EFX Group - Updates

fxtraderjustin

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Hello Everyone -

This is Justin. Sorry if I’ve been away a lot, but things are plenty busy here, as some of you might be able to imagine. But it is time for me to make some comments. I’m just trying to pass along information, and I hope to answer any questions that you might have. At this time, things are very exciting. Allow me to make these points.

1) Our new website is launched. (www.efxgroup.com) Feel free to have a look around. At the bottom of the link following this paragraph, you will find the answers about “Safety of Funds” that states expressly our policy on how client funds are used/held. I feel that this is as straight-forward an answer as we can give. It hits the following points: that your funds are not commingled on a daily basis, that client funds are kept separate from our operating funds, but that in case of something extreme that would take MBTF/EFX under, client funds fall in line per CFTC guidelines. I can tell you that most platforms don’t operate that way. MB has been in business for over a decade, so we feel pretty good about the fact that it would take a “major outside event” to create the extreme situation. We are a very conservative company from an operations perspective, and it has served us well. In the real world, you can never say never, but I just feel that the statement given shows that we are doing things as much in favor of the client as can be expected. The stock side would be no different in terms of firm capital versus risk of customer funds, with the exception of the SIPC insurance level. Here’s the link. http://www.efxgroup.com/deposits.html

2) Here is the main point that I wanted to make today. As many might have surmised, after careful research, we have determined that it is not possible for us to incorporate in the manner that we would like MetaTrader 4 into our platform. We really tried. I can’t express that enough. I have made a concerted effort not to mention any other platform by name on these boards, and I plan to continue to do that. But, let me say this. ANY PLATFORM that is offering MT4 is, by definition of the way that their software works, a deal desk. And, again without mentioning anyone in particular, I think one NON deal desk platform basically bought MT4 with the intent of offering it to clients and realized after the fact that they couldn’t get it to work with their system just like we discovered in our due diligence. But, since they had already bought the license, they tried to take a shortcut and ended up in trouble. Again, I’m speculating a little, but I don’t think it is a reach to see what happened based on what we now know. Let me explain one example of where the issues lie.

When someone is operating a deal desk, the desk either fills your order or doesn’t. That’s it. There is NO SUCH THING in the deal desk world as a “partial fill.” So, let’s say that you are using a system that automates black box trading through an expert advisor type of service. You set a series of parameters where the buying and selling is done based on a moving average crossover with limits within three pips of the crossover occurring. On a NON deal desk system like ours, it is possible to get a partial fill. That is an AUTOMATIC possibility of a non deal desk, because your fill isn’t based on whether we wanted to fill you or not but whether there was enough size there or not. There is only so much available at any price. Most of the time, that amounts to lots of liquidity. But, there are times in a fast market when it doesn’t. So, think about it. You set your black box to trade 20 lots. On one trigger, only 8 get filled. The problem is that MT4 doesn’t know how to account for this. It still wants to close out 20 lots when the sell signal comes in. So, it sells 20 and you are now short 12. That’s a problem. Now, again, I don’t want to point fingers, but we just couldn’t get a lot of cooperation in terms of altering the system to adjust for these sorts of factors, and I’ll just leave it up to all of you to make assumptions of why that might be.

The bottom line, again, is that MT4 works only on deal desk systems, and, as we have discussed ad nauseum on these boards, we simply aren’t one. So we had to pass. Believe me; we realize that a lot of people like MT4. There were a lot of options on the table, such as using our quotes with MT4 but routing orders to a deal desk. That just isn’t where we wanted to go. It’s not how we run our company.

So, that said, what happens now? Well, if you go to the website and look at the front page, the answer lies there. I’m not going to give details at this time, but we are far along in the process. Much further than some might imagine. And BETWEEN here and there, we’ll have some exciting short-term solutions for people, some of which could be announced literally within a matter of weeks. But ultimately, we feel like we will have the exact solution that everyone has always wanted in the Forex markets, and it is coming, not LATE in 2007, but sometime in the New Year.

