good idea!
good idea!
tenbobtrader
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Its just absolute proof your a F...kin W...ker and require your head examining
Breaking Rules !
found that when I really excepted the need for absolute control in method and execution and applied myself to the task of getting everything down on paper, demo trade it, re-evaluate, adjust, forward test etc etc
everything in place, the numbers just shout at you to trade the plan as per your own research / forward tested the works ~ to do otherwise is obviously acting outside your and and your families best interest
I only broke my rules once under the above described circumstances and the shock to the system was so absolute I stopped trading instantly and closed my futures account that day
I have still not recovered properly and come to terms with the why, it had nothing to do with the amount of money lost on the day. In P&L terms that days session did not stand out at all, all looked pretty normal
The lack of control of self showed up so absolutely
I do not at this stage know if I will recover / move on or even if I want to, its that absolute
Its just absolute proof your a F...kin W...ker and require your head examining !
I would not recomend it anyway, I would stick to the rules you have decided on prior to a live trading session
solution = ? in the genes maybe, how we are brought up, its not an easy one for sure, repetition did not stop me from stepping outside my own rules in the moment
I would advise would be traders to find out what their limits are
total honesty with self, you forward tested (not just method) before size gets large and any shortfalls prove to be fatal
Andy
going out so unable to respond to post immediately
Breaking Rules !
found that when I really excepted the need for absolute control in method and execution and applied myself to the task of getting everything down on paper, demo trade it, re-evaluate, adjust, forward test etc etc
everything in place, the numbers just shout at you to trade the plan as per your own research / forward tested the works ~ to do otherwise is obviously acting outside your and and your families best interest
I only broke my rules once under the above described circumstances and the shock to the system was so absolute I stopped trading instantly and closed my futures account that day
I have still not recovered properly and come to terms with the why, it had nothing to do with the amount of money lost on the day. In P&L terms that days session did not stand out at all, all looked pretty normal
The lack of control of self showed up so absolutely
I do not at this stage know if I will recover / move on or even if I want to, its that absolute
Its just absolute proof your a F...kin W...ker and require your head examining !
I would not recomend it anyway, I would stick to the rules you have decided on prior to a live trading session
solution = ? in the genes maybe, how we are brought up, its not an easy one for sure, repetition did not stop me from stepping outside my own rules in the moment
I would advise would be traders to find out what their limits are
total honesty with self, you forward tested (not just method) before size gets large and any shortfalls prove to be fatal
Andy
going out so unable to respond to post immediately
Last edited:
HaloTrader
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Melodramatic... ?
Should have kept your account open so that when your ready to come back, you can with ease...
Or is that you done forever? You found out your not made for trading/
tenbobtrader
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Melodramatic ? .............. You decide its your money
Hi Halotrader
Never say Never
I sure think about the game in a different way. Not interested in the intra day stuff anymore. The constant exposure to the market, decision making etc etc.
"Melodramatic... ?"
you can"t be an objective judge Halo Trader, even with that large Crown of yours
you have not walked in my footsteps
I do not think so, if you find evidence that you will at times act outside your own best interests with proper money down / at stake
In this game you are a danger to you and yours
PERIOD !
THE END
solve problem and no its solved or pack the game in
an old post from t2w ~
"Who are you when you trade ?
________________________________________
Ive seena lot of posts about tips and tricks in the trade but few that relate to the biggest issue of all ....... YOURSELF
Of far more importance than anything else it is YOU who are the focus of the markets. The markets dont like or dislike you they are just there and the markets exist to move money between accounts.
If you set stops too short, keep modifying your stop loss, feel that the market is against you or that you are in a fight with other people, or perhaps want revenge for the losses youve sufered... or you still take impulse sucker trades without any notion of the value of your entry/exit and total possible loss IN ADVANCE let me assure you you will oh yes YOU WILL LOSE!!!!
All the above issues are unresolved problems that YOU have to confront. The best way to deal with that is to have a written plan and EXECUTE EVERY signal to the letter like a machine..after which you can then test your results after 3-5- days and only then perhaps modify your apporach. If you arnt doint these things then I assure you you will lose!!!! PERIOD because you have no means of measurement, no means of control and your lack of discipline will kill your account.
You either approach the markets like a machine who measures plans and executes without emotion inc euphoria or you will LOSE!! It takes around 3 weeks minimum to learn this habit of discipline to trade as well as stopping completely any arbitrary entries that send your money to disciplined trader accounts until it begins to become ingrained in your Psych. Most traders dont get this far before they blow out because they thought the markets represented freedom to them but the paradox is they require diligence, discipline and a scientific approach which by the way can be helped greatly by using automated platforms if you know yourself to be weak at sticking to your executions and end up chasing the market...another sucker trade. Are we all getting the message? Traders are not born they are made..and those willing to commit to discipline during the learning phase will most likely end up winners.
Most people simply dont want to face that level of discipline thats why they lose by impulse trades...sucker trades that have no feedback value whatsoever .
you/we have bigger issues to confront and those are first a commitment to be aware of yourself and how and why you cut corners. You must always know how much you will lose before the trade begins... this also helps to keep emotion out of the market.
read Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas and forget for now any intense study of the markets.. more knowledge of the markets is NOT what will make you successful.. Knowing yourself and why you do things and then committing to discipline is the path to success...
commit to consistency... this is what I have learned from my bitter experience to date..please please get this message.
