Making Money Trading

This is a discussion on Making Money Trading within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by Chorlton Just because a method is taught to others, does not automatically mean that everyone will be ...

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Old Oct 27, 2007, 2:23pm   #43
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorlton View Post
Just because a method is taught to others, does not automatically mean that everyone will be profitable especially when there is a discretionay element to it which, clearly your method definately has.
EXACTLY the reason why I want us all to be looking at the same market when I teach this. If I show you what I am doing on the DAX and you go away and apply it to the GBP/USD you may not be profitable for a while. If you watch the same market I am and perhaps even trade it you will, I sincerely hope, get a feel for why I am doing what I am doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorlton View Post
Additionally, IMO two elements that can shift a strategy from profit to loss is the Exit rules & the overall Money Management side. Out of interest, will you also be sharing your thoughts on these important elements or will you be only focusing on the entry conditions?

I will certainly share my methods regarding exits. I think exits are even more important than entries and they are an area that I want to devote most of my attention too.

I may talk a bit about my money management but I am hesitant to make recommendations about what others do as it all depends on the traders individual comfort zone. The friend whose account I trade, for example, is willing to take much more risk than I am because he was always playing with the houses money (it was an account opening bonus). He will frequently try to persuade me to up the risk which I warn him against.

Since trading my personal account I have not experienced 2 back to back losers. As a result of this I took as much as 10% risk per trade until the money started to mean something and now I have cut it right down.

I know 2-3% risk per trade is regularly touted as being the conservative risk to take. I think this is perfectly acceptable although I strongly believe that it is a good idea to commit as much of your account to one position if that position offers you entry points in a strongly trending market where your OVERALL reward is increasing and risk is diminishing with each increment. We will talk about this in due course.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 2:54pm   #44
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If a finance House / company decided to offer you a substanial amount not to reveal your real trading methods but just to skirt around and reveal some of the techniques will you sell out to such a proposal? If you do not sell out to them why would you reject a substanial amount say a six figure sum can you guarantee us traders that this will not happen and we won't be mislead or deceived any way and you are not part of any hidden motive.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:12pm   #45
 
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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi t_d,
Anyone who dares to stick their head above the parapet as you appear to be doing now can expect to be shot down in flames. Such is life. Given that you have expertly got everyone's interest and attention and that you are already on page 4 of the thread, may I suggest that you offer the masses a little 'cud' to chew on over the weekend? This will help to keep the prospective dissenting voices at bay and to ensure that the faithful - and eternally hopeful - remain on side, supportive and as enthusiastic about your intentions as they appear to be thus far. Forgive me if this sounds a tad harsh but, trust me, in my not inconsiderable experience of T2W there will be those who, as I write, are waiting in the wings to shoot you down in flames. So far, everything you've said is 'by the book' and hard to criticize but, sooner or later, the rubber meets the road and you're gonna have to follow through on your intentions. PLEASE don't leave it too long!

Tim.
Hi Tim,

Your post is accepted and appreciated!

I'll say one thing: if anyone wants to constructively criticise anything I say / do then feel free - perhaps we will all learn something in the process. I'm not some guru and don't wish to be treated as such. I have a lot to learn still. Right now I am just a trader whose consistency in winning is telling him he is getting somewhere further than others out there. So I will pass information back down the line as it were

I am sure there are many of you that have performed much better than me and if so I hope I can learn something from YOU!

I personally play devils advocate in my personal life. When anyone takes the consensus I usually find something wrong with it so don't think you are going to offend me.

Please try not to just gun me down for sharing things though.

It's like someone that argues: "I am going to prove the existence of extraterrestrials. Firstly, a good reason why they exist is because no one has proven since time began, that they don't exist".

You could constructively criticise this by replying: "That is ridiculous. The reason this hasn't happened is that it is virtually impossible to prove something doesn't exist. Only that it does exist."

If however, someone says: "I am going to prove extraterrestrials exist...because I have one in my wardrobe..." pulls open the door and out it walks. Well then the criticism becomes harder.

Whatever you want to say about how I am doing things, the undeniable fact is that I am making money right now. And have been for several months. If anyone actually wishes to see screenshots of my trading account history or a trading equity curve I will post one.

I also always talk in terms of money made when I make a trade aswell as in terms of ticks won/lost. Some may appreciate this out of genuine interest into what can be made, others may find it crass. But I do it nonetheless.

