Capitalism

This is a discussion on Capitalism within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Originally Posted by Pat494 There was a sighting of cowboy on Friday. He went swimming. The coast was clear at ...

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Old Jul 13, 2015, 11:39am   #256
 
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Originally Posted by Pat494 View Post
There was a sighting of cowboy on Friday. He went swimming.

The coast was clear at Huntington Beach today, as a 24-hour “shark sighting” closure of one of America’s most-popular beaches ended.

The beach was re-opened to the public at 8 a.m. today, said Marine Safety Lt. Claude Panis.

And at noon, another lifeguard said there have been no further sightings of sharks today along Huntington Beach.

On Friday, a surfer Friday described “boiling” water around him, and spotted the shark, which he described as 5 to 8 feet in length. It damaged his board.

Lifeguards then ordered everyone out of the ocean.
How ridiculous. You cannot even get that right. What a completely extraneous post.

Anyways, I do not live in Huntington Beach and do not like even driving through there.
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 8:46pm   #257
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Forexmospherian started this thread Hi hhiusa

I appreciate we cannot really compete with you on about subjects like biochemistry etc as I understand that's one of the subjects you are majoring in at University ( I think)

I am keen to understand more why you think the rules of the jungle and the Lion and the Cheetah etc should still be allowed to flourish in a Capitalist society.

Surely we are more advanced and knowledgeable today than we were 50 - 100 - 500 -1000 years ago - in fact every invention over the last 250 yrs can be and as been improved and is still not purely the same as in its initial conception.

The rules of the jungle are very old and can be improved by 21st Century humans.

For example - you quite rightly compare strength, intelligence, experience etc playing an important part in successful businesses and they go on to grow and take over the smaller businesses that don't possess all the qualities of the larger businesses - ( ie more money and success).

You then compare it in human beings - but this is the flawed part - ie

Please tell me who is the Lion and who is the Deer in this modern jungle of today -

Person A - a very successful 35 yr old very good looking male - extremely clever - owning several companies employing 500 + people - worth millions and on his way to collect his new Bugatti Veyron.

Person B - a 18 year old unemployed male of foreign decent -skinny - ugly etc - no family - no education - no money - living in a squat - with a mental illness who cannot afford to pay for his correct medication and massively depressed due to his only friend - a dog dying yesterday.

OK - so who is the Lion or Cheetah - Person A or Person B ?




They then meet on the sidewalk / path as the Person A drives his car from the garage and Person B happens to be in the way.

Person A opens his window and shouts as Person B to move . An argument develops and within 5 mins Person A is shot dead from one single bullet into his chest.

This would not happen in the jungle - Lions, Cheetahs , Deer etc - don't carry "guns"

The Lion would always win in the jungle against a Deer.

The "jungle" is not the same as 21st Century life

It cannot and should not be compared to 21st Century "Capitalism" and of course in "civilised" countries - only a very very small percentage of "baddies" have guns - maybe our worry in the UK is more with "knives" although just carrying one can be up to a 5 yr jail sentence.

Life will never be perfect - Capitalism and Socialism both have their strengths and weaknesses - but they both can be improved and controlled rather than exist in a "jungle" or in the "wild west" situation that you look upon as being free and natural environment

21st century Humans can change nature

Finally and slightly off topic but just out of interest - what is your opinion on complete head transplants within the next 5 years ??

Regards

F
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 9:24pm   #258
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Hi hhiusa

I appreciate we cannot really compete with you on about subjects like biochemistry etc as I understand that's one of the subjects you are majoring in at University ( I think)

I am keen to understand more why you think the rules of the jungle and the Lion and the Cheetah etc should still be allowed to flourish in a Capitalist society.
Keen to understand why you say? Read post #249 again. I have not compared it to a jungle. You have the faulty inductive leap into the jungle. I used one aspect of the jungle, namely predator-prey interactions. There is also a fallacy of composition in there. A premise that holds true some part of the whole, does not necessarily hold true for the whole.

Inductive Reasoning - Stanford University
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-inductive/
The fallacies of composition and division occur when the properties of parts and composites are mistakenly thought to be transferable from one to the other. Consider the two sentences:

Every member of the investigative team was an excellent researcher.
It was an excellent investigative team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Surely we are more advanced and knowledgeable today than we were 50 - 100 - 500 -1000 years ago - in fact every invention over the last 250 yrs can be and as been improved and is still not purely the same as in its initial conception.

