Do you believe?

[shadowninja]

Self confidence, desire, self belief, hunger etc etc... all that is definitely required.
One small thing helps as well - Lady Luck

Don't ask me her address!

Is she on the witness protection programme?

 

[Vrothdar]

I'm sorry guys. I just can't hold it in anymore:whistling

YouTube - ? Cher ? Believe ?

 

[bansir]

Mental attitude and self belief in action...
Just watch a game of footy / tennis on the box.

Invariably the player/team that gets their tails up and that can see
and reinforce the possibility of victory dominates the play.

The mental attitude determines motivation, confidence
the energy levels available, everything.

Books on this stuff which I kinda like:
Ignore the quirky titles, just read 'em.

"Think and grow by Rich" Napolean Hill
"Psycho-Cybernetics" Maxwell Maltz

Tip: If you only read them once it's not worth the bother.

Of course, all the attitude in the world won't help if you haven't
done the work to acquire the skills. It's Knowing that you've done the work
that builds your attitude. Not the other way round.
Sorry didn't mean to climb on the blooming soap box. Here, someone else have a go!

Neil

 

[temptrader]

/me waits for temp and n_t to tell us all we must be touched by the hand of god if we are to succeed and no amount of thinking otherwise will help us mere fools who have not been so touched.

This is my last ever post on this site, because then it will be no more. I will entertain you, but not for the reasons you want.

Let us collect the facts:

1) you and firewalker99 have your beliefs
2) you both vehemently defend your beliefs
3) and you both have never posted any live trades - profitable or otherwise, in common with most of the posters on this site

It took me a while to get round to see what Socrates was saying, and I've been like you and the mob against him, but I ask you the following:

1) do you think you'll ever be profitable by listening to all the people here? Even the posts on this thread are dire!!
2) you were bragging about your wonderful new system that you were going to put into action at the beginning of the year, what happened to it? Don't tell me it went belly up too? Or were you finally going to trade real money this time?
3) considering how hard trading it, and all the issues that are discussed to an inch of their lives here by people who probably don't know what they are talking about, do you honestly think success would be just listening to a group of these people in agreement?

nearly all the idiots here are posting out of ego. If this were a discussion on number theory we would know immediately who's talking crap or not. Since it's not and it deals with intangible concepts we get confusion.

Meanwhile the real traders who know what they are talking about, try to help, try to tell you, but you don't see it. And hence the attacks start. And it gets piled on, with more people claiming to be "experts" or "gurus" talking about things that they probably know nothing about, or quoting tedious rubbish from books written by people who obviously can't trade.

Now you have a choice PKFFW, and you too firewalker99. You can continue in doing what you're doing - and eventually get nowhere. Or you can start to listen to what's being said to you by those who CAN trade. Your choice, it's up to you.

 

[PKFFW]

This is my last ever post on this site, because then it will be no more. I will entertain you, but not for the reasons you want.

You think I want you to entertain me? You really need to get a grip on reality.

If you can't recognise a light hearted joke for what it is you need to start taking yourself a little bit less seriously.

Let us collect the facts:

1) you and firewalker99 have your beliefs
2) you both vehemently defend your beliefs

Just as you have your beliefs that you will defend vehemently.

As my mum would say "what's that got to do with the price of beans in Chile?"

3) and you both have never posted any live trades - profitable or otherwise, in common with most of the posters on this site

Having never been interested in whether you post trades or not I don't know if you have. I'm going to assume by your comment that you have.

Just because you can post a trade or two on a bb(profitable or otherwise) doesn't mean you know squat about trading or that you are a successful trader.

So again I ask, what's that got to do with the price of beans in Chile?

It took me a while to get round to see what Socrates was saying, and I've been like you and the mob against him, but I ask you the following:

I was never against Socrates himself. I gave him rep points when he politely(which was extremely rarely) posted something of interest or was thought provoking to me.

What I was against was his egotistical, arrogant, rude, obnoxious and belittling attitude toward anyone who merely disagreed with him much less had the audacity to suggest he may be wrong.

1) do you think you'll ever be profitable by listening to all the people here? Even the posts on this thread are dire!!

I think there may be something posted on here that may lead me in a direction that I have not considered before. Maybe that direction will be profitable and maybe it wont but it will certainly lead to further knowledge. Further knowledge is a good thing in my opinion.

I am not arrogant enough to believe that I know everything there is to know and therefore will not close myself off from any potential source of information.

