Capitalism

This is a discussion on Capitalism within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; If you are old and frail don't go to capitalist havens like Newport Beach, 'cos if you do and happen ...

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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:03am   #31
 
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If you are old and frail don't go to capitalist havens like Newport Beach, 'cos if you do and happen to fall over, hhiusa's buddies are more likely to step over you than waste a buck calling an ambulance. Hhiusa would from what he says probably not bother to even lift his leg to step over you . He might to pee on ya though if you look sort of poor. ( I haven't forgotten that US citizens have the dubious distinction of topping the list of Nationalities peeing in the hotel pool.)

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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:09am   #32
 
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Capitalists put mere money first ( except for themselves ) while decent people put people including others first.

Pure capitalism is heartless
Pure socialism is brainless

A decent mix is fortunately the lot of most people.

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Love your own area.
Long live NIMBYISM

for quality of life.

The Westcountry is being overrun with
grotty new estates
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:42am   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
Capitalists put mere money first ( except for themselves ) while decent people put people including others first.

Pure capitalism is heartless
Pure socialism is brainless

A decent mix is fortunately the lot of most people.

At least we know you can't make a logical argument with repeated ad hominem arguments and appeal to emotion fallacies.
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:43am   #34
 
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Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Agree

Capitalism on its own as many downsides - as does Socialism - that's why you need the good parts of both "camps" to be able to come up with a better - improved method.

The main problem though is many look at the two "camps" being set in stone - and therefore cannot be integrated to work as one .

Maybe n_t is covering this part more - as he seems to be deep into theory - but with so much bias.

When he quotes many present economies are nearer to Fascism than Capitalism - i would love to know which economies he is talking about - in the US the buck is both King and Queen and big business controls the Government and co and Goldmans Sachs and a few others control the Fed.

Big strong government can be as bad as big strong Google or Apple or Microsoft - a countries rules and laws need to be strong enough to control all within in - and that means if a top government official breaks the law in a major way - he will be sentenced to punishment in prison - in the same way a top Banker should be if he does a similar crime.

In a true democracy - we vote for the type of government we want

However we have no say in the owner of the next new super conglomerate - ie the next Google etc and so we are so dependent on the founder and the owner and the main management team having true integrity,honesty and accountability to keep capitalism back on the straight and narrow

More to follow


Regards


F
You are obviously not replying to me as you have not address a single thing I have said.
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:56am   #35
 
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If you are old and frail don't go to capitalist havens like Newport Beach, 'cos if you do and happen to fall over, hhiusa's buddies are more likely to step over you than waste a buck calling an ambulance.
Well the average age for Newport Beach is 35. It is a capitalist's paradise. The police are more likely to ticket out of towners and foreigners.

Vive la Californie!
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 11:57am   #36
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You are obviously not replying to me as you have not address a single thing I have said.
As a "Capitalist" and leader - I only work to my agenda

Once I have that laid out - I then answer the counter arguments

Remember strength, power and having the "edge" on your side normally wins in the end - and what is wrong with that ?

Seems fair to me ;-))

Regards


F
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 12:15pm   #37
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
Capitalists put mere money first ( except for themselves ) while decent people put people including others first.

Pure capitalism is heartless
Pure socialism is brainless

A decent mix is fortunately the lot of most people.


Very true yes... Like to also add;


Being rich doesn't make one clever or smart.
Being poor doesn't make one stupid or dumb.

Associating money with success is one of the fallacies of life. As one good old rich body once said; Money may not get you happiness but it allows one to live miserably in comfort.

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Old Jun 28, 2015, 12:19pm   #38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
As a "Capitalist" and leader - I only work to my agenda

Once I have that laid out - I then answer the counter arguments

Remember strength, power and having the "edge" on your side normally wins in the end - and what is wrong with that ?

Seems fair to me

Regards


F
Almost all things in this world function in a Darwinian manner. If a neuron is not being used enough, pulling its weight in essence, it will not receive the neurotrophin nerve growth factor (NGF). Neurons that have NGF withdrawal, will undergo apoptosis - programmed cell death. Basically, the neuron is told to commit suicide so that it can be used to build more connections between existing neurons.

Dominant genes knock out recessive genes. This is why I find fair blue eyes more appealing.

Weaker and smaller companies are acquired by conglomerates.

Survival of the fittest is programmed into all things.

Poverty and genes
http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-sho...verty-genetic/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3975540/
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 12:48pm   #39
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Forexmospherian started this thread I have over my business career partnered with many different types of businessman - all very entrepreneurial - some mega rich - ie a billionaire - - two just multi millionaires ( $20m and $250m) and two others not quite multi millionaires - all what you would term Capitalist - as they place profits as maybe top of the list - or certainly in the top three

The relationships lasted from under 18 months to one that made 7 years.

One of the business relationship only lasted about 3 years. This guy started life as a chartered accountant - worked for PWC in America for 3 years and Saudi Arabia for 2 year. He was a really sharp cookie - He had got a first at Cambridge and soon climbed the career ladder very quickly - but always knew before he was 30 yrs old he wanted to take charge and own his own businesses.

When I met him he was in his late 40's and very successful - he had sold out one of his companies the previous years and was looking for new ventures and he had already been a sleeping partner in one of my earlier ventures.

Being an ex accountant and brilliant networker he was close to others in the business who handled company wind-ups / receiverships. He had the chance to purchase a limited company with a 15 year history that owned 12 garages in the south of the UK - with annual turnover of of over £140 million - normal debts - that needed being secured ( maybe £3 million ) and it was losing at that time approx over £120k - per month.