Ok rant over. Lets get on with this.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:27pm   #46
 
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Originally Posted by hanzam View Post
If a finance House / company decided to offer you a substanial amount not to reveal your real trading methods but just to skirt around and reveal some of the techniques will you sell out to such a proposal? If you do not sell out to them why would you reject a substanial amount say a six figure sum can you guarantee us traders that this will not happen and we won't be mislead or deceived any way and you are not part of any hidden motive.
Hanzam! I'll make you a deal. If a finance house offers me a substantial amount not to reveal my real trading method, I will tell you all that I am knocking this idea on its head and not posting anymore.

I'll be brutally honest. I'm probably not going to put a group of people I've never met in my life, before a six figure sum of money from a finance house but I will also tell you that I will not be misleading or deceiving anyone.

Your post has actually vaguely worried me. I feel like I should write some kind of legal disclaimer now.

Please realise that past performance is no indication of future results. I am going to show you what is working for me. If it suddenly stops working because the markets change then the only guarantee I can give you is that I will be losing money too, right infront of all your eyes because I am going to trade what I speak about.

Please, please, please, demo what you see and never use money you cannot afford to lose. Take things slowly and build up confidence in this method. The market is not going anywhere. There is plenty of time to learn this and use it profitably.

This is not going to be a signal service. I am not going to tell you buy X when it reaches Y - I will tell you what I am doing and why I am doing it. If you choose to follow me it is at your own risk. I don't think this is any different to keeping a journal. If anyone knows anything more about this regarding the legality, than I do, please tell me now!
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:35pm   #47
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorlton View Post
If so, can I ask what your average time in Trade is and what your Max DD is?
Hi Chorlton,

I missed the latter part of this question the first time round.

Maximum individual trade drawdown has been 9.6%. That was back when the account was very small and I had little or no say in risk taken when trading at minimum size.

Even including this time when I was taking such risk, maximum weekly drawdown since I began trading the method has been 6%.

Current return on equity as of the Friday close is 2,164%.
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 3:36pm   #48
 
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Hi,
I'm looking forward to you explaining your method, and ignore
the flamers .
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Old Oct 27, 2007, 4:09pm   #49
 
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Special thanks

trader_dante started this thread Ok the last thing that needs to be done before I start is to credit everyone that helped me along the path.

First and foremost is the james16 Chart Thread over at Forex Factory. This man did more for my trading than any source I have come across in seven years. There is a huge amount of free information in his thread which taught me the fundamentals of price action and how to trade it profitably. There is also a private forum which is a paying service for subscribers. I am not here to sell that but I would like to say that I am a member and it an absolutely incredible source for all traders and an excellent value for money. There are systems and ideas on price action, money management and trading psychology in that forum that have turned many traders around. They will not be revealed here.

Secondly I would like to give credit to Phi Nell who also posts over on Forex Factory. He has several strategies that have gained a good following but I refer to his strategy called the "5m intraday system" which is the foundation of my EMA system. I have made some minor changes to it and of course trade it on the longer timeframes but credit for the idea must go to him. Since this is an actual system I have asked Phil Nel's permission to refer to it. This was his reply: "I have no problem with that. We are here to help people to gain success. You have my full permission and good luck with it. You can add this notes to the thread so that people can see you have my blessing on it - Phillip".

So I have taken these works and then added something discretionary to it. In short, I have combined them with my own experience in the market which has been fairly extensive spanning seven years.

I have done a lot of reading in that time. Some of the key books which have given me ideas / beliefs (and perhaps most importantly the peseverance to pursue this despite years of difficulty) are, in no particular order:

How I made $2,000,000 in the stock market - Nicolas Darvas
Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
The New Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Stock Market Wizards - Jack D. Schwager
Bulls, Bears, & Brains - Adam Leitzes and Joshua Solan
Trend Following: How great traders make millions in up or down markets - Michael W. Covel
Technical Trading Online - Jerold Roth
High Probability Trading - Marcel Link
Reminiscences Of A Stock Operator - Edwin Lefevre
Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader - Richard Smitten
How To Trade In Stocks - Jesse Livermore
Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds - Charles Mackay

I would recommend these to all traders from amateur to highly experienced. I am a strong believer in keeping things simple and as a result I still read books that teach the basics even though I have now been doing this a long time.

I have found that most books, even if they are aimed at the beginner will often teach you something new. It may be that little piece of information or thought process that it sets off, that will take you down a new path that could lead to profitability.
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