Inflation, is it the elephant in the room?

The government wants high inflation as it will erode the staggering debt we have and to help achieve this they will want to keep interest rates low in my view.


Paul


Ah yes the genius behind the Keynesian economic rescue plan...
save the borrowers... but whipe out the savers and lending industry in one foul swoop.

I really wish they would be abit more rational before accepting "Zimbabwean Economics".... sure thier debt was wiped out... along with returns, savings, hopes of foriegn investments and the entire market structure as a whole...

Interestingly though... a new currency is emerging in Zimbabwae...
3 guesses as to what that could be:smart:


 
Let's work it out...

About ten years ago oil averaged $16 - $36.

Why would you say oil ran up to $150 and now stable around $70?

What's any of this got to do with the X factor anyhow:)

Nevermind your cheese...wheres mine?
 
You haven't seen anything on oil prices yet? $150 will be a give away price in another couple of years.

Historically, high oil prices have either caused or significantly contributed to recession. If oil hits $150 then it will likely be followed by the same again in my view.


Paul
 
Here's a link to the ONS site, it's an invaluable resourse IMHO. Employment figures just out...Notice that public sector employment grew once again, it's grown circa 300K in the past 18 mnoths whilst the private sector has shed in excess of 1 million jobs and this discounts those forced into part time work/hours reduced, which is estimated at 2.5 million in the past year alone.

There are currently 6mil+ employed by the state, circa 25% of those employed. However when you add in quangos etc this figure rises to 35%. 10% will have to go once the election is over...between 600k-800k jobs IMO. Tories always kill inflation, by whatever brutal methods necessary...


The number of women in part-time employment increased by 122,000 on the quarter to reach a record high of 5.84 million, the number of men in part-time employment was unchanged, and there were quarterly falls in the numbers of both men and women in full-time employment. There were just over one million employees and self-employed people working part-time because they could not find a full-time job. This is the highest figure since records for this series began in 1992 and it is up 34,000 on the quarter.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=12
 
Your recollection isn't correct... Nothing was special during the crisis. All the letters were sent, rates were cut on the basis of the same inflation mandate (inflation forecast to undershoot tgt over medium term), etc. Whether you read some sort of collusion/dependence into this is up to you.

Fair enough - I shouldn't trust a hazy recollection!

Edit: Now I remember what made it suspect: lending had more or less stopped, and it was plain that inflation was really not foremost in anyone's mind (it was over 5% at the time). What was focusing minds was total banking collapse. However, you are absolutely right: the minutes for Nov 2008 predicted a steep decline in inflation, and I did read something else into it!
 
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Let's work it out...

About ten years ago oil averaged $16 - $36.

Why would you say oil ran up to $150 and now stable around $70?

Theres bugger all to work out.

In the 70s and 80s oil industry was expanding like mad....keeping pace with demand.
In the 90's and 2000's more real demand for it and investors were awash with money and speculated the price up. Like good speculators do !

Cue the end of the bubble...just like every bubble thats come and gone before.

The End
 
Theres bugger all to work out.

In the 70s and 80s oil industry was expanding like mad....keeping pace with demand.
In the 90's and 2000's more real demand for it and investors were awash with money and speculated the price up. Like good speculators do !

Cue the end of the bubble...just like every bubble thats come and gone before.

The End

So what is holding the price at $70?

Price of oil has doubled and you are saying this is the end of the bubble.

We are in the middle of a recession and oil is double what it has been past 30-40 years...



Cue unanswered question... Where do you see the price of oil when recovery is in full swing?

or

Will oil at $150 extinguish that recovery?



Place your bets...:cheesy:
 
Spending is too high, and one of the main problems is pensions. The current unfunded liability for public sector pensions is close to £1trio. The bad news is there is no "pot" to pay for it, but that is also the good news. It means that 1) the "pot" didn't lose value when equities came off, because it didn't exist and 2) the rules can be changed. Option 2) is an interesting one. For an example in the private sector, take the BA pension deficit, currently estimated at £3.5bio. Any profits that BA ever make simply go into this black hole to fund ridiculously generous final salary pension schemes. The pension fund will simply go bust, there is no alternative, hence pilots are now moving money out, at a loss (better to take a loss and keep something than wait and lose it all).

