate all forums.
 
counter_violent's Avatar
Joined Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
I think TM prefers no debate and much secrecy, makes parliament a bit of a nuisance along with the HoLs to her. This should be obvious with her conduct and behaviour but not obvious enough.

She rules out early elections and then no sooner as opportunity rears head opts to use the Fixed Term Parliament Act to call elections when both Labour and LibDems putting up little opposition.

She wishes to squash opposition from within her own party ofcourse but states it's the SNP and the others trying to undermine her hard Brexit negotiations.

Evades TV debate knowing she'll be shown up and will look silly answering tough questions with soundbites.

Clearly, Theresa May has decided on a snap general election because she wants to secure a big parliamentary majority before the full consequences of Brexit become 'obvious' to voters. Will the deal be put to parliament or another referendum for the people to vote knowing more precisely what they are voting for? Unlikely. Let the experts in her cabinet decide.

Whatever you want to believe, both US and the UK heading towards some uncharted and very risky times ahead, taken there by two hand holding schmuts imo. Leaders unite. These two have managed to split their two nations in half.

Go figure.


Click the image to open in full size.


She stayed quiet on this most outrageous headlines because it suits her to do so. She's just another pure egotistical politician - wannabe dictator same as Trump contained by the constitutions and our parliamentary systems. For now anyway.
May's realisation is simply that in order to stand up to the EU machine, she needs to have the clear backing of the UK people. Everyone and their dog is out to undermine the UK. Calling for a stronger position is her only option and if things don't go well in the upcoming negotiations, she will simply tell them all to naff off. Most people realise the position and by backing her up front, give her permission to excersise the naff off option. As long as the Lib Labs get decimated, all is well
__________________
Spreading the madness across this suite of forums.

Those are my principles and if you don't like them, well..... I have others.

Kin Dissers Everywhere

We are all leavers now
counter_violent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2017, 11:39pm   #45
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
They are simply just different systems.

Russians and Chinese less subtle than UK or US that's all. Those leaders still had to work up the ranks and get elected by their system. In some respects I don't blame them. It is difficult to rule a common mob of ill educated numpties. We have a few non-thinking let's just get on with it kind our selves.

They are not like tyrants as in Korean Leader Kim Jong-un.

Then there is the fact that US and UK have supported all kinds of sick and vile fascist regimes and juntas all over the place torturing people as long as they buy our weapons or carry favour with our interests.... Saudi family being one of them.

US staunted democracy in Latin America for years. UK & US in the ME.


All a load of tosh to me. Which I accept and swim along with all the other fish but when peeps like you make out we are so much better than any of them thats rubbish. Simply that after centuries of wars and two big wars we've realised as long as we don't kill each other but kill others against our interests it's ok.


Simply that - different socia-political systems and I'm not sure if any one is better than the other depending on which step of the ladder you're on.

I suspect there's a huge difference between living in a democracy and living under a dictatorship. That said, its not the job of democracies to spread the democratic system: that's up to the people of each non-democratic state themselves.

As far as foreign policy of democratic countries is concerned, its aims are to secure the security, wealth and future of their own peoples. If that is achieved by trading with dictatorships, so be it: if by obstructing neutral states from aligning with a hostile power bloc, including through democratic routes, so be it. Naturally, the winners at games like these are the states with the more powerful militaries.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Current events Pat494 The Foyer 44 May 1, 2013 6:11am
Events Calander? Zenda General Trading Chat 2 Dec 10, 2009 11:17am
New, Speeches and other events? PKFFW General Trading Chat 1 Apr 1, 2008 9:26am
Events log. sqky Economic & Fundamental Analysis 0 Jun 21, 2007 11:36am
events pssonice Technical Analysis 140 Apr 17, 2007 10:22am

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)