The rules of the jungle are very old and can be improved by 21st Century humans.
What does supposedly being more advanced have to do with the argument. Just because we have moved forward in time does not mean that what is new, is better. Being 21st century humans as you put it has no bearing upon this argument. It is a fallacy of novelty.

Example:

Bill: Hey, did you hear we have a new operating system out now? It is better than anything else out there because we just released it!

Steve: What’s it called?

Bill: Windows Vista!

Steve: Sounds wonderful! I can’t wait until all of your users install it on all their computers!

Explanation: For anyone who went through the experience of Vista, this fallacy should hit very close to home. You were most likely assuming that you were getting a superior product to your old operating system -- you were thinking “upgrade” when, in fact, those who stuck with the status quo (Windows XP) were much better off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
For example - you quite rightly compare strength, intelligence, experience etc playing an important part in successful businesses and they go on to grow and take over the smaller businesses that don't possess all the qualities of the larger businesses - ( ie more money and success).

You then compare it in human beings - but this is the flawed part - ie

Please tell me who is the Lion and who is the Deer in this modern jungle of today
That is pretty bad if you have to ask who the Cheetah is, unless that was rhetorical.

You have made many statement without any explanation whilst telling me I am flawed. I want to say what is flawed. Use your critical reasoning skills. Anyone say it is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Person A - a very successful 35 yr old very good looking male - extremely clever - owning several companies employing 500 + people - worth millions and on his way to collect his new Bugatti Veyron.

Person B - a 18 year old unemployed male of foreign decent -skinny - ugly etc - no family - no education - no money - living in a squat - with a mental illness who cannot afford to pay for his correct medication and massively depressed due to his only friend - a dog dying yesterday.

OK - so who is the Lion or Cheetah - Person A or Person B ?
Asked and answered. Nietzsche's master slave philosophy answers this as I have stated. You are arguing based upon good intentions. "There are no moral phenomena at all, only moral interpretations of phenomena."

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
They then meet on the sidewalk / path as the Person A drives his car from the garage and Person B happens to be in the way.

Person A opens his window and shouts as Person B to move . An argument develops and within 5 mins Person A is shot dead from one single bullet into his chest.

This would not happen in the jungle - Lions, Cheetahs , Deer etc - don't carry "guns"
This is extraneous and fails to meet the analogy in any way. There are some flaws I could point out but I do not want to have this conversation derailed by them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
The Lion would always win in the jungle against a Deer.

The "jungle" is not the same as 21st Century life

It cannot and should not be compared to 21st Century "Capitalism" and of course in "civilised" countries - only a very very small percentage of "baddies" have guns - maybe our worry in the UK is more with "knives" although just carrying one can be up to a 5 yr jail sentence.

Life will never be perfect - Capitalism and Socialism both have their strengths and weaknesses - but they both can be improved and controlled rather than exist in a "jungle" or in the "wild west" situation that you look upon as being free and natural environment

21st century Humans can change nature
You are very good at saying what you think the world should be like, without saying why or substantiating your statements.

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Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Finally and slightly off topic but just out of interest - what is your opinion on complete head transplants within the next 5 years ??
I will answer when you have an educated question to ask.
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 10:14pm   #259
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Forexmospherian started this thread OK

I can simplify more as I just cannot stand all these old "works" - like Nietzsche's master slave philosophy study - that guys flawed for a start lol

Is suffering a physical pain like breaking an arm or leg - good or bad ?

Is physical joy like having a intense orgasm whilst enjoying sex - is that good or bad ?

Is having friends who are from different countries/ different age groups / different skin colours and from different lifestyles - good or bad ??

Is it good or bad to want your "friends" to be happy and enjoy life ?

Is it good or bad to help them ??

I appreciate you say you think you cannot put a value of "fairness" - or measure it - but you see this is were we differ - in the real world and not in some old philosophy theory of over 200 yrs ago - we have moved on

I agree with you about Windows Vista but I can list 99% of all technological improvements come with time - ie my Motorola portable cell phone of over 25 yrs ago is not as good as an Iphone 5 or 6 - Fords compact cars of today are better then the Model T Ford - my colour 50 in wide screen TV is better than the TV I had 20 yrs ago - the latest Cannondale mountain bike is better than one of 20 yrs ago - the latest rape laws in the UK are better than 25 yrs ago - but you are now going to question how you measure improvements etc - but everything is measurable.

