IRAN WMD Watch Movin Up The List

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Is this going to be a case of Deja Vu?

The west do not seem too pleased with fellow nations of this planet tooling up with some serious firepower.

One things for sure we can count on some serious finger pointing over the coming months. Game On.
 

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why shouldnt iran be allowed to develop nukes?

israel was allowed to develop them under the table, so why not iran as well?

if you look at the number of un and human rights violations committed by israel vs iran, and the record of aggressive actions to neighbouring territories, it is easy to see that israel is the greater danger and more likely to use them.

sure iran is a volatile place, and its not ideal letting them have them, but if we are going to let israel get away with it, then we should be fair and let iran have them too. otherwise the middle east just feels victimised and will fuel terrorism.

if i had my way though, id roll in the tanks to israel, take away their wmd's, give paletine their land back, restore world peace, then make sure iran dont get them either.

problem solved.
 
hmm, I can see the west continuing the capitalisation across the planet, therefore they must neutralise any perceived threat at all costs. how could they risk it against a people who do not want that at all costs, and what if these people had a very good weapon,would they see any choice, I think they would rather go out trying big time?

would it remain a localised exchange between israel and Iran? (how localised can these things be these days) I can see a nuke as a very big bargaining chip its only time before demands would surfice tensions hightened and no fear, launch. pre emptive tactics stemming from middle east.

problem just beginning.

I think the agencies say that the next few years are going to be the time of current mans greatest risk to date. but they do like to install fear . heres to peace.
 
Now Imagine the frenzy when the Israelis say " we're gonna wipe out Palestine and Iran" !
 
millsy500 said:
Now Imagine the frenzy when the Israelis say " we're gonna wipe out Palestine....." !

that will be really worth watching, as Israesl IS Palestine.

If my history serves me right, Palestine was annexed to give post-war jews a place to live in security.
the Palestinians were simply shuffled off the map, and brushed under the carpet of history.

Why dont we annex Florida, and give it to the Palestinians for their homeland ?
would the UK then call americans fighting for "reclamation of their land" terrorists ?
 
trendie said:
that will be really worth watching, as Israesl IS Palestine.

If my history serves me right, Palestine was annexed to give post-war jews a place to live in security.
the Palestinians were simply shuffled off the map, and brushed under the carpet of history.

Why dont we annex Florida, and give it to the Palestinians for their homeland ?
would the UK then call americans fighting for "reclamation of their land" terrorists ?

Do the Jews have as much right to be there as palastinians? I can't remember should have listened more in RE i think.

The Jews don't seem to have much luck do they, Germans and Arabs trying to exterminate them, Who'd be a jew hey?

So blowing innocent adults and children to very small pieces is fine is it?
 
millsy500 said:
Do the Jews have as much right to be there as palastinians? I can't remember should have listened more in RE i think.

The Jews don't seem to have much luck do they, Germans and Arabs trying to exterminate them, Who'd be a jew hey?

So blowing innocent adults and children to very small pieces is fine is it?

this is going the same way as the other "Iraq" "London" threads.

At NO TIME did I say anyone has a greater right than another to live anywhere.
( except of course, if they are asylum-seekers, and they move into YOUR neighbourhood )
At NO TIME did I say anyone has the right to blow up "innocent adults and children to very small pieces".
( unless of course you are "liberating" them from a brutal dictator, then of course its ok, depleted-uranium permitting )

I am merely pointing out that Palestinians were simply removed from their land, and had their rights removed. You need only check your modern history to verify this.
I was making the point that if someone was told that their land was being annexed, some may decide to fight to re-take it.

You CANNOT shed tears about "innocent kiddies being killed" then turn a blind eye to daisy-cutter bombs being used.
You CANNOT cry "unfair" when western hostages are killed, and services are held for ONE person, and then carry on as normal when a misplaced bomb blows up a a building wiping out 18 people, ( including "kiddies" ).

My point is that killing is killing. And all killing should be denounced. Not just when "our kind" get killed. Otherwise, you get precisely the this-person-is-more-valuable-than-this-person that ends up with people having to wear yellow-stars on their clothing.
 
millsy500 said:
Now Imagine the frenzy when the Israelis say " we're gonna wipe out Palestine and Iran" !


err.... i think they are trying to, and have almost succeeded with palestine already.
 
trendie said:
that will be really worth watching, as Israesl IS Palestine.

If my history serves me right, Palestine was annexed to give post-war jews a place to live in security.
the Palestinians were simply shuffled off the map, and brushed under the carpet of history.