2) you were bragging about your wonderful new system that you were going to put into action at the beginning of the year, what happened to it? Don't tell me it went belly up too? Or were you finally going to trade real money this time?

I never once bragged about a system. I mentioned I had a method I was confident in trading and that suited my needs and goals. Further to that I only mentioned it in 2 posts if memory serves. Hardly what I'd call bragging.

Since you asked, no it did not go belly up. Yes I am trading it with real money.

3) considering how hard trading it, and all the issues that are discussed to an inch of their lives here by people who probably don't know what they are talking about, do you honestly think success would be just listening to a group of these people in agreement?

Could you please point to any of my posts where I say or even suggest that success would be "just listening to a group of these people in agreement".

I have always stated that I believe success would come from hard work, practice and dedication.

Since we are on the topic of what success would be, I'm still waiting for any evidence at all from you to back up your assertion that you need to be born with some sort of special traders gene(or something of the like) in order to be successful at trading. Just any tid bit of actual real evidence rather than just your belief that it must be so would be nice.

nearly all the idiots here are posting out of ego.

Yes and I am wondering why I am taking the time to reply to one of them but there you have it.

If this were a discussion on number theory we would know immediately who's talking crap or not.

I wondered how long it would take you to work it around to math, your pet subject.

If we were discussing fire fighting techinques or kung fu I'm sure I'd be able to spot who was talking crap as well, so what?

Since it's not and it deals with intangible concepts we get confusion.

Uh no we don't get confusion, we get disagreement.

Just because you and I disagree doesn't mean I am confused one bit about your point of view. It also doesn't mean you are wrong or that I am wrong. It just means we disagree.

One day you will mature enough to realise that adults can disagree and yet neither has to try to force the other to agree with them. Nor does either have to suggest the other is somehow stupid, unintelligent, an idiot or any of the other names you throw about with abondon.

Meanwhile the real traders who know what they are talking about, try to help, try to tell you, but you don't see it.

Well firstly if you are trying to suggest you are a "real trader who knows what they are talking about" then a little more proof is needed. A few trades posted annonymously on a bb doesn't cut it with me. You proclaiming your abundant knowledge and expertise doesn't cut it either.

Also, just because someone disagrees with another doesn't mean they don't "see it". I really do see your point. You believe that only those gifted at birth with the special abilities needed to be a successful trader will ever achieve success. That is your belief and you are entitled to it. You have absolutely no proof your belief is correct though. In fact, real world examples of the vastly different types of people who have all achieved trading success completely refute your belief. But you are still entitled to it.

And hence the attacks start. And it gets piled on, with more people claiming to be "experts" or "gurus" talking about things that they probably know nothing about, or quoting tedious rubbish from books written by people who obviously can't trade.

And yet we are all supposed to bow at the alter of temptrader, the trading expert, and agree with his beliefs even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary? He who hasn't even written a book but rather has merely posted a few annonymous posts on a bb.

Now you have a choice PKFFW, and you too firewalker99. You can continue in doing what you're doing - and eventually get nowhere.

Actually I'm already getting somewhere by doing what I'm doing.

Or you can start to listen to what's being said to you by those who CAN trade. Your choice, it's up to you.

Who? You? But all you've told me is that I need to be born with a special "successful traders gene" in order to succeed at trading. There is nothing I can do about it one way or the other. I'm either born with it or not. So how is listening to you(and lets just for the sake of argument agree that you can actually trade even though that is questionable) actually going to make any difference to me?

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[rags2riches]

positive thought?

The idea of positive thinking influencing your "destiny" [Think & Grow Rich by Napolean Hill has been mentioned already] contrasts with the "lucky monkey in front of a typewriter" school of thought [Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Taleb].

I guess I'll never find out who's right.

 

[Market Wizard]

Positive mental attitude is only one prerequisite for success. As someone said (can’t remember who) A person can change his future by merely changing his attitude.

Many times this does not appear to be the case, the missing link in most cases being clarity of thought. You can have a great outlook on what you may want to achieve, but not knowing precisely how to do it is what will hold you back. There are millions of people all over the world who face difficult and challenging situations on a daily basis in their personal lives; a positive attitude helps the get through to the next day. That is agreed, but to succeed in business requires a little extra help.

I remember a few years back a friend of mine attended one of these internet marketing seminars. He took me along as he had a spare ticket. The content of the course was great; you sat there thinking "yes, I can do this”. At the end of the course the guy offered something which I thought was the one thing missing from all other courses. He offered you the complete step by step process you needed to go from nil to be up and running , I thing there was about 55 or so steps he had outlined CLEARLY.