By Paul"
Andy
perhaps a better answer here
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/64714-tenbobtraders-journal-7.html#post822154
Hi Halotrader
Never say Never
I sure think about the game in a different way. Not interested in the intra day stuff anymore. The constant exposure to the market, decision making etc etc.
"Melodramatic... ?"
you can"t be an objective judge Halo Trader, even with that large Crown of yours
you have not walked in my footsteps
I do not think so, if you find evidence that you will at times act outside your own best interests with proper money down / at stake
In this game you are a danger to you and yours
PERIOD !
THE END
solve problem and no its solved or pack the game in
an old post from t2w ~
"Who are you when you trade ?
________________________________________
Ive seena lot of posts about tips and tricks in the trade but few that relate to the biggest issue of all ....... YOURSELF
Of far more importance than anything else it is YOU who are the focus of the markets. The markets dont like or dislike you they are just there and the markets exist to move money between accounts.
If you set stops too short, keep modifying your stop loss, feel that the market is against you or that you are in a fight with other people, or perhaps want revenge for the losses youve sufered... or you still take impulse sucker trades without any notion of the value of your entry/exit and total possible loss IN ADVANCE let me assure you you will oh yes YOU WILL LOSE!!!!
All the above issues are unresolved problems that YOU have to confront. The best way to deal with that is to have a written plan and EXECUTE EVERY signal to the letter like a machine..after which you can then test your results after 3-5- days and only then perhaps modify your apporach. If you arnt doint these things then I assure you you will lose!!!! PERIOD because you have no means of measurement, no means of control and your lack of discipline will kill your account.
You either approach the markets like a machine who measures plans and executes without emotion inc euphoria or you will LOSE!! It takes around 3 weeks minimum to learn this habit of discipline to trade as well as stopping completely any arbitrary entries that send your money to disciplined trader accounts until it begins to become ingrained in your Psych. Most traders dont get this far before they blow out because they thought the markets represented freedom to them but the paradox is they require diligence, discipline and a scientific approach which by the way can be helped greatly by using automated platforms if you know yourself to be weak at sticking to your executions and end up chasing the market...another sucker trade. Are we all getting the message? Traders are not born they are made..and those willing to commit to discipline during the learning phase will most likely end up winners.
Most people simply dont want to face that level of discipline thats why they lose by impulse trades...sucker trades that have no feedback value whatsoever .
you/we have bigger issues to confront and those are first a commitment to be aware of yourself and how and why you cut corners. You must always know how much you will lose before the trade begins... this also helps to keep emotion out of the market.
read Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas and forget for now any intense study of the markets.. more knowledge of the markets is NOT what will make you successful.. Knowing yourself and why you do things and then committing to discipline is the path to success...
commit to consistency... this is what I have learned from my bitter experience to date..please please get this message.
By Paul"
Andy
perhaps a better answer here
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/64714-tenbobtraders-journal-7.html#post822154
Last edited:
Yamato
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It's a very complex subject.
I have been developing this theory that we deceive ourselves and only notice we're "breaking" our rules when breaking them causes a loss, whereas instead we're breaking them all the time, even when we win. So far it's clear, but there are details and implications that I don't fully understand.
Something else that needs to be said is that, in "discretionary trading", rules are flexible (or else it wouldn't be called discretionary trading), as opposed to automated trading, where they are fixed and univocal. So it actually makes sense that we interpret our rules (according to our discretion). As a consequence, when we lose, it's not because we "broke" a rule, but because it wasn't the right time to "break" it. But it's not even correct to speak of "rules", because as I said in discretionary trading there aren't univocal rules, but only general principles. But then even this is not true - I'll talk about it later. However in general it is true, because discretionary trading is very close to the concepts of "instinct", "intuition"... and we make money because of that, and not because we're following rules. If we were making money because we blindly followed univocal rules, then we should automate everything, and shouldn't be doing anything at all.
As a summary of everything I said above, the problem is not our lack of discipline (it doesn't make sense to follow rules if we don't know them to always work), but our lack of knowledge of the markets (we don't understand enough about them to always win, or even just to be profitable).
And, I know it's not related to the topic, but let me add that our understanding of the markets will very hardly increase, because it's hard to elaborate in your own head all the statistics that you have seen in your trading career and evaluate where the right stoploss should be and so on. So the way to go in my opinion is automated trading. Because the most you can understand about the markets is that by instinct you (99% of traders, including me) cannot figure them out. What you can do is back-test and find a system that works. Yes, systems can figure out the market. And if you applied such systems you would be profitable by trading manually (but not "discretionary"). On top of it, it will be very hard in terms of patience and attention for a human to apply a trading system. Then there are those traders that have figured out the market and are profitable with discretionary trading, but they are a very small minority, and I don't know anything about them or how they do it.
Oh, another thing. Also, if you set any fixed rules as a discretionary trader, you have to be careful what rules you set, because some may stop your gambling addiction but others may stop your trader intuition, and those will be the rules you will be wanting to break the most (but you will not know if it's the gambler or the rational trader in you trying to make you break them). So if you do have fixed rules, after all, this may be the answer to your question about why you are "breaking" your rules. You're not sure if they work (breaking them before has brought you profits). And it will be hard to find out if they work, because that's the way it is with discretionary trading (you can't back-test, and you don't even know/remember which rules you followed and worked in the past, in your whole trading career). And if you knew exactly what rules worked, then it would make sense to automate everything.
Sorry if I couldn't synthesize well enough, and not explain clearly enough, but I definitely spoke of the main ideas I have on the subject, even if in random order.
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