Unfashionable Advice

This is a discussion on Unfashionable Advice within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; As a disciplined trader - you act. Without thought. Without second thought. Without looking back. - ASC...

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Old Oct 12, 2005, 5:16pm   #1
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Unfashionable Advice

As a disciplined trader - you act. Without thought. Without second thought. Without looking back. - ASC

Last edited by Aleph Sigma Chi; Nov 3, 2005 at 9:00pm. Reason: Awareness
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 7:50pm   #2
 
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hello mate, is it possible to develop the characterstics without having exposure of the experience which leads to characteristic awareness/development? you did it the hard way ? according to whom? how did your mentor develop himself ? somebody elses way or his own ?

And do you now regret trading as if you listened to your mentor you wouldn't of bothered trying?? Maybe i'm looking at in skewed but in your case it makes sense to ignore mentors and find out for yourself?

look forward to your next piece

fx.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 9:12pm   #3
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This thread has the potential to become intensely fascinating.

I did not have a Mentor, but had I had one I seriously doubt I would have taken any other course
than the one that I stumbled along.

You see, everyone one of us must duck and dive through all sorts of minefields before it begins to dawn that there is only the H/L/O/C and perhaps volume. In continuous markets the O is useless and in forex, I have yet to see accurate volume.

Once you have began to see the figures through less than rose tinted glasses, you then run into the biggest variable in the whole game ... namely yourself and this is where things become very interesting.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 9:42pm   #4
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Thanks an enjoyable and insightful read. Im only a beginner in currency trading and am quickly becoming aware of the task that lay ahead, (not that it daunts me, on the contrary infact). I look forward to the next installment.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 9:48pm   #5
 
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This thread is going to become JfTB part 2. Mark my words.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 10:02pm   #6
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There is not much to remember about trading basics, support and resistance can be very precise. The question is ....when does a person realise this? When does an individual get with the whole programme?

What does an individual need to know? Is it not all there? What are these people thinking?

My advice coincides with the title of this thread. Surely not?

I'll try. Just for the benefit of people who can't put posts together. For anybody else.....you'll have to bear with me.

If you can't, put me on ignore. That will suit you better.

Last edited by frugi; Oct 12, 2005 at 11:01pm. Reason: Merged posts: 212344, 212348, 212350, 212361, 212362
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 10:50pm   #7
 
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Any chance you could do one post at a time rudeboy? It makes a difference when reading/printing.

Duly merged :-) frugi
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 11:14am   #8
 
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The herd thunders by....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleph Sigma Chi
Hadn't expected feedback so quickly or have I anything else ready just yet, but will address issues raised as you've all be so kind as to take the trouble to read my post and to post yourselves.

Maybe my rambling style occluded the central point I was hoping to make (direct response to fxmarkets comments). Although I had a mentor, I didn't like what he was telling me. Too hard. Too difficult. And assumed it was that way for them, because they weren't as talented as me. That was really what I thought then. My hubris cost me dearly. It was only after doing it my way that I realised I had had to learn those skills my mentor said I would, in order to learn the other skills needed. I'm not sure if I could have gone down the 'learn the skills first' route as he suggested or if I really had to do it my way (as commanderco confirms was true for him). Either way, I got the same education. The difference being in retrospect the way I did was much harder and more expensive in so many ways than if I'd taken his advice. And probably yes, if I thought then his way was the only way (which I truly believe it has to be) I wouldn't have persevered as I have. But then again, equally, did I really have the choice. No real trader ever has a choice about trading. Only the route he or she selects. You get to choose the route only.

rudeboy hints at the basics of trading. I will have more to say on that in due course. For now I should just say that you need to take the journey sometimes to get back to where you started to see it all afresh. I think there's a quote by TS Eliot that captures the essence of that quite well.
Odd you mentioned T.S.Eliot - I'm in the midst of readng a biography of him; "An imperfect life."
However, I digress:
Many would be traders enter the trading arena to satisfy a gamblers itch for easy riches. Others seek great reward for little effort. Then there are the lazy; the stupid; those genuinely seeking another career and finally ; the naive.

Fraudsters abound in this arena, hawking the traders holy grail. Then there are the mentors who teach approaches to trading, who do not promise that a course will lead to success but are still vilified by those who fail to manage themselves!

Many novices race from one rainbows end to another seeking that holy grail, only to discover, if they survive the hurdles blocking their route to success, that KISS rules plus personal character traits are the more successful approaches to trading.

Sigma makes sense thus far but I would lay odds that many who pass through this site are still seeking that cornfield where the rainbows' end touches the soil.

Nice article Sigma - almost Socratic
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Last edited by neil; Oct 13, 2005 at 11:17am. Reason: spellin
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Old Oct 13, 2005, 11:55am   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
that KISS rules plus personal character traits are the more successful approaches to trading.
The latter is a pre requisite and the former is always overlooked by most aspirants due to the reams of literature pontificating every conceivable method to analyse price other than the most proficient.

