joel parker - price action room

joel parker. is this guy a scam? he is a great salesman that's for sure.

He tried to get me to sign up. I agreed on the condition that he provided proof that he was profitable. Alas he suddenly lost interest. He said the proof wouldn't help me anyway. I explained to him that if I knew I was dealing with a profitable trader it was more likely that I would learn something but he didn't want to know.

another one making good money from 'training'. ho hum.

ChocolateDigestive said:

joel parker. is this guy a scam? he is a great salesman that's for sure.

He tried to get me to sign up. I agreed on the condition that he provided proof that he was profitable. Alas he suddenly lost interest. He said the proof wouldn't help me anyway. I explained to him that if I knew I was dealing with a profitable trader it was more likely that I would learn something but he didn't want to know.

another one making good money from 'training'. ho hum.

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will be good if you post the email reply from him.

He's a T2W author you know.

Articles - Authors - Joel Parker

pboyles said:

He's a T2W author you know.

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And so is the decoder of the Secret Nazi Box

Where do they find these flakes ?

the hare said:

And so is the decoder of the Secret Nazi Box

Where do they find these flakes ?

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I think they sieve litter trays. Then they throw away those turds that show any sign of knowledge, competence, honesty or decency. What's left is your typical trading forum vendor.

alphadude said:

will be good if you post the email reply from him.

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Here is the email I sent him:
____________________________________
Hi Joel

Thanks for the reply. I am an experienced trader and I have wasted money in the past on training to later find out that the vendor is a scam and/or cannot trade profitably themselves.

Could I ask for some proof that you can trade profitably before I order the training?
____________________________________

Here is the reply

____________________________________

As an experienced trader, you probably already realize the answer to these questions: Does the fact that I can trade profitably using a discretionary method of trading mean that you will be able to trade profitably? Do you think my years of experience and skills, or that of anyone else for that matter, have any bearing on whether you have the experience and skills to implement a discretionary method of trading? Does the fact that I have excellent discipline when it comes to management have any bearing on your trading success?

I don't intend to be sarcastic or inflammatory by asking this. However, it is a lesson that many have not learned. As discretionary traders, we win or lose based on who and what WE are, not on what someone else is. As I pointed out clearly in the presentation, this is not a system, it is not black box - it is pure discretionary trading, watching the ebb and flow of the market, analyzing what you just witnessed, and then making decisions as to whether or not to enter and how to manage, etc.

I have never yet seen any connection between my success and another trader's success. Frequently I call my trades live with clients, all visible on screensharing - they see me pull the trigger, DOM and chart both visible so they know it isn't SIM. I close the day with very nice profits, yet they claim they followed me exactly and ended up with a loss. As you know, they did not follow exactly, and it is not possible to do so in most cases. They entered 4 ticks late, used the same size stop, got clipped on the first wiggle while my entry was never even touched again and I ended up with nice profits while they sucked on a loser. Next trade, they got the same entry price, got nervous after a little heat and hesitation, bailed with two ticks of profit, and I got multiple points. Yet in their mind somehow they feel they did the same exact thing I did and can't understand how they didn't make money while I did.*

Not to bore you with details, but this happens frequently enough to make me a little sarcastic when someone thinks my results have anything to do with theirs. If you feel that my success or lack thereof is relevant to your results, please feel free to enlighten me. I will say this much about it, and please don't take it as a guarantee of success. I have trained a couple hundred traders over the course of the past decade. Never has someone asked for a refund, although a couple complained behind my back that trading this method doesn't work. They wouldn't respond to my emails when it was pointed out to me, so couldn't elaborate on their beef. In typical followup visits two months after going through training, about half have transitioned to a profitable status, while almost to a man (woman) those who responded say it moved their trading skills forward considerably. That compares quite favorably to broker averages where between 5-13% are typically break even or profitable.