Why dont we annex Florida, and give it to the Palestinians for their homeland ?
would the UK then call americans fighting for "reclamation of their land" terrorists ?

Don't know how accurate this is but I found it interesting:-

www.masada2000.org/historical.html
 
millsy500 said:
.....

So blowing innocent adults and children to very small pieces is fine is it?

yep.

i take it you are one of these types who thinks killing someone with a regular army with tanks, grenades etc is fine, but its not fine if someone blows themselves up via a suicide bomb.

as trendie said, killing is killing. its all wrong.

a few decades ago, there was this little tinker called hitler. he wasnt a very nice man:
he built a big wall around the jews to restrict their access creating a ghetto.
he threw them out of their houses and displaced them.
he tore down their houses and local facilities like schools etc
he punished whole families if one member of that family stoop up for themselves.

a few decades later we have israel. guess what they do:
built a big wall around the palestinians to restrict their access creating a ghetto.
threw them out of their houses and displaced them - as they ran out of land, so making room for their own settlers as they invited jews from all over the world to live there.
tore down their houses and local facilities like schools etc with bulldozers
punished whole families if one member of that family stoop up for themselves.

im just wondering how long it will be until we see palestinian death camps. i kid you not. i guess we could say they have already outsourced this to america with camp x-ray etc in cuba where they are now torturing and exterminating those who have been found 'guilty' in a closed court with no access to defence lawyers.
 
trendie said:
this is going the same way as the other "Iraq" "London" threads.

At NO TIME did I say anyone has a greater right than another to live anywhere.
( except of course, if they are asylum-seekers, and they move into YOUR neighbourhood ) whats asylum seekers got to do with what i was saying? your confusing me
At NO TIME did I say anyone has the right to blow up "innocent adults and children to very small pieces". yes you did
( unless of course you are "liberating" them from a brutal dictator, then of course its ok, depleted-uranium permitting )
again confused
I am merely pointing out that Palestinians were simply removed from their land, and had their rights removed. You need only check your modern history to verify this.
I was making the point that if someone was told that their land was being annexed, some may decide to fight to re-take it.
Rights removed, explain
You CANNOT shed tears about "innocent kiddies being killed" then turn a blind eye to daisy-cutter bombs being used. Who's daisy cutting? Israelis then i say defence. Yanks then your getting off track again
You CANNOT cry "unfair" when western hostages are killed, and services are held for ONE person, and then carry on as normal when a misplaced bomb blows up a a building wiping out 18 people, ( including "kiddies" ).
Israelis? again in say defence!
My point is that killing i illing should be denounced. Not just when "our kind" get killed. Otherwise, you get precisely the this-person-is-more-valuable-than-this-person that ends up with people having to wear yellow-stars on their clothing.
I don't agree with any killin whatsover
 
charliechan said:
yep.

i take it you are one of these types who thinks killing someone with a regular army with tanks, grenades etc is fine, but its not fine if someone blows themselves up via a suicide bomb.

as trendie said, killing is killing. its all wrong.

a few decades ago, there was this little tinker called hitler. he wasnt a very nice man:
he built a big wall around the jews to restrict their access creating a ghetto.
he threw them out of their houses and displaced them.
he tore down their houses and local facilities like schools etc
he punished whole families if one member of that family stoop up for themselves.

a few decades later we have israel. guess what they do:
built a big wall around the palestinians to restrict their access creating a ghetto.
threw them out of their houses and displaced them - as they ran out of land, so making room for their own settlers as they invited jews from all over the world to live there.
tore down their houses and local facilities like schools etc with bulldozers
punished whole families if one member of that family stoop up for themselves.

im just wondering how long it will be until we see palestinian death camps. i kid you not. i guess we could say they have already outsourced this to america with camp x-ray etc in cuba where they are now torturing and exterminating those who have been found 'guilty' in a closed court with no access to defence lawyers.


erm no actually.

and i think you forgot about the 6 day war.

Camp xray? when did i mention that?? What you going on about?

Sorry trendie i messed up my replies. My answers are there in between
 
whats the first thing that comes to mind when you read these words... liar liar liar
 
trendie said:
this is going the same way as the other "Iraq" "London" threads.

At NO TIME did I say anyone has a greater right than another to live anywhere.
( except of course, if they are asylum-seekers, and they move into YOUR neighbourhood )
At NO TIME did I say anyone has the right to blow up "innocent adults and children to very small pieces".
( unless of course you are "liberating" them from a brutal dictator, then of course its ok, depleted-uranium permitting )

I am merely pointing out that Palestinians were simply removed from their land, and had their rights removed. You need only check your modern history to verify this.
I was making the point that if someone was told that their land was being annexed, some may decide to fight to re-take it.

