You are NOT trading.

mp6140

Established member
742 74
Isn't a spreadbet just like a poor man's OTC derivative? Don't want to offend anyone's superiority complex...
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actually sounds like it IS an OTC derivative !!"

is in the US anyway

mp
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,231
mr shepherd, I earn a very large amount for my clients thru the use of a "broker" here in the states.

a broker is much the same as your "spread betters" except WE pay taxes (capital gains)

what i said to you is you are very correct in the use of the word "gambler", but that IN REALITY, it just doesnt matter !

MONEY IS MONEY, and if a "bookie" or "broker" gives it to me, I simply dont care what they call him !

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !
Hi mp,

If your client wants---I know that almost all are very short term---but, could he take possesion of those shares on the expiry date?

That is, I think, the basic difference between broking and spreadbetting. With the latter the client cannot take possession of those shares.

A broker lodges your trade at the exchange. A spreadbet company does not. If he does, it's his choice, for hedging purposes. That is why the government terms them gamblers and there is no tax. Officially. However if you make enough money out of it, rest assured, the old taxman will be after you for income tax.

Split
 

mp6140

Established member
742 74
Hi mp,

If your client wants---I know that almost all are very short term---but, could he take possesion of those shares on the expiry date?

first split, my major clients have been with me for a large number of years, and NO they cannot take possesion of the shares, BUT IT IS OF NO MATTER in reality !

That is, I think, the basic difference between broking and spreadbetting. With the latter the client cannot take possession of those shares.

It is EXACTLY the same (in forex and futures) as spread betting, without the WONDERFUL tax advantages !

A broker lodges your trade at the exchange. A spreadbet company does not. If he does, it's his choice, for hedging purposes. That is why the government terms them gamblers and there is no tax. Officially. However if you make enough money out of it, rest assured, the old taxman will be after you for income tax.

In equities, a "broker" DOES register your shares, but in forex that is not the case !


your last sentence has dashed my hopes completely --- i was going to sail to england on the morning tide to make an additional 28 - 40% on my trading and now youve put the kabosh on those plans !

"drop the sails me hearties --- split says its NG !"

Split
OH WELL

mp
 

dcraig1

Experienced member
1,604 243
Hi mp,

If your client wants---I know that almost all are very short term---but, could he take possesion of those shares on the expiry date?

That is, I think, the basic difference between broking and spreadbetting. With the latter the client cannot take possession of those shares.

A broker lodges your trade at the exchange. A spreadbet company does not. If he does, it's his choice, for hedging purposes. That is why the government terms them gamblers and there is no tax. Officially. However if you make enough money out of it, rest assured, the old taxman will be after you for income tax.

Split
Which of course touches on an important issue. How safe is your money with a bookie that goes into receivership ? I wouln't be suprised if client accounts were at the end of the list of creditors.
 

mp6140

Established member
742 74
Which of course touches on an important issue. How safe is your money with a bookie that goes into receivership ? I wouln't be suprised if client accounts were at the end of the list of creditors.
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now this i cant argue with, which is why i use VERY well established "brokers" and would do the same if i were working with "spread betters". Ive heard Cantors is very reliable, but of course have no personal experience as they have a big sign in their window stating "YANKS NEED NOT APPLY !"

it is, obviously, one of the really huge problems with forex --- the almost completely "wild west" manner in which companies pop up and drop out, go bankrupt and show up somewhere else. with its popularity and increasing number of "traders" entering the market, there will become a day of reckoning sooner or later, and much more stringent rules will have to be applied, which will also probably increase the costs, but such is the manner of "civilization !"

mp
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,231
OK, so where does that leave NDFs in FX? (Non Deliverable Forwards). These are to all intents and purposes kinda CFDs / spreadbets for the wholesale FX market, used to facilitate trading (be it for speculative , asset allocation or hedging purposes) in emerging market currencies where the central bank has imposed currency controls on the onshore cash market.

Pricing compared to G7 FX is very very opaque, and pretty much at the mercy of the club of people trading and market making in good size. When the trades come to maturity they 'fix' against an official rate a couple of days before value date, and you pay / recieve your P+L in USD usually (but NEVER in local currency - that's the 'non deliverable' part of the equation).

See what I mean - so many of thes definitions, when you get right down to it, are really blurred.

My $0.02

GJ
Don't know. It's a bit out of my depth. I just go for the indices and shares.

Split
 
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Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,231
Sorry split - wasn't having a go at you - hope that's not how it came across. Just offering up a few example for discussion.

GJ
No, I know that and I didn't take it that way. :)

I think we were both on the "other" thread and, perhaps, still a bit jumpy. :D

Split
 

fernanj

Junior member
32 3
This thread certainly had a clash of 'egos' at stake :rolleyes:.. Spreadbetter or Trader, we must remember that everything in life is a "GAMBLE" there are no certainties....only death!!
 

mp6140

Established member
742 74
This thread certainly had a clash of 'egos' at stake :rolleyes:.. Spreadbetter or Trader, we must remember that everything in life is a "GAMBLE" there are no certainties....only death!!
oh my --- split and i were hoping that was an "option !"

but i think weve pretty much killed it graveyard dead at this point !

mp
 

MrGecko

Senior member
2,778 789
I'm with MP on this one; think this thread has lasted it's course. It's poiniant that the last point made is "there is only one thing certain in life, and that is death......

(....and, unless your a SB'er; taxes)"

:LOL:
 
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Paul71

Senior member
2,056 412
SBing is called SBing because it's a bet, not a trade, because the SB prices are only indicitive. You are not exchanging contracts with anybody!

But if you don't understand how the markets work, both DMA and SB, are about as much use as t*ts on a snake.