I understand your reluctance to trust those in this industry (or any other for that matter) - I experienced it myself many years ago and see the bad consequences of trusting in systems almost daily. I wish you best success in your endeavor, whether you choose to move on down the road alone or not!

________________________________________________

My further reply

________________________________________________

Hi Joel

Thanks for the reply. I totally understand that learning from a profitable trader does not guarantee success. I do believe though that the chances of success are higher learning from a profitable trader as opposed to an unprofitable trader.

________________________________________________

So he claims that on the follow up check he makes 50% of his students are profitable. He also claims nobody has EVER asked for refund. Apparently learning from a profitable trader has no bearing on the odds of success. Lol

"I have never yet seen any connection between my success and another trader's success."

And yet he is selling training?

Didn't DionysusToast learn from him? I'm sure he mentioned him.

ChocolateDigestive said:

joel parker. is this guy a scam? he is a great salesman that's for sure.

He tried to get me to sign up. I agreed on the condition that he provided proof that he was profitable. Alas he suddenly lost interest. He said the proof wouldn't help me anyway. I explained to him that if I knew I was dealing with a profitable trader it was more likely that I would learn something but he didn't want to know.

another one making good money from 'training'. ho hum.

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Why don't you ask DT for his input seeing as he recommends him on his website
Jigsaw Trading Reconstructed Tape. Improving Time and Sales for Day Traders or would you need to see his
proof of profitability before you would be prepared to listen?

dazzer_fx said:

Why don't you ask DT for his input seeing as he recommends him on his website
Jigsaw Trading Reconstructed Tape. Improving Time and Sales for Day Traders or would you need to see his
proof of profitability before you would be prepared to listen?

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I understand DT has a software product which seems genuine. I have no idea why he is associated with Joel Parker. I am not looking for any training I only emailed him as he kept sending emails to try and get me to sign up following a free webinar I signed up to way back. I often sign up for freebies and when a vendor persists in trying to get me to pay for training I tell them I want to sign up on condition they send through proof they are profitable. Most don't bother replying.

ChocolateDigestive said:

joel parker. is this guy a scam? he is a great salesman that's for sure.

He tried to get me to sign up. I agreed on the condition that he provided proof that he was profitable. Alas he suddenly lost interest. He said the proof wouldn't help me anyway. I explained to him that if I knew I was dealing with a profitable trader it was more likely that I would learn something but he didn't want to know.

another one making good money from 'training'. ho hum.

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All of these guys are a waste of time. If they could trade, they would trade. They can't, so they "teach". They would also be happy to show proof. His answer is really just putting you off. You did not ask for proof that his "students" could emulate him exactly, you asked for proof that he is a profitable trader.

This is perfectly reasonable. Just because he might be able use his methods, and you might not, is irrelevant to the question you were asking. You already accept it, you just want to be sure that the person teaching his methods can use them, because if he can't, there is little hope of you using them successfully.

You ask a reasonable question, you get obfuscation in return.

Every second you spend investigating vendors and educators is wasted. They are all useless.

The Leopard said:

Every second you spend investigating vendors and educators is wasted. They are all useless.

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Well, they're good for lulz. Someone invite him to come on here and explain himself!

Peter

what a revealing response; it confirms that most *teachers* sell you hope and not trading techniques.

Joel took a step further and used philosophy to defend his sales. Much like Mitchem who defend himself by saying "you have not bought my course; how could you say bad stuff about it? you should pay 15K first; then i will give you the right to talk about it".

a summary of Joel Parker's gig:

"am crap and I teach crap to gullibles who wants to pay for crap"

ChocolateDigestive said:

... Joel saying "I have never yet seen any connection between my success and another trader's success"...l

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absolutely crap.

most successful traders will tell you that you need a mentor (successful one).

Read "Market Wizards" to find out who taught who.

Not to mention the turtle experiment by Dennis Richard.