The analogy with the UK government now becomes slightly unnerving. We simply cannot afford our current level of spending (be it on final salary pensions starting at the age of 60 for 80 pct of public sector workers or even on the NHS), it's not a matter for opinion, it's a fact. "Cost efficiencies" are utterly irrelevant. What needs to happen is that the public sector either shed a large number of jobs, sections are privatised, or they take a pay cut (in other words, welcome to the real world). The unions will resist this, so the logical inevitability here is industrial action.

We're getting a taste of it already with the suicidal BA strike over Christmas (this will surely finish the company off). Over the next few years, we will see much worse, and possibly civil unrest.

I'm not completely gloomy here.. the Brits are nothing if not pragmatic. However, the re-adjustment process is going to be painful. I just hope that it's the government that decides where spending cuts fall, rather than the market imposing it with a complete collapse in the bond market (hello Argentina).
 
Here's an interesting website :

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

It shows that pension spending is now £100bio a year, and this is on schemes that are typically 3-5 times more generous than the private sector.

The overall wage bill is £300bio a year.. if they all took a 10 pct pay cut, it only saves £30bio.

Can you imagine a government cutting public sector pay by 10 pct? There would be riots in Parliament Square. Yet it's only a tiny fraction of what we need to save.

How on earth did we let ourselves get into this position......
 
Historically, high oil prices have either caused or significantly contributed to recession. If oil hits $150 then it will likely be followed by the same again in my view.


Paul

Yes but part of that rise is due to fall in value of dollar. If oil is priced in Euros or Yuans a different picture is likely to emerge.

There is also likely to be structural changes in production and input of fuels so I'm not convinced it will cause a recession.

I reckon oil price will have to rise dramatically to meet rising demand.


Either way inflation is pencilled in...
 
I very much agree with mean here (even though it makes me very gloomy about the fate of my BA miles :)). The problems, in most Western economies, not just UK, all have to do with moral hazard in politics and the demographic issues. One more or less palatable solution (which, IMHO, is almost a foregone conclusion) is simply that the raising of the retirement age.

FYG, mean, I remember reading some estimate of the unfunded pension liabilities in the UK being on the order of £350bn. There's also some work done by a scholar at Cato institute that estimates these figures for a whole variety of Western economies.
 
As with all these issues, we lack politicians with the courage to take these decisions. Life expectancy rises by 3mths every year. We need to raise the retirement age to 70 like now! But that's another way of saying we can't afford pensions. But here's the paradox.... there are now lots of old people and they all vote, so politicians don't take this route.

Ah, it's all a mess, I'm going for a liquid lunch now to cheer myself up.
 
Well, you know what they say... If the mountain doesn't come to the prophet, the prophet will go to the mountain. Either way, the issue will be resolved, a winter of discontent and austerity is coming.
 
Well, you know what they say... If the mountain doesn't come to the prophet, the prophet will go to the mountain. Either way, the issue will be resolved, a winter of discontent and austerity is coming.


UK and Germany need 0.5m migrants every year to maintain tax / pension balance...

We have a dying race here...

This is likely to be one of the most significant challenge facing the UK. NHS will be crumbling in another 10/15 years and as oil prices feed into food production (forgive the pun) as people also starve. No food, no heat and no NHS...

But hey guys, the bankers will be nice and warm and well stuffed so we should hold our heads high as we will have rescued them so our plight will not have been in vain... :cheesy:
 
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I think goverment is interested in high infaltion. Why?

The have so large - amount that inflation can help to reduce the minus dramatically. It is an easy way to get the minus lower.
 
UK and Germany need 0.5m migrants every year to maintain tax / pension balance...

We have a dying race here...

This is likely to be one of the most significant challenge facing the UK. NHS will be crumbling in another 10/15 years and as oil prices feed into food production (forgive the pun) as people also starve. No food, no heat and no NHS...

But hey guys, the bankers will be nice and warm and well stuffed so we should hold our heads high as we will have rescued them so our plight will not have been in vain... :cheesy:

Hey! What's the matter with you guys? Always moaning. Look on the bright side of things. We're living longer so we are likely to get to that light at the end of the Eurotunnel.
 
Hey! What's the matter with you guys? Always moaning. Look on the bright side of things. We're living longer so we are likely to get to that light at the end of the Eurotunnel.

Or not, very topical BTW split...;)

Eurostar: passengers tell of 14-hour ordeal

A Eurostar passenger has described how his journey home from Disneyland Paris turned into a "complete nightmare" when he and his family were trapped on a train for 14 hours

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/eurostar/6842790/Eurostar-passengers-tell-of-14-hour-ordeal.html
 
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