TheBramble.........Reinstate?

Censorship is without a doubt one of the most irritating outcomes on a public forum, and sends many posters, myself included, seething with anger.

This is particularly true, when, as has been alluded to, there is a perceived bias to specific "posters".

TheBramble was certainly not alone, I have also had "off board" discussions regarding this alleged bias and "protection"

Anyway, in the interests of democracy, or just plain bloody mindedness, a "poll"

Bwing Bwack Bwamble......................Reinstate with all sins expunged.

cheers d998

Why should special treatment be given to this guy ?

Because he's your mate Ducky ??

If he has been banned then no doubt he deserves it and should not be accorded special treatment.

But Salty, is 'special tretment' anything new on T2W?

We like Bramble. Bring him back. PLEASE.

There is a line , there must be a line ,that you do not cross..the line signifies what rational reasonable people can and cannot do in relating to each other..when someone crosses that line..Tony or anyoneelse the door closes and stays closed as a notice not just to that person ,but to all the rest that the line exists...without the line the sometimes mindless interaction we see on here would be completely out of control and any rational discussion would be virtually impossible....given the 'distance' that exists between people using this board I am still at a loss to understand how or why they can let themselves get so emotionally out of control with each other ...the irony must be that taking that ego centred behaviour into the market with you must be a real handicap
For the reasons given above I do think it is important that mods inform why a person is banned if for no other reason to than reinforce the message that the line exists and is being enforced...I have no issues with that.

Neither will I vote in a poll which as far as I can see is simply a bloody minded attempt at 'stirring'...if you want this to be a 'democracy' then buy the bloody business and then you can make all the decisions democratic,but if not use your 'stop' and stop messing around. Consider this poll to be very poor trade selection.

We like Bramble. Bring him back. PLEASE.

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"We" does not include me mate and also does not include a large number of other people that I know.

Democracy is a sham anyway as the vast majority of the electorate ( myself NOT included ) are too stupid and ignorant to appreciate the real issues at stake.

With 95% of so called traders a sorry bunch of losers then I would expect a democratic vote on T2W to be a bigger sham than is the norm.

SALTY,

Why should special treatment be given to this guy ?

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Because unlike some, he had generally something worth saying.

Because he's your mate Ducky ??

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Sure, why not.

If he has been banned then no doubt he deserves it and should not be accorded special treatment.

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Maybe, that applies to many, yet there has been to date a lack of consistency. Can we not be consistently inconsistent?
But, hey register your vote and opinion, you may well be the majority.

CHUMP,

Neither will I vote in a poll which as far as I can see is simply a bloody minded attempt at 'stirring'...if you want this to be a 'democracy' then buy the bloody business and then you can make all the decisions democratic,but if not use your 'stop' and stop messing around. Consider this poll to be very poor trade selection.

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Do I detect an undercurrent in your post?
Of course it's stirring, but sometimes stirring brings all manner of interesting tidbits to the surface, n'est pas?

cheers d998

What puzzles me the most about this poll is... How can anyone vote, when the vast majority of us have absolutely no idea what Bramble has done to warrant getting banned in the first place.

If we don't know the reason, then we are only voting on our general impression of Bramble from past posts, which I don't believe is the point. If Bramble was banned then this it is because he has done something to offend or upset another member, or members, of T2W. I'm sure the Mod's don't ban people on a whim.

So as I have no idea what dear Bramble has done to upset the Mod's then I it's not reasonable to vote either way.

Sorry.

JillyB said:

What puzzles me the most about this poll is... How can anyone vote, when the vast majority of us have absolutely no idea what Bramble has done to warrant getting banned in the first place.

If we don't know the reason, then we are only voting on our general impression of Bramble from past posts, which I don't believe is the point. If Bramble was banned then this it is because he has done something to offend or upset another member, or members, of T2W. I'm sure the Mod's don't ban people on a whim.

So as I have no idea what dear Bramble has done to upset the Mod's then I it's not reasonable to vote either way.

Sorry.

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From the Moderators on another post.....

Bramble has been banned indefinitely. I would not usually feel any need to explain our actions: however Bramble is a long-standing member and I see that people may be confused by his exit, especially in light of his member title glitch.

Briefly, a moderator deleted one or two of his posts in the course of de-cluttering a serious discussion (nothing personal in it, just a regular, often unpopular duty that we perform) and Bramble responded with a surprisingly abusive PM which earned him a ban of a few days. He greeted this news by sending another really quite disgustingly abusive Email to the moderator who then decided on an indefinite ban. This may be hard to believe given his usual jocular style but I have seen the messages and do not see what else we could have done in the circumstances. Abusing the mods is simply not on. Yes, we can take it, of course, but the point is we shouldn't have to.