In the meantime, our Navigator product continues to function well, and we are working hard on making the Forex Pro product into something that Forex-only traders will love. The Navigator is an all-encompassing platform that is built for stock, options, futures, and Forex traders. The Pro will ultimately be very exciting, and let me say now that we haven’t even scratched the surface of what the “wings” or “tabs” will provide. We’re very excited about taking Forex to the next level and being the Forex-dedicated arm of MBTF. I’ll answer questions as I can, but I promise you that anything that says “Hey, tell me about Project Omega” won’t get a big response right now. ;-)

Justin LeBlang
EFX Group
 
Hey Justin,

Good to hear from you again. Just cut your costs and you have got it made. My 2 cents.

fxtraderjustin said:
Hello Everyone -

This is Justin. Sorry if I’ve been away a lot, but things are plenty busy here, as some of you might be able to imagine. But it is time for me to make some comments. I’m just trying to pass along information, and I hope to answer any questions that you might have. At this time, things are very exciting. Allow me to make these points.

1) Our new website is launched. (www.efxgroup.com) Feel free to have a look around. At the bottom of the link following this paragraph, you will find the answers about “Safety of Funds” that states expressly our policy on how client funds are used/held. I feel that this is as straight-forward an answer as we can give. It hits the following points: that your funds are not commingled on a daily basis, that client funds are kept separate from our operating funds, but that in case of something extreme that would take MBTF/EFX under, client funds fall in line per CFTC guidelines. I can tell you that most platforms don’t operate that way. MB has been in business for over a decade, so we feel pretty good about the fact that it would take a “major outside event” to create the extreme situation. We are a very conservative company from an operations perspective, and it has served us well. In the real world, you can never say never, but I just feel that the statement given shows that we are doing things as much in favor of the client as can be expected. The stock side would be no different in terms of firm capital versus risk of customer funds, with the exception of the SIPC insurance level. Here’s the link. http://www.efxgroup.com/deposits.html

2) Here is the main point that I wanted to make today. As many might have surmised, after careful research, we have determined that it is not possible for us to incorporate in the manner that we would like MetaTrader 4 into our platform. We really tried. I can’t express that enough. I have made a concerted effort not to mention any other platform by name on these boards, and I plan to continue to do that. But, let me say this. ANY PLATFORM that is offering MT4 is, by definition of the way that their software works, a deal desk. And, again without mentioning anyone in particular, I think one NON deal desk platform basically bought MT4 with the intent of offering it to clients and realized after the fact that they couldn’t get it to work with their system just like we discovered in our due diligence. But, since they had already bought the license, they tried to take a shortcut and ended up in trouble. Again, I’m speculating a little, but I don’t think it is a reach to see what happened based on what we now know. Let me explain one example of where the issues lie.

When someone is operating a deal desk, the desk either fills your order or doesn’t. That’s it. There is NO SUCH THING in the deal desk world as a “partial fill.” So, let’s say that you are using a system that automates black box trading through an expert advisor type of service. You set a series of parameters where the buying and selling is done based on a moving average crossover with limits within three pips of the crossover occurring. On a NON deal desk system like ours, it is possible to get a partial fill. That is an AUTOMATIC possibility of a non deal desk, because your fill isn’t based on whether we wanted to fill you or not but whether there was enough size there or not. There is only so much available at any price. Most of the time, that amounts to lots of liquidity. But, there are times in a fast market when it doesn’t. So, think about it. You set your black box to trade 20 lots. On one trigger, only 8 get filled. The problem is that MT4 doesn’t know how to account for this. It still wants to close out 20 lots when the sell signal comes in. So, it sells 20 and you are now short 12. That’s a problem. Now, again, I don’t want to point fingers, but we just couldn’t get a lot of cooperation in terms of altering the system to adjust for these sorts of factors, and I’ll just leave it up to all of you to make assumptions of why that might be.

The bottom line, again, is that MT4 works only on deal desk systems, and, as we have discussed ad nauseum on these boards, we simply aren’t one. So we had to pass. Believe me; we realize that a lot of people like MT4. There were a lot of options on the table, such as using our quotes with MT4 but routing orders to a deal desk. That just isn’t where we wanted to go. It’s not how we run our company.