See if my arguments have flaws - as far as I am concerned - you could drive a steam roller through yours because yours are just flawed theoretical studies mainly written by guys who also suffered with major flaws themselves.

ie - http://www.livescience.com/20713-gen...connected.html

Its a shame - i said I would watch a film with my wife now - so will have to substantiate my statements another time

With regards to "head transplants" that was a serious question ?


Regards


F
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 10:44pm   #260
 
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Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
OK

I can simplify more as I just cannot stand all these old "works" - like Nietzsche's master slave philosophy study - that guys flawed for a start lol

Is suffering a physical pain like breaking an arm or leg - good or bad ?

Is physical joy like having a intense orgasm whilst enjoying sex - is that good or bad ?

Is having friends who are from different countries/ different age groups / different skin colours and from different lifestyles - good or bad ??

Is it good or bad to want your "friends" to be happy and enjoy life ?

Is it good or bad to help them ??

I appreciate you say you think you cannot put a value of "fairness" - or measure it - but you see this is were we differ - in the real world and not in some old philosophy theory of over 200 yrs ago - we have moved on

I agree with you about Windows Vista but I can list 99% of all technological improvements come with time - ie my Motorola portable cell phone of over 25 yrs ago is not as good as an Iphone 5 or 6 - Fords compact cars of today are better then the Model T Ford - my colour 50 in wide screen TV is better than the TV I had 20 yrs ago - the latest Cannondale mountain bike is better than one of 20 yrs ago - the latest rape laws in the UK are better than 25 yrs ago - but you are now going to question how you measure improvements etc - but everything is measurable.

See if my arguments have flaws - as far as I am concerned - you could drive a steam roller through yours because yours are just flawed theoretical studies mainly written by guys who also suffered with major flaws themselves.

ie - http://www.livescience.com/20713-gen...connected.html

Its a shame - i said I would watch a film with my wife now - so will have to substantiate my statements another time

With regards to "head transplants" that was a serious question ?


Regards


F
1. That's a convenient excuse. You never substantiate your claims anyway.
2. In the real world, there is a thing logic that educated people when forming arguments. The real world does not revolve around pixie dust and fantasies about equality.
3. Rape laws have nothing to do with cspitalism but you love incindiary statements with no purpose.
4. Head transplants? You, who knows very little about medicine cites one article and thinks he understands it.
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 11:53pm   #261
 
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All Facts -


....

So we all know Capitalism as its faults - but there again nothing is perfect

...


F


I thought your trading system was.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 12:11am   #262
 
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All were missing here is Minnie Driver.



How d'ya like them apples.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 12:28am   #263
 
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Originally Posted by Forexmospherian View Post
Life will never be perfect - Capitalism and Socialism both have their strengths and weaknesses - but they both can be improved and controlled rather than exist in a "jungle" or in the "wild west" situation that you look upon as being free and natural environment
Capitalism doesn't have any inherent weaknesses, rather it's the natural outcome that you find distasteful. The fact that you think they both need to be 'controlled' shows that you don't even understand what this argument is about!
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 8:43am   #264
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Hi Forexmospehrian,

May I say some great posts of yours here and I have been reviewing your trading thread with delight. (A hell of a lot of pages though ) With regards to head transplants (although off topic here) - They have successfully carried this out already on primates so we know it can be done. I wouldn't put money on it being the next 5 years though. Not even in 20 years. The main problem would be from people opposing similar in style to when the first face transplant was carried out.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 9:42am   #265
 
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Capitalism doesn't have any inherent weaknesses, rather it's the natural outcome that you find distasteful. The fact that you think they both need to be 'controlled' shows that you don't even understand what this argument is about!

Do you know what Capitalism is?

Are you suggesting the only weakness capitalism has is external?


Nothing has any inherent weakness if you consider it for what it is! Steel has no no inherent weaknesses for what it is but leave it outside and expose it to a few minor elements that don't amount to much and it will rust away.


You blinkered stubborn mule

The mind boggles...
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 10:19am   #266
 
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Some plonker from Manchester pays 49 million for some plonker from Liverpool.

Capitalism.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 11:42am   #267
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Originally Posted by new_trader View Post
Capitalism doesn't have any inherent weaknesses, rather it's the natural outcome that you find distasteful. The fact that you think they both need to be 'controlled' shows that you don't even understand what this argument is about!
The irony is the fact you made that statement with a face like this

What are you advocating your position to be now? The new breed of Capitalist Anarchist?

I'm bored.

