The Supreme Court is wrong: ObamaCare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Yep.
Obamacare, or affordable health care, definitely goes against the concepts of caring for those weaker than oneself.
How dare Obama look to alleviate suffering of fellow americans.
How dare he desire to ensure those with illnesses be cared for.

Being good americans, you should leave them out on a hillside in the winter to die.

Comparing the notion we should care those less fortunate to Pearl harbour? :LOL::LOL:
 
trendie said:
Yep.
Obamacare, or affordable health care, definitely goes against the concepts of caring for those weaker than oneself.
How dare Obama look to alleviate suffering of fellow americans.
How dare he desire to ensure those with illnesses be cared for.

Being good americans, you should leave them out on a hillside in the winter to die.

Comparing the notion we should care those less fortunate to Pearl harbour? :LOL::LOL:
Click to expand...

What an utterly dumb post.:rolleyes:

It IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL and another example of big government U.S.S.A encroaching on the rights of the individual. Do you honestly think it's OK for someone with a gun to force you to hand over your money simply because they think someone else needs it more than you do?
 
new_trader said:
What an utterly dumb post.:rolleyes:

It IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL and another example of big government U.S.S.A encroaching on the rights of the individual. Do you honestly think it's OK for someone with a gun to force you to hand over your money simply because they think someone else needs it more than you do?
Click to expand...

Not at all.
No more than I think its ok for someone to hold a gun to my head and take my money and start wars for their own profit.
Tax is a general tax for underlying social advancement.
Vaccination is a good example where people are effectively forced to take drugs without their consent. The over-riding long-term benefits are worth it.

Healthcare in the early stages can prevent much more complex and expensive health concerns later in life.

If you want dumb, just consider the consequences of studies of american children with asthma, malnutrition, etc, and their long terms effects are good examples to be getting on with.
Yep, you got, malnutrition of american kids whilst the USSA spend untold billions on warheads.
 
trendie said:
Not at all.
No more than I think its ok for someone to hold a gun to my head and take my money and start wars for their own profit.
Tax is a general tax for underlying social advancement.
Vaccination is a good example where people are effectively forced to take drugs without their consent. The over-riding long-term benefits are worth it.

Healthcare in the early stages can prevent much more complex and expensive health concerns later in life.

If you want dumb, just consider the consequences of studies of american children with asthma, malnutrition, etc, and their long terms effects are good examples to be getting on with.
Yep, you got, malnutrition of american kids whilst the USSA spend untold billions on warheads.
Click to expand...

Don't muddle up issues. If people want health insurance they should have the CHOICE to buy it for themselves. If I eat and live healthy, which I try to do, I don't smoke and I train regularly at the gym, why should I be forced to care for someone who was a heavy smoker and drinker for most of their life? They have family, friends and the choice to buy health insurance in the free market.

Besides this, Governments have an abysmal track record for doing anything right. War on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror...Like Ronald Reagan said, the nine most dangerous words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
 
Obamacare is a shambles.

Either you go with free market healthcare for everyone or if Government wants involvement, do it NHS style.

What American healthcare faces now is a disaster.
 
new_trader said:
Don't muddle up issues. If people want health insurance they should have the CHOICE to buy it for themselves. If I eat and live healthy, which I try to do, I don't smoke and I train regularly at the gym, why should I be forced to care for someone who was a heavy smoker and drinker for most of their life? They have family, friends and the choice to buy health insurance in the free market.

Besides this, Governments have an abysmal track record for doing anything right. War on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror...Like Ronald Reagan said, the nine most dangerous words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Click to expand...

If you buy health insurance in the US you are still caring for those who don't look after themselves.Insurance companies are charged more than they ordinarily would be to subsidize treatment of medicare patients.

I also believe it is required, through legislation, that hospitals must keep a 'slush fund' to either wholly or partly pay for those who do not have the financial means to do so. That money comes from private payers or insurance companies.

Then there is employment linked insurance which is ok as long as you have a job. But what if you lose it and have a pre-existing condition?

Hence the American system is broken. Now with Obamacare, even more so.

When it comes down to Government just cannot keep it's sticky little fingers out of anything and that is why healthcare in the US is so expensive. On the balance of things I am glad we have the NHS that we do. And I believe in free markets.
 