He could do the deal for just £1 ( Yes - one pound ) as long as he secured the immediate £3 million debts on key creditors including the HMRC for over half a million. He had less than 7 days to make a decision and wanted to see what I thought - ( I don't know why - because even though I thought i was fairly sharp and streetwise - i was just not in his league )

To cut a long story - to just a brief summary - before i tell you some of the tricks he got up to - he completed - kept on 4 profitable garages and expanded then - closed down 8 garages putting over 300 people out of work - and then sold the land on for large profits .

I think on one garage he closed down in the South of London that had over 2 acres of land - he made over £3 million on just that on the land sale - I don't know what he made on the other 7 - but I am sure not as much

As you can imagine - he worked hard on the project - was brilliant at thinking out of the box and was able to craftily dodge most of the debts -( even most of it to the HMRC ) he did not break the redundancy laws with the 300 staff that lost their jobs - but instead of having to pay out over £1.4 million redundancy payments he got way under £400k.

He moved the rules to favour him - he even was faced with physical abuse as well as loads of verbal abuse - but he was a "toughie" ( in the true sense as well being 6ft 5inches and over 22 stone in weight).

Now a question to ask yourself - would you want to be associated with this type of businessman ??

A very successful - rich and clever entrepreneur - was he maybe in the minority? - giving Capitalism a bad name and 90% of all other entrepreneurs being advised would not have pulled off these tactics ??

Look forward to your thoughts ?


Regards


F
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 12:59pm   #40
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Originally Posted by hhiusa View Post
Almost all things in this world function in a Darwinian manner. If a neuron is not being used enough, pulling its weight in essence, it will not receive the neurotrophin nerve growth factor (NGF). Neurons that have NGF withdrawal, will undergo apoptosis - programmed cell death. Basically, the neuron is told to commit suicide so that it can be used to build more connections between existing neurons.

Dominant genes knock out recessive genes. This is why I find fair blue eyes more appealing.

Weaker and smaller companies are acquired by conglomerates.

Survival of the fittest is programmed into all things.

Poverty and genes
http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-sho...verty-genetic/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3975540/
Interesting

I have sky blue eyes - and at the age of 62 - neither require reading glasses or glasses for driving etc. I have never wanted to wear glasses - as always been sporty - and have been able to improve my own eyesight over the last 5 years - using techniques that are used on fighter pilots who require the very best eyesight possible. My Optician friends don't normally talk about these techniques - I wonder why - lol

Off for Sunday Lunch - back later
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 1:02pm   #41
 
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A very successful - rich and clever entrepreneur - was he maybe in the minority? - giving Capitalism a bad name and 90% of all other entrepreneurs being advised would not have pulled off these tactics ??


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just the sort of heartless swine who encourages revolutionaries.

__________________
Love your own area.
Long live NIMBYISM

for quality of life.

The Westcountry is being overrun with
grotty new estates
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 4:57pm   #42
 
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Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
A very successful - rich and clever entrepreneur - was he maybe in the minority? - giving Capitalism a bad name and 90% of all other entrepreneurs being advised would not have pulled off these tactics ??


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just the sort of heartless swine who encourages revolutionaries.

As if that makes any kind of sense.

What is with your use of

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Old Jun 28, 2015, 5:11pm   #43
 
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The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control.
- Ayn Rand

Basically, capitalism allows for all other types of force including monopolistic practices except for brute physical force.
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“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 7:33pm   #44
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Forexmospherian started this thread Weak government is exploited by clever capitalism

If you want examples - just ask Goldman Sachs how they do it for their clients.

You need the best brains on both sides of the two groups . Normally best brains follow money

You need powerful governments to control powerful Capitalist - unfortunately over the past 50 yrs or so - there as been no contest. Normally governments play by the rules ( maybe not in Russia and some other communist countries ) but large Capitalist groups are able to navigate around the normal rules - and near enough write their own

You have said of socialism - quote -

Socialism has the worst kind of greed - laziness and entitlement mixed with greed.

Do you honestly think that a work shy lazy man on benefits can do the same damage as my ex friend who bought the garage chain and made 300+ people redundant - just so he could make a few extra million - when he did really need the money anyway ? - whereas the work shy lazy guy on benefits only needs enough to stay alive and maybe kill himself dabbling in drink and drugs ?

The effect on your fellow human beings in a town or a state surely as some importance to Capitalists ??

I think you know were I am coming from - but you will "stone wall " it - that's no problem - I have loads of different examples - its finding the ones that might cause you to look at things from another direction

Regards


F
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Old Jun 28, 2015, 8:20pm   #45
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Weak government is exploited by clever capitalism

If you want examples - just ask Goldman Sachs how they do it for their clients.

You need the best brains on both sides of the two groups . Normally best brains follow money

You need powerful governments to control powerful Capitalist - unfortunately over the past 50 yrs or so - there as been no contest. Normally governments play by the rules ( maybe not in Russia and some other communist countries ) but large Capitalist groups are able to navigate around the normal rules - and near enough write their own

You have said of socialism - quote -

Socialism has the worst kind of greed - laziness and entitlement mixed with greed.

Do you honestly think that a work shy lazy man on benefits can do the same damage as my ex friend who bought the garage chain and made 300+ people redundant - just so he could make a few extra million - when he did really need the money anyway ? - whereas the work shy lazy guy on benefits only needs enough to stay alive and maybe kill himself dabbling in drink and drugs ?

The effect on your fellow human beings in a town or a state surely as some importance to Capitalists ??

I think you know were I am coming from - but you will "stone wall " it - that's no problem - I have loads of different examples - its finding the ones that might cause you to look at things from another direction

Regards


F
That is the epitome of an argumentum ad consequentiam statement. Appealing to good consequences does not make a valid statement. Government does not need to control capitalism. The only restraint upon capitalism should the be the use of brute force.

As for your friend, good business is good business. It is the responsibility of the employee's responsibility to remain valuable. Getting an education or becoming your own boss is a way to avoid that.
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