(dont confuse the original turtle experiment with CrapMcDaddy turtle experiment, in which he turned some punters to lizards instead of turtles. the poor guys learned how to sell crap on the phones and how to trade the left side of charts and make 300% per trade day in and day out. I can only hope they find a broker who let them trade the left side of charts; because I have not find one myself )

ChocolateDigestive said:

I have no idea why he is associated with Joel Parker.

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without actually linking to the specific page, as i do not wish to perpetuate vendor linking. though not specifically stated, i think you'll find that maybe dt's software is being bundled up as an option in one of joels training packages. if this is a correct assumption, then it'll be of no surprise dt links to joel, as most vendors do this if they are associated/affiliated in some way.

The Leopard said:

All of these guys are a waste of time. If they could trade, they would trade. They can't, so they "teach". They would also be happy to show proof. His answer is really just putting you off. You did not ask for proof that his "students" could emulate him exactly, you asked for proof that he is a profitable trader.

This is perfectly reasonable. Just because he might be able use his methods, and you might not, is irrelevant to the question you were asking. You already accept it, you just want to be sure that the person teaching his methods can use them, because if he can't, there is little hope of you using them successfully.

You ask a reasonable question, you get obfuscation in return.

Every second you spend investigating vendors and educators is wasted. They are all useless.

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100% agree dude.

alphadude said:

what a revealing response; it confirms that most *teachers* sell you hope and not trading techniques.

Joel took a step further and used philosophy to defend his sales. Much like Mitchem who defend himself by saying "you have not bought my course; how could you say bad stuff about it? you should pay 15K first; then i will give you the right to talk about it".

a summary of Joel Parker's gig:

"am crap and I teach crap to gullibles who wants to pay for crap"

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Personally I could not sleep at night if I was selling something worthless or doing people a disservice. Moral bankruptcy has caused many of today's problems.

It was Mr Charts that first got me interested in Tape Reading and it was Joel Parker that gave me intensive training. This is going back a few years. At the time, Joel had a room in which he traded live every day. This sort of descended into mayhem because it became more of a social room than a trading room and we all kept missing trades. It was a good laugh but I am glad it disappeared...

Still - you have only my word to take for that and I don't blame anyone for doing their own due dilligence.

In terms of the tools, once I fully understood what all this was about, my first thoughts were that the existing tools were flawed and that I was not going to jump through hoops trying to keep stuff in my head when I could 'fix' what was wrong with T&S and the DOM. I told Joel what I was doing, bounced ideas off him and that's how the tools were created.

Joel does resell the tools and he makes a loss on every sale he makes. Basically, he 'eats' the paypal fees on his sales and gives me the full amount.

I still recommend people go to him for training and he still recommends people buy the tools.

Everyone has to do their own due diligence. I am not here to defend Joels approach to people wanting verification, he can do that if he wants to. I just wanted to clear up how I'm involved.

What he taught was instrumental in me 'getting it' and I have not seen what he teaches anywhere else before or afterwards. I think that trading rooms are an essential part of the process of learning because of the nuance in applying a method.

I understand that Joel does trade live with his mentorship students but to be honest, we mostly do our own things. So I don't make a point of keeping up with what he's doing all the time.

eh!? he's making no loss at all on each of your products he sells. all he's done is price his main course accordingly, to account for the fee. actually he makes a teensy tiny bit, cos he's pricing it up at $0.01 more than you sell it.

total course fee with time and sales = $1695, paypal merchant fees on that will be around $49.45, which will include the fee on the time and sales part, of which totals $150, paypal fee on your software part = $4.65.

he's no doubt happy with $1645 for the course, after fees. else he wouldn't have priced as such would he?

Actually I liked his email to ChocDi.....It's shows he's got a "take no crap" sort of confidence

MoonRocket said:

Actually I liked his email to ChocDi.....It's shows he's got a "take no crap" sort of confidence

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Oh he's got confidence in spades. His salesmanship cannot be faulted. Confidence and a little bit of knowledge can get you far in most industries.To those who have been in the game a while though it doesn't pass the smell test.