My colleague decided not to pay that bit extra for this additional service; I chose to take him up on it. For about four months my colleague struggled to CLEARLY define how to go about it, he understood the concept entirely but still was unsure how to proceed, I on the other hand had forged on ahead. His attitude was the same as mine – positive.

Enough about the course. The point being a positive mental attitude will keep you going , yes , but it does not guarantee success, for that you will need to add CLARITY OF THOUGHT. This then comes back to the same old thing, how much do you really want it? I have no doubt that my colleague would have managed to work out his way in the end, as is always the case when you persist with a positive attitude, but it is how long will you persist ?

Many will give up when success could be just around the corner. History is littered with all the great achievers who carried on no matter what, and helped changed the way we live today.

This I think is prevalent in trading the markets. Most of the steps required to succeed require doing something that the average person is not used to, so has no CLEAR idea how to do it. Like planning your learning and planning your trades as an example.

Live it breathe it then achieve it. Clarity comes from total immersion in an idea or concept.

 

[Yokiro]

Wow! This thread has become very interesting and worth a read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. You guys posted some quality material here.

 

[temptrader]

I don't want to reply, but here goes . . .

Who? You? But all you've told me is that I need to be born with a special "successful traders gene" in order to succeed at trading. There is nothing I can do about it one way or the other. I'm either born with it or not. So how is listening to you(and lets just for the sake of argument agree that you can actually trade even though that is questionable) actually going to make any difference to me?

I've been thinking why 95% - 99% of traders fail, and it seems to be that the subject is vast and complex. But no matter. It is my view - and quite a lot of people as well - that some innate talent is required to be successful. All because you "think it" so, doesn't make it so, no more than calling a tail on a dog a leg makes it a leg.

I wasn't referring to listening to the right people to be successful, but listening to them to see what it is that the game involves, and from seeing what the game involves PROPERLY you decide for yourself how far you can go with it, what your limits are. To take an analogy I would say trading is like golf: everyone can play if given the right equipment, time, practice and appropriate surroundings. But only a very few can be exceptional. But you don't have to be exceptional to make a living playing golf professionally though - you just have to reach a certain standard. But even at that level the majority fail.

The tragedy here is that most of the posters and the discussions at hand are not about "golf", they about baseball, or tennis, or rounders etc . . . and some are secretly trying to offer "coaching" services (read vendors and scam artists). Is it any wonder most newbies are confused? They don't even get to learn the basics and just chase their tails all the time with the crap that you and other posters spout.

Positive mental attitude is only one prerequisite for success. As someone said (can’t remember who) A person can change his future by merely changing his attitude.

No, it's not. That's crappy Tony Robbins talk. America laps it up and so do most people here - maybe that's what forums do to people. People who say this have something to sell. History is much more brutally honest. Reality is much more brutally honest.

I am still wondering why most vendors and authors don't trade themselves, and it took me a while to realise that they CAN'T, or that they don't know how, or just that they are not good enough, and they write dumbed down rubbish for the public to read.

In short, PKFFW, I personally think a lot of real traders are laughing with the comfortable thought that there will always be people like you and firewalker99 who want to believe what you want to believe, and create liquidity and cannon fodder for them.:cheesy:

 

[PKFFW]

Firstly, didn't you say your previous post was going to be your last ever on T2W? Now you've gone and made a liar out of yourself.

I've been thinking why 95% - 99% of traders fail,

Why waste your time thinking about something that isn't even true? The number of people who fail at trading is not that high, that is a myth. It is high I grant you, but just simply not that high. Makes for nice ego pumping to those that do succeed to believe they have achieved something 99% of others can't but that's all that number is good for.

and it seems to be that the subject is vast and complex. But no matter. It is my view - and quite a lot of people as well - that some innate talent is required to be successful.

Absolutely some talent is required to succeed. I have never suggested otherwise. Innate talent though? Nope, sorry to dissapoint you but the real world examples of the huge number of vastly different people from different backgrounds with different strengths and weaknesses indicates that some innate talent is not required. Learned and practiced talent is most definitely required though.