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Old Jul 14, 2015, 11:56am   #268
 
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Hi Forexmospehrian,

May I say some great posts of yours here and I have been reviewing your trading thread with delight. (A hell of a lot of pages though ) With regards to head transplants (although off topic here) - They have successfully carried this out already on primates so we know it can be done. I wouldn't put money on it being the next 5 years though. Not even in 20 years. The main problem would be from people opposing similar in style to when the first face transplant was carried out.
There is a great deal of complexity in the difference between doing it on a monkey and doing it on humans. That's like building a volcano for a grade school project and then thinking you know everything there is to know about volcanoes. Not likely. Although, I am in agreement with you @Anon1 about it taking more than 20 years.

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Do you know what Capitalism is?

Are you suggesting the only weakness capitalism has is external?

Nothing has any inherent weakness if you consider it for what it is! Steel has no no inherent weaknesses for what it is but leave it outside and expose it to a few minor elements that don't amount to much and it will rust away.

You blinkered stubborn mule

The mind boggles...
You are the rudest stupid person on this board. You only posit arguments, if one could call them that by mudslinging and calling people names. If you have anything intelligent to say, then by all means, do so. Did you even notice how @new_trader never calls anyone names. He also manages to stay on topic and posts his own arguments instead of only tearing apart others.

1. Steel does have an inherent weakness.
2. Not all steel rusts as there is stainless and carbon steel, which differ by the amount of chromium they possess. Chromium plays a dominant role in reacting with oxygen to form this corrosion product film. In fact, all stainless steels by definition contain at least 10 percent chromium.
3. There are inherent properties of steel that could be considered inherent weaknesses or strength such as coefficient of thermal expansion, plasticity and tensile strength.
4. Steel has an increase in plasticity at the cost of tensile strength. Since I am sure you do not know this, judging from your comment, plasticity is the ability to bend without deformation and return to its original state. The greater the tensile strength, the more force that can be imparted upon it. Things with greater tensile strength are prone to shattering like carbon fiber.

Your ignorance in all things never ceases to amaze me. I am sure new_trader feels the same way.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 12:17pm   #269
 
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There is a great deal of complexity in the difference between doing it on a monkey and doing it on humans. That's like building a volcano for a grade school project and then thinking you know everything there is to know about volcanoes. Not likely. Although, I am in agreement with you @Anon1 about it taking more than 20 years.



You are the rudest stupid person on this board. You only posit arguments, if one could call them that by mudslinging and calling people names. If you have anything intelligent to say, then by all means, do so. Did you even notice how @new_trader never calls anyone names. He also manages to stay on topic and posts his own arguments instead of only tearing apart others.

1. Steel does have an inherent weakness.
2. Not all steel rusts as there is stainless and carbon steel, which differ by the amount of chromium they possess. Chromium plays a dominant role in reacting with oxygen to form this corrosion product film. In fact, all stainless steels by definition contain at least 10 percent chromium.
3. There are inherent properties of steel that could be considered inherent weaknesses or strength such as coefficient of thermal expansion, plasticity and tensile strength.
4. Steel has an increase in plasticity at the cost of tensile strength. Since I am sure you do not know this, judging from your comment, plasticity is the ability to bend without deformation and return to its original state. The greater the tensile strength, the more force that can be imparted upon it. Things with greater tensile strength are prone to shattering like carbon fiber.

Your ignorance in all things never ceases to amaze me. I am sure new_trader feels the same way.

For an educated person I find you remarkably obtuse and stupid too.

You don't answer questions but only reply about **** which you think you know about. However, you don't because it's obvious your application leaves much to be desired. You are a malfunctioning human specimen. Applied intelligence is not your strong point. Like a computer with disk and memory but no CPU. Useless piece of sh!t.

In my jungle you wouldn't survive a day let alone a week. Now get lost and suck up to some other white supremacist who may give you some of his c0ck and BS.
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Old Jul 14, 2015, 12:20pm   #270
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Forexmospherian started this thread Morning hhiusa

I do agree with you here that new_trader does stay on topic and tries to keep the discussions focused on the main subject Capitalism

I do think though what frustrates many of the other contributors is that you are both great theorists and maybe "ideologists" - but in the real world so many other factors play a part - many that you just seem to dismiss as being unimportant.

Theory and reality - don't always meet up and agree

That's why Capitalism in its "raw format" as many flaws - and if you are in favour of keeping it it is raw format - then so many other important " non economic" factors of life suffer badly.

Will be trying to explain more later on today - but meanwhile after lunch - back to trading

Both of you have a good day


Regards


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