You CANNOT shed tears about "innocent kiddies being killed" then turn a blind eye to daisy-cutter bombs being used.
You CANNOT cry "unfair" when western hostages are killed, and services are held for ONE person, and then carry on as normal when a misplaced bomb blows up a a building wiping out 18 people, ( including "kiddies" ).

My point is that killing is killing. And all killing should be denounced. Not just when "our kind" get killed. Otherwise, you get precisely the this-person-is-more-valuable-than-this-person that ends up with people having to wear yellow-stars on their clothing.

Democracy- if that is what our way of life is- cannot allow any other way of life to get ahead of it, otherwise it is doomed. It doesn't matter if the West has atomic weapons, or not. We cannot allow the rest to spout out what it wants to do to us with one hand and develope atomic weapons with the other.

To develope nuclear explosive devices they need a centrifuge, which is not needed for electric energy. They have a centrifuge.

If they have a centrifuge- why?

Moral arguments about "rights" cannot enter into this argument. It's a question of our own survival. Whether Israel has a right to exist is hypothetical. They are there and they have every intention of staying there. The Palestinians must face that fact or the whole Middle East could blow up. Moral arguments are no longer valid.

Them or us? I'm old enough not to have many worries on the matter, but I'm sorry for the future generations. I think that we may as well have trouble now, on our terms, than have it later on theirs.

Split
 
Splitlink said:
Democracy- if that is what our way of life is- cannot allow any other way of life to get ahead of it, otherwise it is doomed. It doesn't matter if the West has atomic weapons, or not. We cannot allow the rest to spout out what it wants to do to us with one hand and develope atomic weapons with the other.

To develope nuclear explosive devices they need a centrifuge, which is not needed for electric energy. They have a centrifuge.

If they have a centrifuge- why?

Moral arguments about "rights" cannot enter into this argument. It's a question of our own survival. Whether Israel has a right to exist is hypothetical. They are there and they have every intention of staying there. The Palestinians must face that fact or the whole Middle East could blow up. Moral arguments are no longer valid.

Them or us? I'm old enough not to have many worries on the matter, but I'm sorry for the future generations. I think that we may as well have trouble now, on our terms, than have it later on theirs.

Split


i see it as keeping up with the jonses syndrome.

they bomb us so were gunna bomb them. tit for tat. there is little hope when dealing with this kind of mentality (israel & palestine).

in this particular case (iran & israel/west), its a case of well they have a bomb, so im gunna get me one too.

although i am not a fan of iran, i cant criticise them for this. ESPECIALLY when you look at israels track record of unprovoked aggression against its neighbours against that of iran. statistically, israel is the greater threat. period.

i think we must take a neutral and fair perspective on this one in order to be fair, just and come to a peaceful conclusion. we have let israel, india and pakistan develop bombs under the table.

the solution is to come down hard on israel. we must take away their ILLEGAL bombs. this will lessen the threat that iran probably feels. we must also stop iran from developing them any further. but we cant let one side have them and not the other.

as a side note, i think bush (the twat) should also drop his pathetic stance on refusing to talk with terrorists. if we hadnt decided to talk with the ira and negotiate, we would still be facing attacks from that lot remember.

while i mention the ira, let us not forget that a lot of the ira's support and financing came from americans. so much for their stance against terror.
 
charliechan said:
i see it as keeping up with the jonses syndrome.

they bomb us so were gunna bomb them. tit for tat. there is little hope when dealing with this kind of mentality (israel & palestine).

in this particular case (iran & israel/west), its a case of well they have a bomb, so im gunna get me one too.

although i am not a fan of iran, i cant criticise them for this. ESPECIALLY when you look at israels track record of unprovoked aggression against its neighbours against that of iran. statistically, israel is the greater threat. period.

No, I don't criticise Iran, either, but I still think that we have to stop them. For decades, since the Shah, we have been listening to their dogma on who Satan is. Their cards are pretty much on the table, as far as I can see, and no other nation, apart from Russia in the old days, has ever been so open in their hatred for us.


i think we must take a neutral and fair perspective on this one in order to be fair, just and come to a peaceful conclusion. we have let israel, india and pakistan develop bombs under the table.