YouAreNotFree said:
When it comes down to Government just cannot keep it's sticky little fingers out of anything and that is why healthcare in the US is so expensive.
Click to expand...

“If you think health care is expensive now, just wait ‘til you see what it costs when it’s free”
 
The Supreme Court said OBAMAcare is a tax....so that means O enacted the largest tax increase on American citizens in the history of our country and did it during a recession. Genius 1000x over.

Peter
 
new_trader said:
“If you think health care is expensive now, just wait ‘til you see what it costs when it’s free”
Click to expand...

Certainly isn't free. If you don't pay for it you get penalized by having the IRS come to your house and place liens on your property.

Peter
 
wackypete2 said:
Certainly isn't free. If you don't pay for it you get penalized by having the IRS come to your house and place liens on your property.

Peter
Click to expand...

It was a tongue-in-cheek criticism someone once made about the way things become more expensive whenever Governments get involved to make them affordable, right down to and including being Free...ie/Extra taxes, Stealth taxes, reductions in service and quality etc.
 
new_trader said:
It was a tongue-in-cheek criticism someone once made about the way things become more expensive whenever Governments get involved to make them affordable, right down to and including being Free...ie/Extra taxes, Stealth taxes, reductions in service and quality etc.
Click to expand...

LOL, ok. went right over my head :eek:

Peter
 
I think Obamacare is a stupid idea, and wasn't even thought out properly. However, I do find it strange that we have lay commentators with very little knowledge of the intricacies of US law and the constitution criticising some of the best legal minds in the US, i.e. the Supreme Court on legal issues. It's farcical. It's like when someone who can't trade and has no real experience of it, starts schooling you on a trading website despite your many years (or decades) of hard-earned experience. They came to a decision on a legal matter. If they were politically co-erced, fine criticise them for that, but you can't treat these 5 that voted for it as fools on that or any other legal issues. They are a lot more expert than the Schiff Report for a start.
 
Shakone said:
I think Obamacare is a stupid idea, and wasn't even thought out properly. However, I do find it strange that we have lay commentators with very little knowledge of the intricacies of US law and the constitution criticising some of the best legal minds in the US, i.e. the Supreme Court on legal issues. It's farcical. It's like when someone who can't trade and has no real experience of it, starts schooling you on a trading website despite your many years (or decades) of hard-earned experience. They came to a decision on a legal matter. If they were politically co-erced, fine criticise them for that, but you can't treat these 5 that voted for it as fools on that or any other legal issues. They are a lot more expert than the Schiff Report for a start.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is a logical argument based on whether they considered it a tax or penalty and how they arrived at the conclusions and the contradictions when applied in other areas. Also, the idea that the Government can require you to buy something is a very worrying precedent. Many legal experts and ex Judges have said it was clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL and there were 4 judges that said it was UNCONSTITUTIONAL. You don't need to be a legal expert to think that having the death penalty for a parking fine is extreme.
 
I understand new_trader, but the law isn't always logical is it? And there may be many contradictions with other areas, but either the supreme court didn't decide on those issues, or a different supreme court came to a different conclusion or this bunch are just corrupt and were compelled by the president to pass this. It was a close decision. There were 4 that said it wasn't, but more that said it was. Another supreme court in the future might have a different opinion, all it would have taken is one change, but that's the system, right or wrong.

So while I too think it's an extremely dangerous precedent, and while I think this should never have been allowed, what I can't do is say this is unconstitutional, because the greatest experts in this area voted on it, and decided it was.

You can say that you don't need a legal expert to say death penalty is wrong for a parking fine, but you also don't need a legal expert to see that the constitution itself is flawed. Lots of areas in it are just plain wrong by modern standards. That's why you have amendments. Why do they need to resort to such an old and flawed document on so many modern legal issues?
 
"Somewhere in all these dusty law books a great idea got lost; the idea that law is for the people..." - Joel Hyatt, 1985

Peter
 
new_trader said:
“If you think health care is expensive now, just wait ‘til you see what it costs when it’s free”
Click to expand...

Nope.

Per capita spending in the US is more than twice that of the UK to give just one example. And we live longer.

Nobody can know for sure, but I am very confident the US government could deliver free at point of use healthcare, of the same standard in the UK, for all citizens, at a lower cost (per capita basis) than is achieved now.
 
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