So, that said, what happens now? Well, if you go to the website and look at the front page, the answer lies there. I’m not going to give details at this time, but we are far along in the process. Much further than some might imagine. And BETWEEN here and there, we’ll have some exciting short-term solutions for people, some of which could be announced literally within a matter of weeks. But ultimately, we feel like we will have the exact solution that everyone has always wanted in the Forex markets, and it is coming, not LATE in 2007, but sometime in the New Year.

In the meantime, our Navigator product continues to function well, and we are working hard on making the Forex Pro product into something that Forex-only traders will love. The Navigator is an all-encompassing platform that is built for stock, options, futures, and Forex traders. The Pro will ultimately be very exciting, and let me say now that we haven’t even scratched the surface of what the “wings” or “tabs” will provide. We’re very excited about taking Forex to the next level and being the Forex-dedicated arm of MBTF. I’ll answer questions as I can, but I promise you that anything that says “Hey, tell me about Project Omega” won’t get a big response right now. ;-)

Justin LeBlang
EFX Group
 
FXSCALPER2 said:
Hey Justin,

Good to hear from you again. Just cut your costs and you have got it made. My 2 cents.

Cut cost.....you must be trading the GBP!

For those of you wondering what cost....?

EFX Group charges a commission of $5.00 per 100,000 currency traded for all USD based pairs. If your trading non USD based pairs the commissions will vary a bit.

If you are trading mini's it would be $0.50 per 10,000 currency traded for all USD based pairs, if your trading non USD based pairs the commission will vary.

Example:

100,000 USD/JPY - $5.00 commission + 1 pip spread (can be as low as 1/10th of a pip)
100,00 USD/JPY - $0.50 commission + 1 pip spread (can be as low as 1/10th of a pip)

100,000 EUR/USD - $5.00 * 1.2810 (rate) = $6.40 + 1/2 pip spread. (can have no spread at times)
100,00 EUR/USD - $0.50 * 1.2810 (rate) = $0.64 + 1/2 pip spread. (can have no spread at times)

100,000 AUD/USD - $5.00 * .7740 (rate) = $3.87 = 1 pip spread.
100,00 AUD/USD - $0.50 * .7740 (rate) = $0.39 = 1 pip spread.

I hope the above make sense.....

For more on commissions please visit http://efxgroup.com/commissions.html.
 
Come on now, Justin! I know what you said is technically correct, but I also have to get out of the position. The cost to trade 100K USDJPY is therefore $10 (about $13 for EURUSD, ABOUT $18 for GBPUSD ), and that is 1-2 pips. I can trade with a small spreadbet company for that cost and I pay no tax. I never get slipped, always filled at my stop. I like the fact that they reject my trades in a fast market rather than slipping me. I do use you guys under some conditions, but unless you cut your costs, anybody who knows what they are doing will most of the time do better spreadbetting. This dealing/nondealing stuff is all overblown.

fxtraderjustin said:
Cut cost.....you must be trading the GBP!

For those of you wondering what cost....?

EFX Group charges a commission of $5.00 per 100,000 currency traded for all USD based pairs. If your trading non USD based pairs the commissions will vary a bit.

If you are trading mini's it would be $0.50 per 10,000 currency traded for all USD based pairs, if your trading non USD based pairs the commission will vary.

Example:

100,000 USD/JPY - $5.00 commission + 1 pip spread (can be as low as 1/10th of a pip)
100,00 USD/JPY - $0.50 commission + 1 pip spread (can be as low as 1/10th of a pip)

100,000 EUR/USD - $5.00 * 1.2810 (rate) = $6.40 + 1/2 pip spread. (can have no spread at times)
100,00 EUR/USD - $0.50 * 1.2810 (rate) = $0.64 + 1/2 pip spread. (can have no spread at times)

100,000 AUD/USD - $5.00 * .7740 (rate) = $3.87 = 1 pip spread.
100,00 AUD/USD - $0.50 * .7740 (rate) = $0.39 = 1 pip spread.

I hope the above make sense.....

For more on commissions please visit http://efxgroup.com/commissions.html.
 