We are not neutral. Our position against terrorism is very clear and I think that being just and fair cannot come into it. This seems to be the position of most of the UN states who view Iran with a wary eye. Even Chirac has warned unmentioned states that France could go nuclear if it was found that any country was behind a terrorist attack on France. Surely, it is better to prevent that happening?

the solution is to come down hard on israel. we must take away their ILLEGAL bombs. this will lessen the threat that iran probably feels. we must also stop iran from developing them any further. but we cant let one side have them and not the other.

Who is going to do that and how?

as a side note, i think bush (the twat) should also drop his pathetic stance on refusing to talk with terrorists. if we hadnt decided to talk with the ira and negotiate, we would still be facing attacks from that lot remember.

while i mention the ira, let us not forget that a lot of the ira's support and financing came from americans. so much for their stance against terror.

You could be right on that but take a hard look at Spain's problem with ETA. No amount of talking has done any good since 1975.

I agree that the US has supported some pretty unsavoury regimes in the past (which Western country is going to throw the first stone here) but that does not mean that we have to put our heads on the block now, as a token of our repentance. We cannot allow any other country to obtain nuclear dominance over us. We have had that experience with Russia and we came out of it well- is that not warning enough?

Split
 
sure - but the deep rooted cause of all this issue is that israel has the bomb, iran doesnt. israel is the aggressor, so iran feels the need to defend itself against them and us.

i dont blame iran - or the arab world for hating us given our bias towards israel - who imo are little better in nature than the nazis. sure the arab world isnt perfect - but thats by our standards. does an arab think hes wrong? no - not in his eyes. its the ignorance on BOTH sides to accept we must live with each others different opinions & religious beliefs.

anyway - we can talk about htis until the cows come home. any one can see that there must be give and take on both sides, but at this stage no one is prepared to do the giving. i think WE should be the ones who sorts israel out to be honest. it is the uk that is partly responsible for the whole palastine/israel thing anyway because when we withdrew from that part of the world we just packed up and left without a tinkers cuss about the friction between the communities there. realistically that is never going to happen though.

the us i doubt will do the right thing either. even if the un came to a sensible agreement on the way forward. the americans would steam roller all over any un decision just like they did with iraq.

all america cares about is cheap oil to pollute the environment, and ensuring there is a starbucks on every street corner of the world.

i dont believe money is evil, but the love of it sure is. america is sure in love with the green back at the expense of everything else that is good in life - maybe bin laden and the other nutter arabs have a point.
 
looking back at the gulf conflict, I think Israel will be backed to the hilt by the US, for the "Owe Me" expected by Israel from refraining from escalation on their part when the scuds were dropping on their doorstep.

Thing is who will likely back Iran, when action or force is used against them if it gets to that and what capacity do any Iranian allies have at their disposal?
 
Israel is the result of an inability by us Brits to stop the jews repopulating that neck of the woods post 1945 as their response to Hitler, and I imagine the centuries of pogroms in the rest of Europe had some bearing also. The Arab nations then tried to erase the fledgling state of Israel, and got a bloody nose each time - Israel by the end of the Yom Kippur war was a pugnacious nation determined that it would never again suffer at the hands of those who think it's okay to kill people who are different to yourself.

Up to that point I have a huge amount of sympathy for the jews and the nation of Israel. Unfortunately (a massive understatement of a word if ever there was one) the Palestinians were treated as pawns by both sides, and suffered the inevitable results of being a relatively powerless group... frankly they've almost become the 'new jews' of the region, and the Arab nations get far more mileage out of palestinian woes than they'd get by absobing those they presumably call brother.

It IS a bit like annexing Florida and populating it with palestinians. I sympathise with Israel, having spent 60 years a heartbeat from anihilation can you really blame them for being doberman like in response to any perceived threat? I also sympathise with palestine - that was their land. However, I cannot but wonder at the inability of the Arab world to absorb this relatively small group - it suggests a political agenda at work when we see them still living the way they are so many decades down the line.

Nukes - it isn't a question of being fair, it is a survival question. With so many in the middle east apparently convinced God is telling them to slaughter the infidel then commonsense dictates we do all we can to ensure they do not obtain weapons that could wipe out cities, or even the world. Arguably the western nation that possess Nukes have demonstrated for the past 60 years that we are not willing to use these weapons to resolve disagreements -why take the chance that a new atomic power would? If they could be 'uninvented' even better.

It's nothing to do with being fair, there simply isn't a single good argument for having the potential to destroy the world - nobody should be able to do that. It is absolutely mindlessly stupid to consider this as a moral or ethical question - it is purely a question of survival... do you let somebody who rants about killing you have more powerful weapons than they already have?
 
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