Where you and I differ is that you seem to believe that the only definition of "success" is to be categorised as being in the top upper echelon of traders. To be a "genius"(if you will) of the trading world. To me being a successful trader means you make money trading. To you that isn't good enough. Any monkey with discipline and average intelligence could possibly learn a profitable method and make money. So that just wont do will it? How can a successful trader feel all egotistically superior if any monkey could do what he does. Therefore there has to be some other definition and so you bring in this idea of being somehow better than anyone else doing it.

I have never denied that being in the upper echelons of successful traders would take some sort of innate talent. Being a successful trader does not though. Just because you think it must be so doesn't make it so.

All because you "think it" so, doesn't make it so, no more than calling a tail on a dog a leg makes it a leg.

Exactly, just because you think successful trading must take some innate talent doesn't mean it does.

I wasn't referring to listening to the right people to be successful, but listening to them to see what it is that the game involves, and from seeing what the game involves PROPERLY you decide for yourself how far you can go with it, what your limits are. To take an analogy I would say trading is like golf: everyone can play if given the right equipment, time, practice and appropriate surroundings.

Exactly, evreyone can play with enough time, practice and environment. You obviously do understand the concept.

But only a very few can be exceptional. But you don't have to be exceptional to make a living playing golf professionally though - you just have to reach a certain standard.

Now you are really on the right track. You don't have to be exceptional. Many a professional golfer never wins a tournament. They just land in the money, get some sponsorship deals, keep playing the tournament circuit and grind out a living doing something they most likely enjoy. Would that not be considered a success? Or is only Tiger Woods successful?

But even at that level the majority fail.

Absolutely the majority fail. unfortunately you are seeing this as proof of something that it just isn't proof of.

Lets look at this another way.........

Literacy and numeracy skills in most developed countries have fallen significantly over the last few decades. Would you see this as proof that the majority of people can't learn to read and write? Would you even consider this as proof that the majority of those people who have thus far failed to learn to read and write, can't learn to read and write? By your logic the fact someone has failed to learn to read and write is proof they can't learn to read and write. Do you see how flawed that logic is?

I would suggest that the falling literacy and numeracy skills has more to do with other factors such as increased class sizes, disruptive and disrespectful students, poor funding and resourcing of schools etc etc etc. I would suggest the majority of those that can't read and write as yet are not incapable of learning. Rather, they have not, for whatever reason, put in the time and effort to properly learn as yet.

My point being that the fact that the majority of people fail as something simply is not proof that they can't possibly achieve success at it. No amount of you wishing otherwise will change that fact. I'm am truly amazed that someone who claims to have such an understanding of science and logic can't(or probably simply doesn't want to) understand that.

The tragedy here is that most of the posters and the discussions at hand are not about "golf", they about baseball, or tennis, or rounders etc . . . and some are secretly trying to offer "coaching" services (read vendors and scam artists). Is it any wonder most newbies are confused? They don't even get to learn the basics and just chase their tails all the time with the crap that you and other posters spout.

But how is that a tragedy? According to you there is only 1-5% of people who are born with the special traders gene needed to achieve success anyway? So how is it a tragedy if the newbies chase their tails? The ones with the gene will make it and the ones who don't have it wont right? What use is learning the basics if they aren't born with the gene?

You have to make up your mind about which way it is I think.

No, it's not. That's crappy Tony Robbins talk. America laps it up and so do most people here - maybe that's what forums do to people. People who say this have something to sell. History is much more brutally honest. Reality is much more brutally honest.

You talk about reality and then ignore it when it doesn't support your view.

The reality is there are huge numbers of successful traders in the world. They come from many different countries, many different backgrounds, have many different strengths and weaknesses. I would even go out on a limb and say no two successful traders are exactly alike. Yet you persist in claiming that they must all have some sort of special successful traders gene in order to be successful!!

I am still wondering why most vendors and authors don't trade themselves, and it took me a while to realise that they CAN'T, or that they don't know how, or just that they are not good enough, and they write dumbed down rubbish for the public to read.

You take every opportunity to imply you are so intelligent and such a success and yet it took you "a while" to realise this? hhmmmm

In short, PKFFW, I personally think a lot of real traders are laughing with the comfortable thought that there will always be people like you and firewalker99 who want to believe what you want to believe, and create liquidity and cannon fodder for them.:cheesy:

So now you seem to be suggesting that my thought process is mutually exclusive with being a successful trader, is that it? That it is impossible to be a successful trader and still hold the belief that with the right training and work anyone can be successful?

Now I know you are just stroking your own ego. Maybe you should do less stroking and actually trade a bit and you might get better at it.

Cheers,
PKFFW