FXSCALPER2 said:
Come on now, Justin! I know what you said is technically correct, but I also have to get out of the position. The cost to trade 100K USDJPY is therefore $10 (about $13 for EURUSD, ABOUT $18 for GBPUSD ), and that is 1-2 pips. I can trade with a small spreadbet company for that cost and I pay no tax. I never get slipped, always filled at my stop. I like the fact that they reject my trades in a fast market rather than slipping me. I do use you guys under some conditions, but unless you cut your costs, anybody who knows what they are doing will most of the time do better spreadbetting. This dealing/nondealing stuff is all overblown.

Thank you for the comments...cost will eventually go down just as they do with any product in all markets.
 
justin i have a forex account with mb trading itself can i get the forex pro platform or do i need to switch over to efx witch don't make sense.
 
moe said:
justin i have a forex account with mb trading itself can i get the forex pro platform or do i need to switch over to efx witch don't make sense.

Hi Moe,

Yes, the FOREX Pro is for EFX clients only, but you'll be suprised how easy it is to switch from MBT to EFX Group. It requires one form to be filled out and fax or scanned back to us.

For more information please email me at [email protected]

Thank you
 
what pairs

Hey Justin,

What currency crosses do you offer? I couldn´t find that info on the website.

Thanks again.
 
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FXSCALPER2 said:
Any chance you guys will cut the commissions? Way too much.

Hi Fxscalper -

For certain pairs the commissions might seem expensive, but let’s take a closer look.

All USD based pairs the commissions are a flat $5.00 per 100k trade and on the majors you'll typically have a one pip spread or less a majority of the time. Other pairs like the EUR, AUD, GBP, the commissions are based off the currency conversion.

With EFX Group: (RT - roundtrip)

USD/JPY - $5.00 ($10.00 RT) + 1 pip Spread / 2 pip spread. At most you pay 3 pips RT, no difference then any other broker. No Deal Desk, No price manipulation.

EUR/USD - $5.00 * $1.2962 = $6.46 ($12.96 RT) + 1 pip spread or less. At most you pay 2.5 pips. 1/2 pip better then most brokers. Still no deal desk trading against you, no trading restrictions, ECN technology.

AUD/USD - $5.00 * $.7767 = $3.88 ($7.75 RT) + 1, 2 pip spread. At most you pay 2.5 pips. No requoting, all orders anonymous.

GBP/USD - $5.00 * $1.9670 = $9.80 (19.60 RT) + 1, 2 pip spread. At most you pay 4-5 pips, no difference then any other broker. Still no deal desk, no one trading against you & access to the worlds largest banks.

So as you can see, at first glance the commission might seem expensive, but after a closer look you can actual save money trading with EFX Group and receive all the benefits of an STP ECN broker.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
 
fxtraderjustin said:
Hi Fxscalper -

For certain pairs the commissions might seem expensive, but let’s take a closer look.

All USD based pairs the commissions are a flat $5.00 per 100k trade and on the majors you'll typically have a one pip spread or less a majority of the time. Other pairs like the EUR, AUD, GBP, the commissions are based off the currency conversion.

With EFX Group: (RT - roundtrip)

USD/JPY - $5.00 ($10.00 RT) + 1 pip Spread / 2 pip spread. At most you pay 3 pips RT, no difference then any other broker. No Deal Desk, No price manipulation.

EUR/USD - $5.00 * $1.2962 = $6.46 ($12.96 RT) + 1 pip spread or less. At most you pay 2.5 pips. 1/2 pip better then most brokers. Still no deal desk trading against you, no trading restrictions, ECN technology.

AUD/USD - $5.00 * $.7767 = $3.88 ($7.75 RT) + 1, 2 pip spread. At most you pay 2.5 pips. No requoting, all orders anonymous.

GBP/USD - $5.00 * $1.9670 = $9.80 (19.60 RT) + 1, 2 pip spread. At most you pay 4-5 pips, no difference then any other broker. Still no deal desk, no one trading against you & access to the worlds largest banks.