This advice is not exercised frequently enough, well expressed Neil.

Regards

TMM

Last edited by TheMoneyMachine; Oct 13, 2005 at 8:43pm.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 2:42pm   #10
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Aleph Sigma Chi
The only comment I can make is " I await your next missive with keen anticipation"

Your first two have been simply outstanding.... the best that I have ever read.
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 7:56pm   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleph Sigma Chi
Years later and after serious initial capital losses
I don't know many individual traders - those who've been trading consistently for a long time (5 years or more) - who haven't gone through the "I know better" syndrome which results, eventually, in capital loss.

Maybe going through that is part of what makes the 'character' necessary to be a trader. Maybe your mentor went through that too.

I'll concede there are probably some who haven't - those who listened and acted faithfully upon what they learned - but I'll bet it's not many.
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 12:09am   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderco
Aleph Sigma Chi
The only comment I can make is " I await your next missive with keen anticipation"

Your first two have been simply outstanding.... the best that I have ever read.
Seconded
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 11:07am   #13
 
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hmmm, now this morning as I lay in bed its still/quiet until you tune into noise,cockeral crowing, birds, wife breathing, dog snoring ! that sort of thing , just as a daily fog drifts inshore so does trading drift into mind. Sitting with this learning to trade successfully, or becoming a trader, its hovering .

Anyway after 15 20 minutes or so it popped out its

Being born and giving birth to yourself.

Ultimately a beautiful thing, how can it be any different?in a selfless way ,as my mind went to a film "Ripleys Game" with John Malkovic (spelling) quote from film " But I do believe we are constantly being born"

The period of this birthing process, growing, giving birth, being born.. years..? I had some funny thoughts then which kinda went like.......... waaahh waah, thud.....congratulations, its....... its .. a currency day trader....... or something out of the alien series and the creatures birthing habbits. hmmm. all this before my first cup of tea.... ying and yang in there somewhere I,m sure.

Then I also thought about this birthing thing........ with men and trading and women who are natural givers of birth... I havent heard a female and I do need to be gender specific here... describe going through then pain of being born and giving birth to themselves as a trader?? why is this?

Now I have no idea about the ratio,s of women to men pursuing trading but there must be some? Is it just men and the ego. ahhhhhh i did read about LBR mentioning isolation as a concern when trading from home in market wizards, but thats about it..... no wonder men struggle , and its said women make better traders.

Thanks for posting.. ASC.
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 3:21pm   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxmarkets
Now I have no idea about the ratio,s of women to men pursuing trading but there must be some? Is it just men and the ego.
Pretty much.

Men are lazy and, in many cases I think, we got into trading because we had ideas of it being an easy way to make a decent living. Most found out it isn't all that easy and, at least at the beginning, the money isn't all that good, so they either gave up (about 95% do this at a guess) or carried on with sort of dogged persistence.

I think women who get into it, being less naturally lazy creatures, do so with more logic. In my experience they're less influenced by the 'Holy Grail - make a million' rubbish or the snake-oil peddlars who 'have a system' that works for a few months or years and then breaks them; they are better at seeing it for what it is: a very risky and unlikely way to make a living. Doesn't necessarily make them 'better' traders in the long run, but I think they enter in a different way.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I've lost a few small fortunes getting into this game. I've made a few small fortunes too and had 2-year runs where I could do no wrong - thought I was invincible - but that money has gone back into the markets again. One says things like "I'm okay now, I'll put that money away", but times get tougher and one doesn't.

Screw entry and exit systems - they just bring short term results - I think to be in this game long-term it's about money management and strict, strict discipline.

Everyone talks about different types of traders with reference to words like 'swing', 'momentum', 'fundamental', 'position' and such-like, but I don't think those things say much about a trader. I think it's about time. For me a trader can be defined by:

- 'normal': trades for a few weeks, months or years until all the money's gone. May even has long periods of winning, but it goes eventually. Doesn't make any sort of 'living' from it in the long term.

- 'lucky and wise': gets a decent run together and gets out with a profit. Recognises it isn't a living, but through various degrees of skill and luck manages to crack it for a while and then has the wisdom to get out.

- 'pro trader': has been doing it consistently for at least 5 years - probably nearer to 10 - and makes a genuine 'living' out of it. Vey much the minority.

I'm not counting institutional traders in those categories; they're a different breed altogether with different objectives and different resources at their command.

But who cares eh? Just my opinions after all.
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 4:05pm   #15
 
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ASC
My sincerest gratitude for starting this thread. I hope to see many more enlightening posts from you and look forward to a strong, long-lasting relationship between yourself and T2W.

As you will surely know, in all bulletin boards (T2W no exception), you will often be derided, criticised, abused, misinterpreted, persecuted, threatened and so on by some people. This has happened to all the veteran traders here who bothered to help others. That's part of the net life, unfortunately.

When (not if) that happens, please ignore them and think instead of the silent majority who will continue to enjoy your posting.

I hope the moderators will ensure that ASC is not driven out of the boards.
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