Why do members get banned? A good question. It is not an action we take lightly and in most cases warnings will be given first. The simple answer is that members are banned for repeated transgressions of our Site Guidelines. In some cases an instant ban is permissible, such as for spammers who spam multiple times from their first post. In my experience all bans have resulted from serial spam or abuse of other members. I am tempted to add "Destroying every serious thread with mindless bickering" but that would be a little draconian.
__________________
Fran

Jilly,
Frugi gave an explanation as to the 'why' on the other thread after I asked "why"..and from the answer given I don't see how they had much choice in doing what they did..perhaps Tony is the one who might benefit from going away and reflecting on what drove him to behave in this extreme way and if he wishes to come back I suspect an approach to TW2 with some undertaking and explanation might get a conditional reprieve..they don't strike me as unreasonable people ...but first and foremost Tony has been demonstrating a 'problem' and actually 'forcing' him to go away to think about it might be the best thing anyone can do for him..if you read this Tony I mean this sincerely

Exactly JillyB

People are voting on whether or not he is a good bloke which is irrelevant.

Hence my point about democracy being a sham.

Most people miss the point entirely.

Maybe the Mods should make public his offending messages so that we can have a more meaningful and, I am sure, more entertaining poll.

Thanks Chump and Capital

From what you have both posted, it seems very reasonable that Bramble has been banned. Being abusive to other members is just not on, be they Mod's or not. For what it's worth, I liked Brambles postson different threads and what's happened seems very much out of character.

I just hope that he reflects on what happened and makes amends with the Mod's.

I am sure that they will treat apologies in the spirit they are given.

And the "Bans" go into the lead by 8-7.

Who needs the Lions when we have excitement like this ?

Members getting banned for absusive PM messages ? Interesting idea.........

Notwithstanding whatever he said in the offending PM, personally i think no longer having Tony contribute will be a big loss to the site

SG - post 2:
If he has been banned then no doubt he deserves it and should not be accorded special treatment?

SG Post 6
Democracy is a sham anyway

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So roll on the dictatorship of the proletariat eh Salty? A superior system of government as clearly demonstrated by 20th Century history.

No doubt? NO DOUBT? No doubt everyone subject to the arbitrary and unaccountable whims of authority deserve everything they get too eh?

JillyB - post 8:
I'm sure the Mod's don't ban people on a whim.

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Your faith in the infallibility of those in authority is touching. Have you ever come across the quote (can't remember the precise attrib) 'All power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely" ?

JillyB post 12.
Being abusive to other members is just not on.

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Of course it isn't. But arbitrating on just what exactly differentiates abusiveness from a fair forceful point driven by exasperation is another matter entirely.

Of course, the providers of a proprietory board can do whatever they like so far as banning, censoring, moderating etc are concerned. If they get it right the board will be a success (however they may define success); if they get it wrong then they'll end up with a load of fawning self-congratulatory sycophants telling each other 'how wonderful we all are' - maybe that would be success of a sort?

OK.

I was the unfortunate recipient of Bramble's very apparent anger, and I'm not afraid to say that I was also the one who made his ban permanent. This came about because I chose to delete a post of his that was replying to a post that had already been deleted (but which TB had obviously been notified of via the email reply system) - hence the subject of his reply was pointless (and antagonistic, more to the point).

I'm sorry, but you'll just have to trust us that we feel we made the right decision for us and for the site. It wasn't done all that lightly, I didn't make the decision wholly alone, and we (the mods) discussed it last week. Initially it was a light-hearted warning, then a more serious warning, and then short ban for both his replies and for breaking the site guidelines(more than once, I might add) - which everyone must adhere to. Bramble's quite frankly OTT reply to my saying I wouldn't restore the post, and his abusive comments were quite unjust - but I still gave him a wide berth. More abuse was forthcoming (all unwarranted, and all over this one reply, apparently). Hence the ban was made permanent, and Bramble - in his own words - "couldn't give a ****".

Everyone agreed with the ban, and I'm sorry to say that short of a wonderfully narrative apology from Bramble, and an explanation for his actions, he won't be coming back.

Peter,
"Of course it isn't. But arbitrating on just what exactly differentiates abusiveness from a fair forceful point driven by exasperation is another matter entirely."...with all respect let's put this into context..this is a trading forum where we exchange info and discuss ideas for the most part with people we have never even met..it does not immutably change our life when what we do here does not go according to what ever expectation we have when we post ...it isn't like going home and finding a member of your family ill ..losing your job...having a car accident any of which might rightly challenge your self control ...so within that context what does it tell you about any individual who allows that self control to go beyond exasperation which we have been informed was the case here ? To be frank if you are at that 'pitch' it might be a boon to have to find a space somewhere to regain your balance.

So roll on the dictatorship of the proletariat eh Salty?

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Most definitely.

A superior system of government as clearly demonstrated by 20th Century history.

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Democracy gave the world George W Bush, one of the nastiest, most evil and most ignorant rulers who has ever lived.

12-7 to the "Bans"

Is it half-time yet ?

Almost 38,000 T2W members now and 19 have voted on this most vital of issues !!

A 0.05% turnout thus far.

Sorry but I just can't take this seriously at all.

I'm with chump on this one, a little perspective is in order here. This is a website, not your country of residence, all this talk about democracy or dictatorship, no-one has to stay here.
View it like your local pub, "the management has the right to blah blah blah......."