So as you can see, at first glance the commission might seem expensive, but after a closer look you can actual save money trading with EFX Group and receive all the benefits of an STP ECN broker.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Hi Justin,

CMC charge 2 pips for EURUSD and AUDUSD and 3 pips for GBPUSD, Worldspreads chanrge 1 pip for euro, cable, yen and Aussie from 8 am to 4pm. And we pay no tax in the UK on profits. You are way too expensive, at least for UK clients. There is really no justification to charge so much on GBP pairs. One idea is to decrease the spread for peole who trade, say, 1 mio a month or something like that.

I see what you are saying about execution, but I am afraid this 'price manipulation' stuff is a red herring. I like a lot of the features on your platform, but there is no way I am scalping GBPUSD with you guys. I might as well burn the money.

Thanks.
 
FXSCALPER2 said:
Hi Justin,

CMC charge 2 pips for EURUSD and AUDUSD and 3 pips for GBPUSD, Worldspreads chanrge 1 pip for euro, cable, yen and Aussie from 8 am to 4pm. And we pay no tax in the UK on profits. You are way too expensive, at least for UK clients. There is really no justification to charge so much on GBP pairs. One idea is to decrease the spread for peole who trade, say, 1 mio a month or something like that.

I see what you are saying about execution, but I am afraid this 'price manipulation' stuff is a red herring. I like a lot of the features on your platform, but there is no way I am scalping GBPUSD with you guys. I might as well burn the money.

Thanks.

My understanding is that EFX has price breaks based on volume for larger traders anyway. Also, the platforms you quoted are deal desks, so you are paying that both ways. Justin gave you numbers that were round-trip. I don't understand how people think that fixed spreads of 3 pips are cheaper than ECNs charging $5 per $100,000. As tight as their spreads are, you basically lose 1 pip to the spread getting in, you probably get taken out with a limit order, so no spread, so I'm still curious why people think it's so expensive. Maybe Justin can clarify this for me, because even his last post didn't really focus on this, but how is 1 pip + $5 per $100,000 each way more expensive than 3 or 4 pips fixed both ways?
 
barn_burner said:
My understanding is that EFX has price breaks based on volume for larger traders anyway. Also, the platforms you quoted are deal desks, so you are paying that both ways. Justin gave you numbers that were round-trip. I don't understand how people think that fixed spreads of 3 pips are cheaper than ECNs charging $5 per $100,000. As tight as their spreads are, you basically lose 1 pip to the spread getting in, you probably get taken out with a limit order, so no spread, so I'm still curious why people think it's so expensive. Maybe Justin can clarify this for me, because even his last post didn't really focus on this, but how is 1 pip + $5 per $100,000 each way more expensive than 3 or 4 pips fixed both ways?

Hi, thanks for the question. This is something that is missed by many traders working with a deal desk. It is true that when you buy the GBPUSD, if it has a 5-pip spread, and wanted to sell immediately, you lose 5 pips.

Of course, that isn't very relevant because traders don't enter a trade to immediately reverse and lose the spread.

The issue is, at the time of the execution, what are you losing versus what is going on in the true market. So let's say that you buy the GBPUSD on a desk with a 5-pip spread. Now, let's say that you have a sell order at 1.9720. The quote moves up and is 1.9715 by 1.9720. Your order isn't going to get executed until the platform CHOOSES to put their bid at 1.9720. In other words, if they get their quote to 1.9718 by 1.9723, you still haven't sold at 1.9720. And, if you didn't have an order already in, they won't let you put an order to sell in between. It has to be in before the pair gets near that price. Meanwhile, they are selling to customers at 1.9723, even though you aren't out at 1.9720. So the entire spread has to be overcome a second time before you can get out. Thus, 10 pips.

If you look at behind-the-scenes numbers for deal desks, when you throw in non-true-market pricing AND spreads both ways, they actually make almost 8 pips on average per EURUSD roundtrip trade by customers by showing a 3-pip spread and you lose a little extra because they ‘jiggle’ their quotes. Think about that. You lose the spread going in, and you lose the spread going out.

Hope that helps.
 
neil said:
Will you offer FREE charts anytime soon?

They are coming soon...I promise. I've seen them...they look great and offer features found on the best charting packages available.

The exact date the'll be released....this I do not know, but their getting closer.
 
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